.45 ACP LOAD ?

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Loco

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Hi Guys,

New at reloading .45 acp. and i'am wondering if someone could tell me why my rounds are very dirty and not very accurate. I'am using a winchester 230 fmj-rn with 4.2 bullseye with a .470 taper crimp with a O.A.L. of 1.260. The rounds shot fine but seemed very dirty and were not very accurate.
 
Hmmm.... sounds OK. A bit light, but OK. I'm not a Bullseye fan, but millions are.

I like WST, WSF, AA# 2 & AA# 5 myself for clean loads.
 
My "play" load for many years is 4gr. of Bullseye with a 230gr. cast bullet. I don't crimp but just iron out the bell. This load proves very accurate for me but Bullseye certainly leaves a lot of residue. It's just the nature of the beast. Doesn't bother me as it cleans up easily.
 
I shot about 50 rounds using red dot 4.5 grains to be exact and it shot pretty clean...I am going to go to 4.7 and 4.9 and see how clean that shoots. Accuracy was mediocre but reasonable.
 
I would work up the load, 10x 4.2, 10x 4.4, 10x 4.6 10x 4.8, 10x 5.0 and see what shoots best.
 
M1911's s are hard to shoot accurately, much more than my revolvers, and you have not stated your group size. And I am assuming you are using a M1911. Your problem may be your pistol.

I have used about ten pounds of W231 and found it an excellent powder, but I think the accuracy edge is to Bullseye. I have found that in my M1911's, a 230 LRN with 4.5 grains Bullseye averages exactly 800 fps and is a very accurate load.

As for being dirty, well I always clean my pistols up. I use 10W-30 Mobil one as a lubricant, and automotive oils do a good job of dissolving residue, my cleaning is mostly wiping off the oil and any lube residue. Followed up with a layer of GI bore cleaner, and then that is wiped off. The surface is clean after that. I have not shot any "clean" powders, even though I have tried some that were claimed as "clean", cleaning time was about the same.
 
Yes Slamfire you got that right. I'am shooting a Goldmatch. You brought up a good point about maybe it's the gun. Don't think it's the gun but it sure could have been me. I'am just going to work the load and see what happens. As far as Bullseye being dirty i really don't mind it like Burrhead said it's easy to clean. Thanks guys for all your posts.
 
Loco, as for the dirtiness you experienced with Bullseye, well, you're not alone. Most reloaders consider it to be about as dirty as can be. I do, too, and I fired off many a pound of it. In recent years I've tended to the more "modern" replacements that have come along, but just last December I ran off a few boxes of 230gr Rainiers with Bullseye for a felt-recoil test.
Yup, it's still dirty.
But most reloaders who use it think it's about the most accurate pistol powder there is, too. I think it's fair to say that's pretty true. While I'm no benchrest shooter-type, I don't find any .45ACP load to be more accurate than that which I get with Bullseye.
Now, I don't mean to be disputatious, but I also know that in my case, and in just about everyone else's I know, the 1911 platform is the easiest to shoot accurately of all centerfires. Even my wife, who dislikes guns and shooting, does her very best shooting with one. Even more convincingly, two of my clubmates who are extreme Glock-guys (and I mean really extreme) will grudgingly admit they shoot straighter farther with a decent 1911 than with their wondernines, and both actually own 1911s (stealthily) for that exact reason.
There isn't a better trigger in full-caliber pistoldom. If you've got a Colt Gold Cup National Match, as I believe you say you have, it should not only have a very-good to excellent trigger, it should also be very, very accurate. Yes, there are a few dogs out there, but not many. I had one in the '70s that was insanely accurate right out of the box, and I never shot a more accurate centerfire gun, with the exception of a Model 52 .38 Smith I once had and my friend's GCNM Midrange .38 wadcutter 1911.
If you're thinking it's the gun, then maybe it's in need of a good cleaning (sometimes the chambers get cruddy and a regular bore brush doesn't get it all), or maybe it's time to have a smith look at it.
But if it's the ammuntion, consider a couple of things-
Are your primers seated consistently and well? Primers seem to be near the top of any reloading problem list. They're important, so check on that.
Is the powder measure you're using good? Are the charges consistent? It's not as important, but it matters.
Are you seating the bullets and setting a nice taper crimp properly?
Those Winchesters are good bullets. Bullseye is the target powder of choice for many, many shooters (and is the civilian version of the powder the .45ACP cartridge was designed around). And lots of folks consider the Gold Cup to be way up there in accuracy, and ease of shooting accurately.
Something's amiss, so keep looking.
Meanwhile, I use Winchester WST (Super-Target), one of those modern replacements, and find it accurate but much cleaner than Bullseye.
Bill
 
Thanks for the great post Cherryriver. I hope it was just my shooting that was amiss but like you said i'll keep on looking. I'am shooting a Kimber Goldmatch and it's very accurate. Right away i took it out on my rounds and never thought about my shooting. I'am just going to load some more up and go have some more fun. Thanks again Bill.
 
Hey, Loco, fun IS the point, whether it's chasing down some technical thing, or just plain shooting.
Yep, the Kimber Gold is held in very high regard, too.
Have a great time chasing.
(And watch that primer seating!)(Don't ask how I know!)
Bill
 
Walkalong

Really want to try some W-231 just can't seem to find any local. All the shops in my area sell Bullseye and Unique. I guess i got to order some on the web.
 
Loco. I have the same problem finding W231 locally. I have used it before for .45s and it worked very well. Local availability was the killer for me.

If all that is available to you locally is bullseye or unique and bullseye is too dirty, unique will be "out of the frying pan into the fire". Unique is a fine powder but is one of the dirtiest I have tried. It is very consistent and meters well though.

Have you any access to universal? I use it for 9mm and it is clean burning. I have loaded some .45s with universal and plan to try them this weekend. I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
When I started getting serious about getting the Distinguished Pistol Medal, I started working up loads for my hardball gun using Bullseye and the Speer 230 grain FMJ RN bullet. 4.0 of BE gave me a really pleasant load to shoot out of it (SA 1911A1) but it did not seem very accurate. I checked with the local guru and he explained that you need to drive that 230 grain bullet a little faster to get the accuracy for the 50 yard slow fire part of the NM course. I worked up some loads and found that 4.5 grains of BE did the trick, with a 14 pound recoil spring in the pistol rather than the 16 pound factory spring. I could still shoot the ligher loads for the TF/RF part of the course, but it's just easier to shoot the one load that works all the time and the 4.5 load is really accurate.
If you check on the Bullseye forum, they recommend cleaning a match pistol (.45 ACP) every 200 rounds, so the comparative dirtiness of powders is not really an issue.
And the load has worked...only 10 points to go for Distinguished. :)

Navy Vet & Swift Boat OIC
 
Hazzard

My local gun shops shock what they want to stock and that's not much. I guess with the price of shipping powders and primers and the weight of bullets they just don't want to shock any reloading supplies.

CDRT
Thanks for the info. I'am going to work the round up to 4.5 and have some fun.

Thanks again guys for the posts
 
.45 ACP Loads

I have tried everything from 3.0 grains to BULLSEYE to 5.0 grains of BULLSEYE, since buying my first 45 ACP in 1967.
The load I shoot now is 5.6 grains of Winchester 231. One manual says 700 fps and another says 850fps. I shoots good for me.
 
Old Domenion

I can tell you what a 185 grain JHP is doing from a 5" Colt .45 ACP if that helps.

5.5 gr W-231 800 fps
5.7 gr W-231 850 fps (my favorite load)

:)
 
A good many Winchester and Hodgdon powders come from the same source: Primex. It is often stated that W-231 and HP-38 are identical. They are very similar, but not identical. Compare load data and you will find that W-231 is a tiny bit slower. At the same charge, HP-38 will have slightly higher pressure, so it should not be substituted for W-231 without reworking your load from a start charge. Better yet, contact Hodgdon who sells both. The only powders formerely sold by both companies that Hodgdon will tell you are identical are HS-6 = W540, HS-7 = W571. The same statement comes up with H414 and W760. Very similar, but not Identical. One reason a load manual that lists pressure ratings for a given charge, is worth owning, i.e. Lyman.;)
 
Aren't Win231 and HP38 (Hodgdon) the same powder?

They are the same bulk powder base as purchased from the powder manufacturer but they are blended to a different burn rate. The data isn't interchangable, HP38 is a bit faster than W231 and data for HP38 shows consistenly lighter charges by a couple 1/10 grs for identical bullets.
 
Bullseye is one of the pistol,powders that it would be difficult to be without. It is extremely versatile in a slew of calibers with diffrent bullet weights. In my experience it has always been a super accurate powder. However is is a bit smoky/smudgy. If you want a cleaner burning powder try WST or American Select.
 
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