5.7x28 for defensive carry

[ifit]

Any defensive carry pistol is loud...heck even the .22lr. but defending your life and others with it...being loud shouldn't be an issue

 

[barnbwt]

...and all the guys shooting 357 Mag, SIG, and various +Ps reply; "What?"

TCB

 

[Buck13]

I shoot plenty of .357, full-on 10 mm and even a little .44 Mag +P, and I find the 5.7 to be a whole nother animal. It sounds more like a .223 carbine in the next lane, to me.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I do not see the point of this cartridge.

Think of it as 5.56 but in a true pistol. It works the same way by tumbling.

 

[Jim Watson]

Without getting into a ballistics debate, the main reason I will not be interested in a FiveseveN is the manual of arms. Specifically, the safety catch location.
If I were going to shoot it all the time, I would learn to use it. But I would not be comfortable flip-flopping between it and a 1911.
Same reason I did not keep my P7. A fine gun, but I could not have a "rotation" with it and a conventional action.

 

[WinThePennant]

I think the OP's original idea is sound, and the thought even occurred to me.

What pistol holds a lot of rounds, shoots flat out to 100 yards, and can rapidly spit bullets with very little muzzle flip?

FN 5.7 is the ONLY pistol that (I think) fits the bill to perfection. So, if you are concerned about getting caught in a Paris style attack (odds are low, but that's outside the discussion point), then I think the FN 5.7 would be the BEST pistol for the job. Next up would be one of the Glock 10mm pistols, but you have to put up with muzzle flip and reduced capacity.

 

[barnbwt]

"Without getting into a ballistics debate, the main reason I will not be interested in a FiveseveN is the manual of arms. Specifically, the safety catch location."
Fair enough. The MOA is pretty clever and intuitive, though (we've just been ruined with a century of Browning-derivative thumb actuated safeties is all) considering how everyone is trained to index their finger right where that safety lever is. It's so clever, I'm not sure why they didn't do something similar on the P90, and went instead with a rolling cross-bolt safety thing that isn't the easiest thing in the world to get used to.

"I do not see the point of this cartridge."
Lightweight, high capacity, capable of punching armor. Since the NATO deal is clearly dead & gone due to HK interference, I do not know why FNH doesn't retool the parameters to a more civilian stance; lightweight, compact, high velocity frangible. Instead, they have been working harder at making the round perform poorly on soft armor than making it suited for self defense.

The blowback nature of the guns that complicates reloading is, and always has been, the Achilles heel. As DI AR15 conversions (not the AR57) in 5.7x28 have shown, there is plenty to work with as far as a locked breech action that would allow a greater pushing of the envelope & easier reloading. But FNH wisely kept the guns simple in order to keep weight & cost down, as these were paramount for NATO's consideration.

A 15rnd "officer" grip & 4" barrel model shooting long/skinny copper or aluminum fragmenting rounds at the brass's pressure capacity (probably 30gr @ +2200fps) with finger or thumb safety options would sell well. Figure out a way for it to safely run a compressed charge telescopically, and you can probably get some significant gains above that. A savvy FNH would also be looking a smooth or even squeeze bore variant that harness even more of the small cartridge's potential. But most of this stuff can't be done with the size constraints a blowback requires to contain the breech pressure.

TCB

 

[PabloJ]

i really dont get why people get enamored with the FN five seven round.. to be quite blunt its internal ballistics are complete crap.. sure its a high velocity, accurate round, but it hits barely better than a .22lr.. you can carry 20 rounds, but youre going to NEED 20 rounds to do the same job a 9 mil or 45acp can do with half that... and lets not forget the only pistol really chambered for it is the FN five-seven.. overweight, very bulky, very long length of pull, and generally not a good pistol, surely not for self defense

if you just like the idea of a high velocity bottleneck cartridge, get a 7.62x25, get a 30 luger, get a .22 TCM and you have something exponentially better than 5.7x28mm

The only reason people get enamored with the 5-7 is because in their mind it can penetrate body armor when used with ammo not available to most of them. It is perceived to be badass just like owing a pit bull terrier or riding Harley Davidson w/o wearing a helmet.

 

[White35]

Think I'll dive in here...I would definitely consider the Five Seven for self defense, for the previously listed reasons, lightweight, high magazine capacity, accuracy, low recoil, It's an FN, and it definitely does enough damage. After all a center of mass shot is a center of mass shot, and a leg shot is a leg shot, no matter the caliber. The only reason I wouldn't prefer the FN is if Glock made one in 5.7x28, the "armor piercing" ability is cool, but I feel like most baddies going in armored up would probably use steel plates, and 5.7 ain't going to cut it for that (pun intended) Would I conceal carry it regularly? Pretty sure no, I'd stick to my G19, If I was a cop, or open carrying all the time, then yea I would definitely consider it, but I don't plan on open carrying anytime soon.

 

[justin22885]

a leg shot is just a leg shot?.. do you have any idea what happens to the leg that is shot when a larger caliber bullet smashes through the femur like a sledgehammer?... no matter how many drugs theyre on they simply would no longer be capable of walking or running.. a leg shot isnt always just a leg shot

 

[usp9]

This thread makes me wish that HK had gone on and produced the HK P46 pistol, so we could argue about that round and pistol too. I can dream...

 

[Zerodefect]

The only reason people get enamored with the 5-7 is because in their mind it can penetrate body armor when used with ammo not available to most of them. It is perceived to be badass just like owing a pit bull terrier or riding Harley Davidson w/o wearing a helmet.

You sure about that? SS190 was readily available. You snooze, you loose.

Go grab some plate steel and load some 45gn Barnes TSX solid copper bullets into 5.7 and shoot a p90 next to a 9mm MP5. Even .357 Sig will outperform 9mm at such.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=717169

 

[Zerodefect]

 

[White35]

Justin, you can play the "there's a crucial artery running through your pinky finger, hit that and he's bleeding out in 2 seconds" game all day, aim for his leg if you want to. With your logic I should carry FMJs in any caliber and just aim for the femur, also, men without legs can still fire a weapon, shot placement is crucial. Any bullet, within reason, striking bone can cause it to fracture violently.

 

[burk]

To me a better alternative is to carry a 19 or 26 with larger mags. I carry a 19, but my back up mags are all 17's. The extra length doesn't effect printibility of my carry gun, but if I have to reload I get a couple of extra rounds. If you really want lots of back up ammo, you carry a 26 with 33 round mags for back up. As far as effectivness in SD pistol the newer hot 9mm loads like the 135 grain +p hornady Critical Duty's are far more effective in real world scenario's were shot placement is likely to be compromised over any available 5.7 round

 

[strambo]

After all a center of mass shot is a center of mass shot, and a leg shot is a leg shot, no matter the caliber.

A "center of mass" shot is otherwise known as a gut shot, not terribly effective at rapid incapacitation.

I think when most people say "center of mass" in a defensive setting they probably mean "center of chest" which is where the heart lies...the only piece of anatomy in there that matters (ok, aorta, vena cava and spine but you can't ever count on a spine hit at the back of the torso with a handgun).

 

[C0untZer0]

The larger mag argument can also apply to the Five-seveN. A larger mag for the Five-seveN puts its capacity at 30+1

 

[justin22885]

wow, some of you people are so obsessed with magazine capacity that youd go with a .25acp for self defense if you could get 25 of them in a mag

 

[seeker_two]

Only problem I have with the 5.7 is that ammo isn't available from at least two of the Big Three ammunition manufacturers. If Federal and Winchester started making 5.7 ammo, it might be worth it.

 

[Overkill870]

I'm not a fan personally. The ammo is obscure, uncommon, and expensive. It doesn't have much of a following in the reloading world, which is very important to me. The terminal performance is not great out of a pistol (out of a p90 it is much more respectable).

It is a neat pistol and I can see that having a well made, light weight, accurate, flat shooting, low recoil, high capacity pistol being quite fun. But there are better options for defensive use.

I also don't understand the obsession with magazine capacity in defense pistols. Especially when it means making major sacrifices in other areas. Although I certainly respect anyone's decision to do so.

 

[barnbwt]

I thought Fed did make a ball ammo, but it is off limits (too much jacket)? Fiochi makes the SS197 and American Eagle stuff (I also think)

TCB

 

[Havok7416]

I thought American Eagle was Federal. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Zerodefect]

I've always considered Am Eagle and Blazer to be Federal ammo.

CCI, Blazer, Blazer Brass, Federal, and Speer are all owned by ATK. But I think some of those are different factories.

 

[WinThePennant]

I'm not a fan personally. The ammo is obscure, uncommon, and expensive. It doesn't have much of a following in the reloading world, which is very important to me. The terminal performance is not great out of a pistol (out of a p90 it is much more respectable).

It is a neat pistol and I can see that having a well made, light weight, accurate, flat shooting, low recoil, high capacity pistol being quite fun. But there are better options for defensive use.

I also don't understand the obsession with magazine capacity in defense pistols. Especially when it means making major sacrifices in other areas. Although I certainly respect anyone's decision to do so.

I can't think of another pistol that shoots flat out to 150 yards, has relatively zero muzzle flip, and can hold 20 rounds in a standard magazine (30 in an extended mag). If you find yourself up against a Paris style attack, having to engage a terrorist at 100+ yards, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find something else up to the task as well as the FN 5.7.

Now, you could say that you'd prefer an AR or AK pistol. But, those can draw unwanted attention from law enforcement should they be discovered during a routine pull-over. An FN 5.7 just looks like a regular pistol.

Sure, the round has its own set of problems. But, in a Paris or Mumbai style attack, I can't think of another pistol better suited for such an encounter. It's not called the "Anti-Terrorist" pistol for nothing.

 

[justin22885]

i cant think of a single instance in this reality where youre actually going to win a claim of self defense shooting at people 150 yards away... defensive carry, legality pretty much dictates VERY close range, and point blank, out of a pistol, 5.7x28mm sucks anyway, its going to suck x10 at 150