7.62 Nato surplus ammo corrosive?

[anapex]

Ok so I just picked up some surplus 7.62 NATO ammo for my 308 Garand. My question is, is this stuff corrosive or not? The headstamp is ZV 7.62 69 and it looks like it's berdan primed. Any help would be appreciated. Also another question is if it is corrosive how fast do I need to clean the barrel after shooting? Next couple hours or a day or two?

 

[JohnKSa]

I've not heard of any corrosive 7.62 NATO.

 

[Pumpkinheaver]

I don't know of any surplus 7.62 nato that is corrosive either.

 

[hksw]

Dang, don't have my regular text source for headstamp codes at the moment.

Are you sure it is NATO? (Should have a circled cross emblem also.) Only thing I can find concerning ZV at the moment is Czech, and IIRC, they were on the other side of NATO in 1969.

 

[JohnKSa]

You're right, ZV is Czech...

You're also right about the commie thing. That's very strange.

According to my reference the headstamp is correct, it would be ZV with a year.

anapex,

Are you sure this is 7.62 NATO (.308). Something seems very odd... Could you have misread the year?

 

[SMLE]

It was actually fairly common for East Bloc countries to make 7.62/.308 for export. LOTS of nations used FALs G3s, FN-MAGs and other 7.62 arms.

Since this IS East Bloc ammo, it very well could BE corrosive. No big deal, just clean your rifle properly and be sure to include the gas system.

Every M1 rifle that was fired in WWII was fed corrosive ammo and it's rare to find one with a bad bore or gas system as a result.

I have a large collection of Lee Enfield rifles and until I got them, most never met a round of non-corr. ammo, yet all have good to perfect bores. I have fired thousands of rounds of corrosive ammo and never had a problem.

For those folks who might not know what "corrosive" means, it only means that the primer residue leaves salt in the bore. Salt attracts moisture and that causes rust. Clean out the salt and no worries. Good ole Hoppe's #9 will do the job or a dose of boiling water followed by a normal cleaning.

 

[P95Carry]

SMLE .... important distinction here (IMO) .... water (water-based) BEFORE Hoppes!!



Headstamps??

http://cartridgecollectors.org/headstampcodes.htm

 

[Ky Larry]

When shooting any unknown ammo in a gas operated gun,pay particular attention to the gas mechanism. If these aren't kept clean of corrosive matter, you may wind up with a single shot. It's a good idea to treat all ammo as corrosive and throughly clean all you guns after firing them.

 

[Mike Irwin]

By NATO specification anything made in a NATO country and bearing the NATO stamp will be noncorrosive.



"Good ole Hoppe's #9 will do the job..."

NO IT WILL NOT.

Hoppes is a nitro powder solvent. It is not suitable for use in removing either blackpowder fouling or corrosive primer fouling.

Hoppes contains no water, and as such is ineffective at dissolving the nitrates and chlorates that cause rusting through hygroscopic action.

 

[*8*]

Good call Ky Larry, treat all surplus import ammo as "corrosive".

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Berdan does not necessaly mean corrosive."

That's absolutely correct.

"It is my understanding that no .308 or 7.62 X 51 ammo has ever been made with corrosive primers."

Probably not, but I wouldn't trust some of the stuff that's come out of China over the years. Better safe than having a rusty L1.

 

[SMLE]

P95Carry, we're in total agrement;

or a dose of boiling water followed by a normal cleaning.

Mike Irwin, I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you regarding Hoppe's #9's effectivness on corrosive priming.

1. I'm pretty sure it DOES contain some water. I will grant you may be correct, BUT...

2. The label on MY bottle touts its effectivness on corrosive prining.

3. I have used it as my sole cleaning solvent for all my rifles and I have NEVER had an issue with rust, even after shooting a large amount of Paki surplus .303 and WWII Brit .303, Russian and Chinese 7.72x54R, 8mm Mauser and several other old military calibers. 20 years of impiric observation should count for something.

And while NATO specs are for non-corr. Many non NATO countries made 7.62x51 using the same primers as their own ammo. There was some Czech ammo that came in a few years ago that was DEFINITLY corrosive, as a couple of my friends found out the hard way after the gas systems in ther SA rifles rusted up.

And I second the statement that Berdan priming does not automatically mean corrosive. I have a large quantity of South African .303 that is both Berdan and non-corr. WWII and eariler US military ammo is Both Boxer primed AND corrosive.

 

[Grump]

Every M1 rifle that was fired in WWII was fed corrosive ammo and it's rare to find one with a bad bore or gas system as a result.

All the way up to 1952 or so--most corrosive was phased out by 1954 or 1955 (some old FAQs on USGI ammo will answer this more specifically). The good-condition gas systems are partly because the gas cylinders and the piston welded on the end of the op rod were both hard stainless steel (that's why finishing a gas cylinder is such a booger to do). Good condition is also partly because we trained out troops well, had decent bore cleaner and plentiful supplies, and had cleaning stuff available in every unit.

Gee, no wonder the gunnery sergeants were so pissed at the early M16 experience! Not enough cleaning gear, no stainless or even chrome-lined barrels at first, and a barrel so narrow water wouldn't drain out all the time. Sheesh! Seems like rust resistance anywhere close to the gas system and its out-gases is a very good idea (and that McNamara disaster was with NONcorrosive primers--can you imagine putting chlorate salts in that mix??)

I still vote for the second patch being water-wet after firing corrosive.

Edit to add: That's also where the "THEN clean it once a day for a total of 3 days" rule came from. The salts tend to pop out of the steel for another day or two.

 

[Mike Irwin]

SMLE,

No, I can't dispute your results, but I can't call them anything other than extraordinary with a big jug o'luck thrown in.

I'm still trying to track down an MSDS for Hoppes, but as far as I know it's still primarily a deodorized kerosene with other oil/solvent components thrown in -- no water.

If there were water in it it would separate out and the entire mess would have to be shaken to get the water into an emulsion.

It's also interesting to note that if Hoppes No. 9 were an effective blackpowder fouling solvent, Hoppes No. 9 Plus would then seem to be a redundant product, as it's specifically touted as a black powder fouling cleaner.

As far as the label touting its effectiveness on corrosive fouling...

All I can say to that (absent of being able to find my stinking bottle of No 9!) is that WD-40 touts itself as being a great lubricant and protectant for firearms and other complex mechanical devices such as fishing reels.

Not a chance in hell of that being true. WD-40 stinks as a lubricant/protectant.

 

[SMLE]

Mike, Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that regular #9 was good for black powder fouling. Sorry. I should have said; my "modern" rifles. I do use hot water to clean my BP stuff.

But, I do still stand by the sucess of Hoppe's #9 on my cartridge weapons, even in very humid conditions where there is lots of moisture to combine with those nasty salts.

Still, if anyone has doubts, just dump a gallon of boiling water down the bore and scrub it good. That's how all me Lee Enfields were cleaned before I got them and they all have good to perfect bores.

 

[TODD3465]

I know that some Syrian made 7.62x51 is corrosive.

 

[cheygriz]

Mike,

Hoppe's contains ammonia. Ammonia is effective in neutralizing corrosive salts. (at least theoretically) I still pour a tea kettle of boiling water down the bore after shooting corrosive ammo, but that's just the way I learned to do it long ago, and I am slow to change. (LOL)

 

[Mike Irwin]

Cheygriz,

Hoppes No. 9 doesn't contain ammonia, does it?

At least I've never detected the smell of ammonia in it.

The No. 9 copper remover? I have a bottle of that and it's about as foul as Sweet's.

The only reason that ammonia will "neutralize" corrosive salts is because ammonia is HEAVILY cut with water -- it has to be or it's simply too brutal and toxic to work with, and it's the water that neutralizes the corrosive salts.

Most household ammonia is, IIRC, a 12% solution.

My Father had a blue printer that used ammonia as a developer. It used a 28% solution, and it was just freaking horrific if it was spilled.