Baiting

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35 Whelen said:
If a person wants shoot birds over a dog and it's legal, I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with them calling it a "hunt".

Sound familiar?

35W

P.S- I use a German Shorthair Pointer AND I have a corn feeder on my property.
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You most certainly are entitled to your opinion and have every right to express it here, just as I am. Let me ask you this tho.....how many times have you seen the classic scene of a pointing dog etched/engraved on the side of a fine sporting gun? How many times have you seen the photo/drawing of a hunter still hunting/sneak hunting towards a nice animal on the cover of a hunting book/magazine? Now..........how many times have you seen the picture/drawing of a person sittin' over a bait pile with an empty feed sack next to him/her on either? There's a reason and most folks know why.

P.S. I have a Drahthaar, but only a dog feeder.




ZeroJunk said:
I crept up to within 70 yards of a mediocre 10 point and a doe the other day. I finally decided to give him a lesson in living and started trotting toward him waving my arms in the air. Hopefully he will pay more attention and live through this season and maybe be worth taking next year.
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Zero...was this the same property, you described explicitly that was unhuntable without bait because one could not even crawl thru it without needing a blood transfusion? ....and you RAN thru it with your arms waving wildly? NOW....that's huntin'!

Again, I know not of others hunting area, but you folks don't know mine either. Some say the large expanses of deep swamp/bogs on the large areas of public land I hunt have deer that are inaccessible also without the use of bait. That is their opinion...not mine. Some also claim the same in the large areas of clear cut that quickly clog themselves solid with briars and sticktites amongst the trash left behind by the loggers. Again...this is their opinion not mine. We all have the right to our opinion and are allowed to hunt within the law using our own ethics. I never said baiting was cheating, not when it's legal. I never said baiting was unethical, just not my kinds of ethics. Folks get upset thinking I'm trashing them personally, but then have no problem trashing me and my ethics. It's just a difference of opinion. Not a reason to go ballistic. As I said before, I support anyone's form of hunting, even if I don't agree with it, as long as it's legal in their jurisdiction. If the law and the local ethics accept it as a viable means of taking game animals, so be it. But I don't have to like it, nor do I have to bow to intimidation(and the condescending posts) by those that don't agree with me.
 
I think too many people have a vision of the world that is limited to the world they know. For instance... as the poster from Alabama stated, you typically can't stalk within any shoot-able distance to a deer in the Southeast for two very localized reasons. As he said, you're going to wind up in some one else's shooting lane because around here there are not many vast expanses of land like there are out west (we didn't have a homestead act) and if there were, the average hunter wouldn't own them. More importantly, though, is the terrain. We are almost completely deciduous forests and swamps... please try stalking a deer while walking on bubble wrap or corn flakes. That's what it's like walking on a bed of nothing but dry leaves. So, we pretty much have to shoot from a blind or stand, even a natural blind works, but we have to get hidden and let the deer come to us. I've hunted for years without bait, and this year I started baiting... it didn't make a difference... I still only see deer on known travel routes, or VERY close to them. People like us see that as hunting because it's the only way hunting is done by most... especially those of us that are almost always on public land, where you can go from hunter to accidentally hunted very quickly if you start walking around quietly. I have tried stalking... and I think i did pretty well, getting very close, but as soon as I started getting into range, crunch, a leaf is stepped on and off they go. I think more people need to travel and see the world outside of their microcosm.
 
'Shooting' deer over feed plots or bait is not hunting plain and simple. I can't stop you nor will I try. But please do not come into work on Monday morning telling me what a 'great hunter' you are for bagging a doe with this years fawn. Its NOT hunting its closer to FISHING. I have no issue with finding an area deer like and clearing trash around an area to open fire lines. Then start HUNTING waiting patiently concealed in an area to shoot supper.
 
Milamber........"Its NOT hunting its closer to FISHING" ???? really? you are obviously not a bill fisherman or a blue water fisherman...
 
Zero...was this the same property, you described explicitly that was unhuntable without bait because one could not even crawl thru it without needing a blood transfusion? ....and you RAN thru it with your arms waving wildly? NOW....that's huntin'!
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It was as a matter of fact. It has a 230KV transmission line running pretty much through the middle of it. I got down out of my stand early because I'm not much in the mood to kill a deer anyway and it's about 1/2 a mile up to the truck. I saw this deer cross about 400 yards away. I didn't think he could see me beacuse the sun was directly at my back on the horizon. I eased on up the power line and the doe came out about 100 yards away. I dropped down on one knee, but that got uncomfortable pretty quick, so I just stood up. A few minutes later the buck came out. He was fairly wide and had a good beam, but the top tines were just short. He would look at me ocasionally, but deer don't seem to make any sense out of a man they can't smell and isn't moving. The contractor reworking the power line had planted some grass to meet some EPA erosion requirements I suppose, and the deer were browsing on that.

Oh No, BAITING.

Anyhow, every time they were both with their head down I would ease up a few steps.


Look, if you want to feel like your hunting is some great challenge beyond the ability of others, it suits me.
 
I'll bet the hypocrites are the ones hunting in places like South Central PA where the deer damn near jump into the back of your truck and slit their own throats. (I've hunted that area many years so yes I know how they are)
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Ahh, I did forget about that. That is definitely NOT hunting, either.

Now, if you're confronted with one of these suicidal deer and you've attempted advanced lifesaving techniques and made all possible efforts to prevent the loss of cervine life -- and the deer does expire on the operating table despite your heroic efforts ... then you can claim a sporting kill. Now that's hunting!
 
You most certainly are entitled to your opinion and have every right to express it here, just as I am. Let me ask you this tho.....how many times have you seen the classic scene of a pointing dog etched/engraved on the side of a fine sporting gun? How many times have you seen the photo/drawing of a hunter still hunting/sneak hunting towards a nice animal on the cover of a hunting book/magazine? Now..........how many times have you seen the picture/drawing of a person sittin' over a bait pile with an empty feed sack next to him/her on either? There's a reason and most folks know why.
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Congratulations. You did a bang-up job of COMPLETELY avoiding my question. So again, please tell me how it is that hunting over bait IS NOT hunting, yet having a dog find your game (in other words the dog does the hunting for you) IS hunting. Again the dog is doing the hunting, the person behind the dog(s) is nothing but the operator of a shotgun, a shooter, not a hunter, right? By the way, your reference to artwork is watery at best, but means nothing.

I strongly suspect those who make ludicrous statements such as "Deer trained to come into bait piles are used to human scent." have never hunted near a feeder. Statements like this show just how little some know about deer.

I keep a corn feeder set out a little over 100 yds. in front of the house. The wife, kids and I like to watch deer at it, but we never have shot one under it. From where I'm sitting now, if I lean back a little, I have clear view of it. It's 4:32 p.m. and there are no deer a the feeder, nor will there be prior to dark, and there haven't been any out during daylight hours in over a month. They usually hit it an hour or so before daylight, then they're gone. Why? I have no idea, but one thing is certain; having a feeder set up in an area inhabited by deer doesn't mean deer will come.

35W
 
'Shooting' deer over feed plots or bait is not hunting plain and simple.
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Care to point out anything approaching a 100% success rate when shooting deer on a food plot or bait? I've hunted the edges of fields, food plots, and livestock feeding areas for the last 10 years and in that time I've only seen 3 deer total and shot 1 deer in those areas. That deer I got was walking up a wooded county drainage ditch that ran through the soybean field my stand was looking over. I got a shot on him at 65yds with my shotgun.

Its called hunting because you're not guaranteed to get a critter everytime you go out. Same goes for fishing with bait. Its called fishing, not catching, for a reason.
 
With the exception of purists, hunters by and large are creatures of convenience and tradition. Outlaw either method and hunters will adapt and find other methods to harvest game.
Example- Make baiting illegal and hunters will plant feed plots in order to improve the chances of harvesting game. Make dog hunting illegal (tradition) and hunters will change tactics in order to harvest game. Neither one of these practices cost effective. Corn, feeders, vet bills and dog food cost money.

Make night hunting for deer, thermal imaging systems, laser aiming devices, remote operated camera systems and other devices legal for hunting and someone wil do it. More power to you. My only complaint is when any method infringes or interferes with my right to hunt.

Hunt any way that is legal. Just keep it ethical. Hunting over feeders is one of the preferred methods of hunting on private property in NW Florida. Just keep it legal by not shooting a bear in the gut just because he is eating your deer corn. It happens more often than you think in this area.
 
Quote:
I'll bet the hypocrites are the ones hunting in places like South Central PA where the deer damn near jump into the back of your truck and slit their own throats. (I've hunted that area many years so yes I know how they are)
Ahh, I did forget about that. That is definitely NOT hunting, either.

Now, if you're confronted with one of these suicidal deer and you've attempted advanced lifesaving techniques and made all possible efforts to prevent the loss of cervine life -- and the deer does expire on the operating table despite your heroic efforts ... then you can claim a sporting kill. Now that's hunting!
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Sam, we better hush up or someone may offer us both jobs as comedians!!!
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You know...I also forgot to mention the purest form of the "stalk." No true stalk hunter could claim to be "fair" if he's barged into the deer's daily routine and slaughtered it with so crude a device as a gun or bow. The true stalk hunter exercises a little more persistence. Stalking his prey armed only with patience, he knows not the limitations of the "hunting season," but tracks his query month after month, year after year throughout a long and fruitful life, and harvests that deer, cradling it's head in his lap, as the last breath leaves its body as it succumbs to the rigors of old age.

To do less is unsporting and uncivilized.
 
If you want to be sporting...take after the turtleman.

From this weeks episode while attempting to mask his scent..."I want you to take a chicken and rub it all over me. I know it's funny, but you gotta do it".

Now that's sporting.
 
is it "real hunting" if you sit within range of a well used deer trail? I mean.. it's a deer trail, the deer use it all the time. How can that be real hunting if you know the deer walk down it all the time?

back to baiting though...I was sitting in the pop up last weekend and had 10 or 12 deer at the feeder. Wind was in my favor...just waiting for muy grande to walk out. The wind shifted just slightly, and within 2-3 seconds, the deer were out of sight... gone. And they didn't come back. I guess they didn't read this thread and know that since they were eating corn, they were supposed to be trained to be happy with human scent... stupid deer, they don't even know the rules.... as established here online...
 
is it "real hunting" if you sit within range of a well used deer trail? I mean.. it's a deer trail, the deer use it all the time. How can that be real hunting if you know the deer walk down it all the time?
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I don't know. You know those savages without firearms had to chase buffalo over a cliff or wander aimlessly about in wolf hides to find animals to eat.
 
Okay, I grew up hunting and I grew up hunting in and around the area the OP is from. Black Warrior, spent a lot of time in there. I like the Sipsey Wilderness best, I hope it is still there... Lots of good stalking grounds in there for sure.

Anyway, when I was there, I think baiting was illegal. On the game reserves, they would lease land to farmers to grow corn on and the stipulation was that they had to leave so many rows for the game. Both to feed them for winter and to supply hunters with good hunting grounds. What prevented most hunters from using the actual fields as bait fields has to do with the fact most fields are near roads and you have to be so far away from the road to shoot.

That leaves hunting in the woods around the fields. That means going in off seasons and watching the deer and finding their trails, tracks and signs, and then going back and either stalking or using a stand to get them on their way to and from the fields.

A lot of folks down there have old school hunting habits. For instance, I was taught by my father who was taught by his uncle and grandmother who in turn were taught by their family and so on... All the way back to the Cherokee and Scottish and Irish immigrants. As such, my whole family used the stalking method. Almost extinct these days. Baiting was done at natural salt licks and in and around fields, but these people were hunting to feed their families up until after WWII and completion of the TVA. Today it isn't necessary, and they made them illegal I believe because it dramatically lowered the populations. Some states my not have a problem with this and still allow it (and AL may have changed...).

I see the hunting shows, they always use blinds and tree stands and have state of the art cameras and gear to find the dear. Chemicals and hormones and baits. I guess you can call it hunting... But I prefer a good stalk still where staying downwind is paramount. You won't get as many, it takes more skill, but if feels good when you do. Considering one or two would supply us with all the red meat we need for a year, why harvest more?

And I guess you can equate it to this, which I am SURE will garner some resentment but I don't care, is that hunting with bait, cameras, chemicals, hormones, and a tree stand, is akin playing a game at a lower skill level, whereas stalking with just camo and a rifle is akin to playing a game at a higher skill level. Major league vs. Minor.

If it wasn't, then they wouldn't be able to take city kids out there who've never been in the woods and bag a deer. It took me years to learn the skills necessary to get close to game without them running, how to walk up on them. I'd think "real hunters" would subscribe to the more difficult skill level as their skills improve, but I cold be wrong. Flame away.
 
don't you guys get it... it's ALL an unfair advantage.... rifle, pistol, bow and arrow.

unless you're chasing down game on foot and strangling it to death, you are using some tool that provides an advantage. Get it it already....
 
I have kept a feeder running year round for nearly 10 years and hunt it on a regular basis.
I only take as much meat as I will consume in a year 2 or 3 deer and hogs as needed since they are legal year round on private property here. At the cost of feeding all year every year my deer cost me about 600.00 each so I dont have any guilt over it.
In return for the meat they get fed through the lean times ensuring a higher survival rate. So the herd in my area is stronger than most in the region.
Baiting can be a good thing or a bad thing as with all things it comes down to the ethics of the hunters that do it. It is really up to the individuals who participate in legal baiting to show some good moral judgement. You can only call it killing instead of hunting if you can guarantee a 100% success rate. I wish I could acheive 100% just for the fuel savings alone but alas nothing is ever perfect.
Now baiting hogs is a different story altogether if left undisturbed you can set your watch by the ones on my place. 15 to 20 minutes before the timer starts slinging corn they are there milling about. If you shoot one they go nocturnal for a day or two and start returning to their routine pretty quickly.
Good huntin
T
 
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I'm enjoying reading the short posts. The long ones are too time consuming to read. :scrutiny:.

So many opinions, so little time.

Nobody gonna change their mind from what they read here anyways...me included. :banghead:
 
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Nail on the head by cocked and locked "Nobody gonna change their mind from what they read here anyways...me included. " Edited the spelling or damn auto correct error.

Someone mentioned ethics - WOW add a new server we will be here a while;)
 
That there are equal rights to an opinion in no way means that all opinions are equally valid...

Ambushing over bait is common among predators--and that's not opinion, that's fact. It's been that way ever since there have been predators and prey.
 
all I know.... between about 5 feeders on one pasture, I have trail camera photos of 35 deer that are at least 3.5 years old, and at least 8 points. to date, sitting around 20 times, I have seen 7 or 8 of them. there is one deer that is very tame around a feeder for whatever reason. maybe he's blind or messed up in the head. The vast majority of the deer are just like deer anywhere else. If they smell you or hear you, they're not coming in.
 
I've always found that sitting in a blind is boring--for me. That's why I'd much rather stalk and play sneaky-snake. I've been quite good at that and quite successful.

But I have sat in blinds of one sort or another, and occasionally one where there's a nearby feeder. Sorta nice when it's windy and cold. I don't like windy and cold, not even a little bit. :(

It's all just hunting, to me. Been doing it for some seventy years. I've considered the ethics and morality stuff for darned near that long, once such notions cropped up in my thinking.

And so I don't see any difference between putting out bait as compared to sitting on a hillside above a spring or stock tank. Bait's bait, whether man-made or the Good Lord did it.

Heck, just watching people has me figuring that patience is as much of a skill as sneaky-snaking. Probably harder come by. :D
 
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