Baiting

[hardluk1]

Sam 1911, dam , Those words were just beutiful. truly.

 

[Ankeny]

Bait's bait, whether man-made or the Good Lord did it.

I don't consider a mechanical feeder placed expressly for the purpose of luring game animals to be the same as a cool fresh spring created by God. But hey, just because I have an opinion doesn't make it valid does it?

Can anyone tell me if SCI, Pope and Young, and/or Boone and Crockett consider hunting over bait fair chase? Just curious.

 

[Lloyd Smale]

I see we have a few hypocrites in this thread. Basically, as a couple of others have kind of danced around in saying, If you hunt ANY known food source, I.E. next to or in between a corn field, soybean field, clover field, alfalfa field, OR if you hunt in, or close to, a stand of Oak trees with acorn mast falling, then guess what,,, You are hunting over BAIT! Period. No if's and's or but's about it. If you are smart enough to figure out that a deer eats a certain type of food in a certain area and at a certain time, you are hunting over bait.

While the TRUE definition of bait is using a certain food or lure to entice an animal or fish to come to a certain location, one may also discern the definition to be, using a natural food source to pattern the movements of a specific game animal. If you hunt a water source, you are hunting over bait as well. If you are hunting over ANY natural source that has caused a specific pattern of a game animal, you are hunting over bait. Say what you wish, but before you go saying there is no skill needed when hunting over bait, try hunting in South Texas for white tail without cutting a scendaro or putting out a feeder. Cudos to anyone that can successfully tag out deer without them. Same goes for MANY locations in the US. I'll bet the hypocrites are the ones hunting in places like South Central PA where the deer damn near jump into the back of your truck and slit their own throats. (I've hunted that area many years so yes I know how they are)

I agree totaly. No differnce in hunting your dads farm field then hunting over a pile of apples or hunting in a area that has a bunch of oak trees. Thing i really hate is other people trying to impose there idea of how hunting should be onto everyone else. Most anti baiters are people who have access to farm land or other areas with natural bait. They just dont want others not so fortunate to put a pile of apples on the border of there property and shoot deer that they think they own.

 

[kyle1974]

B&C and P&Y do not have any rules about hunting over a feeder.


What makes them the authority on hunting ethics?

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

SCI will take pretty much any deer with very few limitations on how or what methods they were harvested. They will take High Fence tame deer from canned hunts (no I don't mean the good ranches that have 100's to thousands of acres fenced. I mean the ones in a 20 acre enclosure that was put in there for the "hunter" to go kill) <-- said that to let all know I am not flaming the high quality large acre fenced hunts. The one thing I do like about SCI is they give credit to the deer for every single inch of antler growth unlike P&Y and B&C which subtract inches for retarded things.

Pope & Young allow deer taken over feeders. There are some that argue about the feeders that have battery operated casters saying that they are an "electronic devise" but as of yet no deer has been excluded because of them.

Same for Boone & Crockett.

kyle1974, P&Y and B&C were established years ago as a group to help maintain our hunting heritage and keep ethics alive in the hunting of big game animals. For the "trophy" hunters, they have this strict rule base to keep them from using unethical means to harvest deer. Kind of keeps the "rich fellas" from doing the raised in captivity tame deer canned hunt like many deer that are in the SCI record books.

 

[kyle1974]

Pope and young doesn't allow any entry if you use a luminock on your arrow.... Reasons for being founded and reasons to still be in existence aren't always the same. I don't agree with canned hunts either, but they do not distinguish between 20 acre pens and 20,000 acre high fence ranches. There are a lot of high fence ranches out there that were high fenced by default from neighbors high fencing around them.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

lol I didn't mean to imply that they were perfect. I too find a LOT of their rules to be idiotic to put it mildly.

 

[kyle1974]

Oh yes...I agree. I think they need to review their rules. High fence makes a difference, but I hate the thinking that all high fence is "canned". Most of the HF ranches in south Texas are far bigger than a deer's natural range.

 

[Flintknapper]

Poor... crowded high fenced deer....sigh!

Kyle1974 wrote:

Most of the HF ranches in south Texas are far bigger than a deer's natural range.

Exactly, in fact….there are a slew of Ranches in Texas where 10,000 acres is just a pasture!

http://www.endgame.org/landlords-100.html

The Callaghan Ranch comes to mind, I’ve hunted it many times. Depending upon what “pasture” you hunt….you might have to drive nearly 30 miles from the camp-house to get to it….seeing nothing along the way….but a few cross fences.

For those not familiar with the term “Section”, one section is 640 acres (or 1 square mile). A SINGLE 10,000 acre pasture …is over 15 square miles (if laid out square). Most people don’t commute to work each day that far!

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Easy there Flint. I was not in any way busting on the QUALITY high fenced places like most are in Texas. I was referring to the little 20 and 100 acre crapholes where the deer are placed in there a few hours before the "hunter" is to arrive and bag his "trophy" that SCI will allow in their books.

 

[d2wing]

Baiting is illegal here. I was a little shocked at my first exposure to deer leases and hunting over feeders. But everyman has to decide for himself what is sporting and fair chase, and if you are going to abide by the laws in your state. Local opinions and laws and needs do vary. I see a big difference between waiting at a feeder and near a field that is not a food plot for deer but others see it as the same thing. To me the scouting and sneaking is a good part of the hunt and I take pride in it. Not everyone gets the same chance to hunt that way. Even in this state hunting traditions and what's legal varies by region.

 

[Art Eatman]

"...the little 20 and 100 acre crapholes where the deer are placed in there a few hours before the "hunter" is to arrive..."

Where are these? Has anybody ever actually seen one? Or heard of it from a real person who actually has seen one?

I've read of a very few, in the news, but there's generally an uproar and the operation is quickly shut down.

However many exist--and even just one is too many--they seem to be not worth mentioning when talking about hunting. Kinda like bringing up Yugos when talking about cars.

 

[ZeroJunk]

I can tell you that a lot of guys in the east only have permission to hunt 20 acres or less, and there are no fences anywhere around here a deer can't hop over that I know of.

Somebody tell me how you are going to hunt a 15 acre plot with nothing to separate it from everything else except some corner stakes.

 

[kyle1974]

Ive never seen a 20-50 acre high fenced "ranch" outside of breeding pens, but i have seen some HF operations that are a couple hundred acres or so. Typically they are more into exotics moreso than whitetails, but they are out there. Personally not my cup of tea, but it doesn't bother me...keeping me up at night. as long as its legal, I congratulate the people instead or doing my best to rain on their parade.

 

[lowerunit411]

hmm..ruttnutt.com check out their "guaranteed" hunts that are kept..."confidential"....not Texas but, well you decide.

 

[Ankeny]

Most anti baiters are people who have access to farm land or other areas with natural bait.

That probably varies from region to region. I think a lot of folks who are opposed to baiting probably come from states where baiting is not legal at all. For that matter, there are a lot of hunters in Wyoming who feel hunting farm ground is not "really" hunting. It's really all about ethics and belief systems. Oh, that and lack of understanding and intolerance.

 

[heeler]

^^^We have a winner!!

 

[ForumSurfer]

I remember one old timer who told me salt licks and corn piles just aren't right. That's not hunting.

Of course he said this right before he climbed into his tree-stand overlooking a freshly plowed sweet potato field.

I have no problem with baiting. Hunting lands around here are getting smaller and smaller.

The people that do annoy me around these parts are the dog hunters who never get both sides of the truck off the road and never stray farther than 10 feet from the truck. Makes one wonder exactly what the clean mud boots and clean over sized tires are for...

 

[Sam1911]

Maybe there should be a dualistic system of hunting licenses.

Meat Hunting: License is $5 and is good for 5 years. Season runs from October 1 to March 1, inclusive, 24/7. Any form or manner of harvesting that is not expressly cruel or dangerous will be lawful. "Tagging" or checking shall be limited to turning in the head (complete with antlers) at your local DNR check point. All other portions of the carcass are for the use of the hunter. Wanton waste or avoidable wounding and loss of any animal shall be a crime punishable by forfeiture of hunting privileges for 10 years and a $10,000 fine.

Trophy Hunting: License is $1,000 and is good for one week. Season runs sun-up to sun-down, alternating Tuesdays and Thursdays throughout the months of November and January. Methods of taking game shall be limited to single shots rifles or shotguns of modern make, repeating firearms listed as C&R eligible, or antiques, as well as longbows. No bait, no stands, no decoys, no calls, no blinds, no fences, no dogs, no camo, no hunting within 1,000 yds of a field that has been used for agricultural purposes within 5 years, or within 1,000 yds of standing or flowing water, or within 1 mile of any motorized vehicle. ... Oh, and you can keep the horns.

Seems that would help keep the peace...

 

[Flintknapper]

lowerunit411 wrote:

hmm..ruttnutt.com check out their "guaranteed" hunts that are kept..."confidential"....not Texas but, well you decide

Yes, NOT Texas.

Their “guarantee” is the hunt (or any hunt) be kept confidential.

Finding and killing the animal on 300 acres…presumably is UP TO YOU. I imagine…the structure of the enclosure would dictate your chances.

A mostly barren area of 300 acres would certainly expose the animal.

An enclosure 6’ wide by several miles long…would pretty much insure you’re going to see the animal too, but if it is normal…wooded area, you’d still have to work for the Deer unless its tame.

In any case, let’s post what they actually guarantee, which is the hunt itself and your privacy.

http://www.ruttnut.com/pages/high-fence-hunts.php

NEW: Starting in the fall of 2008 Ruttnut Guide Service will be offering High Fence deer hunts. In addition to our already popular Free Range Hunts, we at Ruttnut want to make sure that your stay with us is a productive one.

By offering our guests "like you" the opportunity at a High Fence Hunt. You can be assured that you are going home with that trophy of a lifetime.

You can hunt in an all hardwood preserve, or a pine preseve. These are pristine preserve's with you and the animal of your choice.

Our High Fence Hunts include "Your Choice" of many different options from which you can pick from. Depending on your preference you can let your imagination run wild. Do you want a Pope & Young buck at 125 or 130 or would you like a Booner surpassing the 180 to 190 mark? You decide. It's all possible with Ruttnut Guide Service.

All of our hunts are totally confidential.... When you are hunting with Ruttnut Guide Service, our hunts are kept 100% confidential. Guaranteed.

If you want to see your photo on our website let us know and we will be glad to showcase you with other hunters but only at your request. We will not sell your name to marketers.

Our preserve is 300 acres.

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Flint, little off the track here but it is very easy to look up the canned hunts to which I referred. In Google search, simply type into the search "100% Guaranteed success white tail deer hunt" and you will see a LOT of them pop up. For ANY place to 100% guarantee success, well you figure out the logistics for that. You have hunted deer and hog almost as long as I have so you know where I am going with that.

 

[JohnBT]

I think a few folks need to look up the meaning of the word bait. According to these folks, dairy cows eating grass in a pasture are eating bait. HA.

 

[Sam1911]

I think a few folks need to look up the meaning of the word bait. According to these folks, dairy cows eating grass in a pasture are eating bait. HA.

Well, if you're planning to HUNT them, sure! Not to mention, that's FENCED LAND!

What self-respecting hunter would shoot a cow under those conditions?

 

[MCgunner]

This year marks my 46th year to hunt deer, both with bow and gun. I figure I am entitled to my opinions based of my experience without having to have folks that don't know me call me names because they don't agree with my level of ethics.

Well, lessee, I shot my first deer at age 11. I'm 59 now, that makes 48 years. Wow, 2 up on ya and I ain't even counting walkin' around with my grandpa at age 10.

I'm not calling you names, just figurin' your ethics are that of a Yankee that's never hunted south Texas brush country. When we secede, you can keep your Yankee ethics and stay up there out of harms way. We might just bait Yankees down here someday.

J/K...of course

I hunt how I can. If I can spot and stalk open country, that's how I prefer it. But, in heavy brush, I take a stand and on MY place use a feeder. I don't own the King Ranch, just a few acres next to a big ranch's fence. You can't see too far to spot anything and the cover is too dense to stalk it even if you did. But, then, the good thing is my black powder rifle is all I need there, no 1000 yard shots possible.

 

[MCgunner]

Quote:
You folks that think feeders aren't ethical, i guess you're just going to quit hunting when you can't get around like a youngster anymore?


Yup. I'll give up my hunting long before I sit in front of a feeder.

Suit yourself. I wanna go like a good friend did, heart attack in his deer stand, died doing what he loved to do. Be less traumatic on the wife than if I went doing what I REALLY like to do. I love my waterfowl hunting even though I "bait" 'em with decoys, but it's tough hunting on public land. I can see the end of that someday, just have to pay someone to take me to a blind in the bay, I reckon.