Bobo's pocket auto comparison chart

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I commend you for a job very well done. May I suggest that you include the 3", Officers size .45 ACP. My Kimber Ultra carry II is almost exactjy the same size as my Skyy CPX-1 and my Charter Undercover .38 Cal Snubby. I carry the Kimber as a pocket gun much of the time. Thanx for your work.
 
tegemu,

Thanks for the kind words.

The Kimber pistol you refer to is a beauty! Unfortunately, it is too large to be included in the chart. I went to the Kimber web site and couldn't find any Kimber model that would fit within the parameters of the chart.

The specifications on the Kimber web site for the UltaCarry II you mentioned are:

Specifications: Height (inches) 90° to barrel: 4.75
Weight (ounces) with empty magazine: 25
Length (inches): 6.8
Magazine capacity: 7
Recoil spring (pounds): 18

You will note that the length is 6.8". The chart has guns less than 6" only.
I might add that there are a few guns that are exactly six inches in length, and those are not included in the chart either - I had put in a cut-off somewhere.

Bobo
 
FEG SMC's

Could you add the FEG SMC pocket pistols? There are two different versions. One chambered for the .380 and one for the 9mm Mak.
These are really nice CCW pistols.

RC
 
Czechollector,

I did a Google search on "FEG SMC" and didn't get much usable information.

Is there a manufacturer or distributor web site? Can you get me a good side view photo and all of the relevant specifications or point me to this information? They guns must also fit within the chart's parameters, and are presently being manufactured.

Bobo
 
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Bersa 380 mags

Hey everyone, I'm Josh & I'm 30 yrs old. I just bought my mother a Bersa Thunder 380 for Christmas as a carry gun cuz she just got her concealed weapons permit. I wanted to buy a couple extra mags for her but they were sold out so I was wondering if any of you know where I could go to find mags for the Bersa Thunder?
 
sig 220

any thoughts on a fair price for a sig 220, nickel slide, night sights hogue grip. its in great shape, slight holster wear.


Please post this question in autoloaders forum - it is not relevant to this thread topic
 
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Suggestion

Hi Bobo,
Thank you for this chart! Excellent work and I'm sure it consumed a lot of your valuable time.

Suggestion: To limit the size of the chart and make room for future expandability, perhaps you could limit it to only firearms that are still currently being manufactured and those which are not "junk" guns (for lack of a better definition). I realize the second part is totally subjective and you would obviously be the one to make the final call (it's your chart!) but IMHO, you could eliminate Cobra and Jiminez.
I.e. then when the new Skyy micros come out in the next few months, you would have room for them.

Just a thought.
 
The chart is great! It really makes it easy to 'visualize' before a new gun purchase.

If you ever get the chance, I think a Semmerling LM4 would be a nice addition. If for no other reason than to show folks how far the pocket pistol has come (it's a 70's design)...and how far it has to go! (The specs are almost identical to the Rohrbach, but it's 45ACP!)
 
Those Kel-Tec widths sure do seem inflated. The slide/grip isn't nearly that wide. I guess you're measuring the max width + the width of the mag release? If you're going to use those kinds of methods, you should probably include a separate number for slide/grip width vs. the mag release width.

Not being fussy. I'm just saying, for example, showing the P-11 as 1.3" wide when the slide is 1.0" wide just doesn't give an accurate idea of the size. Most people would look at that and think a P-11 is wider than a Glock 26. I mean, the ridiculously thick Glock 45 ACPs are listed as 1.27" wide, and you're showing the P-11 as 1.3"

Or at least just make it clear that your width figure is NOT the slide width.
 
tostada,

What you say about more accurate and consistant measurements is correct.

I believe all measurements should be made the same way as I stated in post #14 of this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org./showpost.php?p=2179905&postcount=14
Then we would not be comparing "apples and oranges".

All the sizes on the chart are as given by the manufacturer. Some manufacturers may include all protuberances and some may not. Unfortunatelly, I don't have any way to actually measure all the guns myself so I have to use the manufacturers information.

I can't say for sure how each particular manufacturer measured their guns. So I can't even make a general disclaimer as to slide width as you suggested.

Bobo
 
Bobo said:
All the sizes on the chart are as given by the manufacturer.
Click to expand...

Kel-Tec P-11
Overall Length: 5.6" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 5.9"
Height: 4.3" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 4.4"
Width: 1" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 1.30"

Kel-Tec PF-9
Overall Length: 5.85" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 5.9"
Height: 4.3" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 4.4"
Width: 0.88" from kel-tec.com, your chart says 0.98"
 
Marshall,

Thanks for clearing up the difference in manufacturer's specifications and my chart information.

In my last answer to tostada I said that all my information came from manufacturers. That was a misstatement, I actually got my information from manufacturers AND owners, as is stated in note #1 in my chart.

I don't recall who gave me the correct numbers for the P-11 (it may have been you, Marshall). I do remember one owner that gave me the correct numbers for the Kahr guns. The overall lengths that Kahr had were totally wrong. It was not Overall Length as they stated it was only the Slide Length on their web site and in their catalog.

I know that the listed length for the PF-9 that was originally listed on the Kel-Tec site was wrong and someone gave me the correct number for that also.

The bottom line is - the numbers on the chart are very accurate for overall size and weight.

I have been trying to keep up on the pricing also, but that is tough to do. I would have to constantly check all the manufacturers web sites, and hope they are up to date (which they usually aren't), or constantly e-mail them for pricing up dates, which I am not inclined to take the time to do.

I would certainly appreciate any new or better information including pricing that anyone wishes to share so I can keep the chart as accurate and current as possible.


On this same vein, I found out recently that High Standard who produces the AMT .45 Backup that I show on the chart now has many more calibers available for the AMT Backup. Their site information is incomplete for the information I would need for my chart. So I e-mailed them a couple of times and they provided me with some additional information but not everything I need. I e-mailed one more time on 3/5/07 asking them to fill in the blanks, but so far they have not replied. I would really like to add these guns because they have a couple of them in unusual calibers (.380 Super and Cor-Bon 400).

I'm not sure if adding these guns would be a service or a disservice to those who view the chart. If High Standard's quality and speed of response to my e-mails and the inconsistency and missing information on their web site were an indication of the quality of their products and customer service, I for one would think twice about buying their products. Even so, just to make the chart as complete as possible I would like to add the complete AMT Backup line.

Bobo
 
mini-revolvers

Hi Bobo,
I know you're challenged on your chart for space but another revolver that might be interesting to put on there for size-comparison reference would be one of the NAA mini-revolvers ... those things are tiny!
:what:
 
I've seen that swiss mini-revolver ... now THAT is small! :eek:
But I wonder what the penetration of it's ammo would be? ;)
 
under six inches..

are these miniature pistols even legal I was under the impression they were not.
saturday night specials derringers and the insanely small autos.
snubbies are just short barrel really and generally less a hammer, I don't see them being miniature.
I can't remember were I heard it or read it.
 
Tinmancr,

All the guns on the chart are legal in most states, also derringers and snubbies are legal in most states.

Very few states (California and Massachusetts are two of these states) have a list of which guns are legal. Some of the guns on the chart are not legal in those states.

I don't know for sure, but I thought that just about every handgun (except full autos) were legal in Alaska.

You should always check your state and local laws just to be sure.

Bobo
 
are these miniature pistols even legal I was under the impression they were not.
saturday night specials derringers and the insanely small autos.
Click to expand...

Huh? :confused:

Why would you have a problem with any of the weapons on Bobo's chart? Do you have something against allowing citizens to carry defensive weapons that fit into their lifestyle?

I carry a Kahr PM9 (one of those "insanely" small autos) in a pocket holster every day. It allow me to exercise my right to self-defense while wearing any clothes that I desire. if I didn't have the funds to afford a Kahr, I would hope that something like a "saturday night special" would be available within my budget to allow me to do the same.

It is not the weapon, none of them are "insane".

(Oh, BTW, I like your sig.)
 
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