Bush to focus on illegal immigration

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The whole idea of a "guest worker" is a crock. This country was built by people coming here to make this their home and build a better life. It is very sad that the concept of obeying the laws, working hard, and assimilating, are no longer politically correct. Now we expect you to flout the laws and come anyway, so here's the deal: Come here temporarily, don't assimilate, send money home, then when your time is up, just obey our laws and head on back home when we ask you.
OK W, say for the sake of argument that is not "amnesty" in your dictionary, where's the benefit to this country?
 
el dinero se habla aqui

OK W, say for the sake of argument that is not "amnesty" in your dictionary, where's the benefit to this country?

"This country," to the elites, is just a figure of speech. America is what business calls a profit center, nothing more.
 
OK W, say for the sake of argument that is not "amnesty" in your dictionary, where's the benefit to this country?

The only benefit to America is that its president can pretend a.) he's taking action, and b.) it's action that is for America's good. In all other respects, it's an abject failure to enforce the law, an abject failure to secure the nation's borders, an abject failure to respect the will of the people, and a sterling success at passing the buck to the next administration.

By the way, what was that about the "lesser of two evils"?
 
We whine and complain about illegal immigration, and then when it gets some attention, we still want to somehow bend it into a Bush bashing opportunity. If the administration responded to political pressure, it wouldn't get any credit for doing so. That simply wouldn't do. There would have to be some other excuse to be critical.
. . . . .because Maximum Leader and the rest of the ruling class has no credibility left. The problem has festered long before Jimmuh Carta let Castro empty psycho wards. It has really begun to stink during Bush's term. The only reaction is to simply ignore the problem while the taxpaying class simmers. So now out of the clear blue Maximum Leader wants to do something. One really stupid question: "Why Now?" Why not later? Better yet, why not 4 years ago? What has recently changed which makes action better?

Simple answer. Elections coming up. The republican party has its . . . .caught in its zipper. The pain is sharp and intense. It realizes there will be political hell to pay if something substantive is not done. Democrats could well run the table in '06 and '08 if they would appear to do something. Problem is Democrats are no better than republicans. Classic example of 2 party politics--Incumbent and Challenger Parties.
 
obviously these matters make it frustrating and make most people want to bow out and not even bother to vote... but it is your god given right... vote third party... be it libertarian, or whatever other party you may choose... don't stay silent and just let it be. may not seem like it may make a difference, but enough of a disenfranchised voting minority may someday show the lack of support of the two party system.
 
His speech today was hilarious. It's like he just got in office.

Some gems

"Securing our border is essential to securing the homeland." - What has his administration been doing since 9/11?

"I have a solemn duty, and so do the members of the United States Congress, to protect our nation, our Constitution, and our laws." - Not having a TV, I didn't see it. Did he give one of those insulting chuckles he's been known to do after saying this?

"And to keep the promise of America, we will enforce the laws of our country. (Applause.) - Really? What have you done with respect to this effort for the past 5 years?

What is the plan for the roughly 11M of them in the country now illegally? Does anyone know?
 
personally, I think that both the Dems and Repubs must be in the hands of major contributors who want to keep US immigration policy exactly as it is. Their behaviro makes no sense otherwise. A huge number of Americans are concerned about illegal immigration, and those concerns are not being addressed. And it is not just an economic issue. A porous border is a security catastrophe in the making.
 
rick_reno said:
Did he give one of those insulting chuckles he's been known to do after saying this?

That's the real issue. You just don't like the guy. You might be happier with someone who was all form (by your standards) and little substance. You might prefer to have some smooth talking script reader whose handlers really ran the government. Whether Bush does what you would like is immaterial. If he did, you would complain that it took too long. If the Bush era spawned some very favorable outcomes, somehow it wouldn't be to GW's credit.
 
Waitone said:
It realizes there will be political hell to pay if something substantive is not done.

Where is the winning strategy if responding to voters will be condemned?
 
NHBB said:
vote third party... be it libertarian, or whatever other party you may choose... don't stay silent and just let it be.

Yes, by all means. Let's convert votes that would never be explicitly Democrat and marginalize them so that they make it easier for a Democrat to win.
 
I think that both the Dems and Repubs must be in the hands of major contributors who want to keep US immigration policy exactly as it is.

No doubt both parties have been to the trough of major corporations, we do not pick we simply vote for who the wealthy chose.:banghead:
 
Standing Wolf said:
The only benefit to America is that its president can pretend a.) he's taking action, and b.) it's action that is for America's good. In all other respects, it's an abject failure to enforce the law, an abject failure to secure the nation's borders, an abject failure to respect the will of the people, and a sterling success at passing the buck to the next administration.

Oh my. The issue is getting some attention. If any substantial action is taken, we might have to find something else to complain about. But that's okay. If one is essentially anti establishment there will always be something to ridicule.:rolleyes:
 
Waitone said:
Simple answer. Elections coming up. The republican party has its . . . .caught in its zipper. The pain is sharp and intense. It realizes there will be political hell to pay if something substantive is not done. Democrats could well run the table in '06 and '08 if they would appear to do something. Problem is Democrats are no better than republicans. Classic example of 2 party politics--Incumbent and Challenger Parties.
Let's just hope they act on the problem.


http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/13280552.htm
3 want services tied to legal status

Commissioners also want immigration to be probed in contracts, jail

JIM MORRILL

Three Mecklenburg County commissioners are wading into the national debate over immigration by proposing to cut off county services to undocumented residents.

The three Republicans also want the county to stop contracting with companies that employ illegal immigrants.

"If you are illegal in this country, you will get no services from government, you will get no hiding places from businesses that deal with government," Commissioner Bill James said Monday. James and fellow commissioners Dan Bishop and Jim Puckett plan to raise the issue at next week's board meeting.

They want the county to join a growing movement by local governments to deal with illegal immigration in the absence of a strong federal enforcement policy. Immigration is a federal issue.

President Bush touted new immigration proposals Monday in Arizona, but Congress isn't expected to act until early next year. There are an estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in America, including 330,000 in the Carolinas.

Some local governments in other states are trying to address the problem by curbing services and authorizing local law enforcement officials to enforce federal immigration laws. Mecklenburg's Democratic commissioners said they would act cautiously.

"It certainly is a popular political issue," said Chairman Parks Helms. "We need to be very careful on how we become involved with it ... We ought to make sure we're following the proper rules and regulations."

What might happen to the proposal is unclear. Democrats control the board and issues often break along party lines.

The county administers a variety of social service programs, including welfare and food stamps, which are primarily federally funded. This month more than 32,000 county households received food stamps. More than 3,400 people got welfare payments.

Federal rules already make illegal residents ineligible for those programs, said Brenda Jackson, deputy director of the county's Department of Social Services.

James said the proposed ban would reach to other county services such as mental health centers and detox centers as well as the many private agencies that get county dollars. Those include the uptown men's homeless shelter, Legal Services and even the Latin American Coalition.

"This is just an opportunity for the county to do its part," said Bishop. "Taxpayers, we think, would generally support the idea that taxpayer-funded benefits and programs are for citizens and legal aliens and should be limited to those populations."

An N.C. legislative proposal to limit benefits died this year. So did a similar proposal in Gaston County, which failed because of legal restrictions.

Angeles Ortega-Moore, director of the Latin American Coalition, said few illegal immigrants use county services to start with.

"Most undocumenteds do not go after taxpayer-funded programs like food stamps and Medicaid," she said. "They know they don't qualify and they have a fear of being found out."

Democratic commissioner Jennifer Roberts said a ban may not be practical.
"Do you think homeless people are going to have documents of any kind?" she said.

The GOP commissioners' proposal also would require companies that contract with the county to verify they have no illegal employees.

It's against the law for employers to knowingly hire undocumented immigrants. But in the Carolinas, no employer has been fined in at least two years -- even though more than 150,000 illegal immigrants are believed to hold jobs.

In their draft proposal, the Republican commissioners allude to this month's death of UNC Charlotte freshman Min Chang. He died when his car was hit by a vehicle going the wrong way on Interstate 485. It was allegedly driven by Jorge Humberto Hernandez Soto, who had entered this country illegally at least 17 times.

The GOP commissioners also want the sheriff to identify jail inmates who are illegal and then charge them with violating immigration laws and turn them over to federal authorities.

Sheriff Jim Pendergraph said he does his best to identify illegal immigrants now. But he said it's hard to do without direct access to immigration files. And he said unless the inmates have committed a felony, federal officials rarely hold them.

"Until Congress and the federal government and the president decide this is an issue we want to tackle, it's not going to get any better," he said. -- Staff writer Dánica Coto contributed.
 
This issue is getting attention because it is dividing the American people,like abortion,like the death penalty,like social security,like the war on terror,like minimum wage,like medicare,like national heath care,like Terry Schiavo,like gay rights,and like gun control.If this admin. were serious about any of these issues for anything other than dividing the American people they could do it in the blink of an eye because they control all 3 branches of gov.
These are hot button issues that keep us at each others throat as opposed to at theirs.
 
A few points to keep in mind:

(1) - You like cheap produce (fruit/vegetables) that is provided by cheap migrant labor? If not, be prepared to pay through the nose for Southern produce picked by high-priced American laborers... Orange Juice (for example) will triple in price...

(2) - Sealing the border North/South requires real barriers to be built, similiar to Berlin Wall, which is a huge expense... be prepared for huge payment...

(3) - Expelling all illegal immigrants currently hiding in country will require huge expense to process illegal immigrants and huge expense to fill the jobs illegal immigrants are currently working and huge expense to replace the taxes illegal immigrants are currently paying (yes illegal immigrants pay taxes... local, state, and federal taxes are withdrawn from their paychecks)...

Fixing the immigration problem will take decades and be the most expensive government effort ever undertaken...
 
RealGun said:
You just don't like the guy. You might be happier with someone who was all form (by your standards) and little substance.

Staunchly apologetic, I see. Perhaps it works the other way around - people hate the Grofaz because he is so damn incompetent that he is wrecking the country, maybe?

:barf:
 
Fixing the immigration problem will take decades and be the most expensive government effort ever undertaken...

Perhaps if we had solved the problem at the very beginning???



Cost of illegal immigration to the average working person outweights any
reduce cost of products which we never see.
 
Camp David said:
A few points to keep in mind:
(1) - You like cheap produce (fruit/vegetables) that is provided by cheap migrant labor? If not, be prepared to pay through the nose for Southern produce picked by high-priced American laborers... Orange Juice (for example) will triple in price...

(Temporarily) expensive orange juice is a small price to pay for keeping your house. More illegals, more state spending, more socialism, more "for the (illegals') children!", bye-bye Prop 13, bye-bye houses.

(2) - Sealing the border North/South requires real barriers to be built, similiar to Berlin Wall, which is a huge expense... be prepared for huge payment...

1-2 billion maybe. That's what we spend in ONE WEEK in Iraq.

(3) - Expelling all illegal immigrants currently hiding in country will require huge expense to process illegal immigrants

Confiscate their property and/or charge their countries to the extent of the expense. For once, let the criminals bear the financial burden.

and huge expense to fill the jobs illegal immigrants are currently working and

Expense for whom? For the businesses that pocketed the wage difference before by breaking the law? That's the least they should be made to pay.

huge expense to replace the taxes illegal immigrants are currently paying
(yes illegal immigrants pay taxes... local, state, and federal taxes are withdrawn from their paychecks)...

Exactly what taxes are they paying? Do the illegals have a SSN or a W2? Enough said for federal or state income tax. Sales tax? Many shop at their own stores supplied from across the border and at lower prices; I seriously doubt the owners charge them sales tax.

Fixing the immigration problem will take decades and be the most expensive government effort ever undertaken...

What a wonderful (wrong) excuse to do nothing.
 
CAnnoneer said:
1-2 billion maybe. That's what we spend in ONE WEEK in Iraq...

Suggest you investigate this... it has been pursued at length elsewhere in detail... building a proper barrier, north and south, on borders, would involve in excess of $10 trillion dollars... I am not talking about a four-strand barb-wire fence....

CAnnoneer said:
Sales tax? Many shop at their own stores supplied from across the border and at lower prices; I seriously doubt the owners charge them sales tax....
You would be wrong....
 
(1) - You like cheap produce (fruit/vegetables) that is provided by cheap migrant labor? If not, be prepared to pay through the nose for Southern produce picked by high-priced American laborers... Orange Juice (for example) will triple in price...
This is just a fallacy. You would be surprised at just how many products NC produced before the wave of illegal aliens swept across the borders, and even more surprised about our outsourced jobs. The bottom line is- the savings from cheap labor equals profit while the consumer pays the same wholesale/retail cost. It’s all a bunch of fuzzy math cloaked as capitalism under the cover of humanitarian aid.
 
Everything I read says a fence would cost about what we spend in Iraq in a week. Strange Americans are getting killed to protect the borders of Iraq and our leaders care nothing about the borders here. Far as expense of getting rid of the illegals. Might be good to think of the cost of having them lol. People who want open borders to me are in the wrong country
 
NCP24 said:
This is just a fallacy. You would be surprised at just how many products NC produced before the wave of illegal aliens swept across the borders, and even more surprised about our outsourced jobs. The bottom line is- the savings from cheap labor equals profit while the consumer pays the same wholesale/retail cost. It’s all a bunch of fuzzy math cloaked as capitalism under the cover of humanitarian aid.

Try unionized grape pickers, orange pickers, and potato diggers there NCP24! Migrant labor is often utilized to harvest crops... if companies had to pay health benefits and a living wage to crop pickers, you'd pay $10.00 for an orange!

I am against illegal immigration but I understand that to pix the problem will cost us a fortune!
 
RealGun said:
That's the real issue. You just don't like the guy. You might be happier with someone who was all form (by your standards) and little substance. You might prefer to have some smooth talking script reader whose handlers really ran the government. Whether Bush does what you would like is immaterial. If he did, you would complain that it took too long. If the Bush era spawned some very favorable outcomes, somehow it wouldn't be to GW's credit.

Realgun - Actually, I don't know the guy. Do you? Prehaps you could take the time to enlighten us on what he's really like. It might shed some insight on how he manages to propose policy such as this one. Let's start with a simple one - is he the conservative we thought he was when we voted for him? Please let us know.

This has nothing to do whether I like him - or don't. It's his polices I take issue with and this scheme is the latest in a long string of failures. I do, as I'm sure you've noticed give him credit when it's due, recent examples are the appointment of Bernake for the Fed position and his excellent choice of Alito for the Supreme Court.
 
The cost of deporting criminal aliens (aka, illegals) and securing the borders is miniscule compared to the cost of keeping them here. They drain our social services, inflate our housing, steal jobs and close down emergency rooms.

I lived in Kalifornicate for seven years. In that time, I saw numerous emergency rooms close down because of illegals. These people would come into the ER and demand to be treated for colds and flu. They used the ER as their primary care provider. They would lie about their address, social security number, etc., and then would not pay. The hospitals in question simply shut down their ERs because they were a) required by the federal stooges to treat anybody who comes into an ER and b) were not reimbursed by said fed stooges.

Second, four and five of these criminal families would crowd into a single family house, thus driving the price of California real estate so high that decent Americans cannot compete.

Third, as soon as one of those third world baby-making machines apply for welfare, the California social services worker immediately coaches her how to milk the system for all it's worth.

Fourth, now our Supreme Commander and (in his own mind, anyway) dictator-for-life wants these people to have access to our social security fund whether they've paid into it or not.

This is just a very small list of the cost to the country of allowing these people to stay. Get these people out at any cost and I will gladly pay more for a head of lettuce!
 
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