Bushmaster bashing

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I had a Bushmaster for a long time and it was a decent rifle, never had any issues with it. However I never really did more than plink with it and when I sold it after a couple years I only had a few thousand rounds through it. If I wanted an AR for serious usage I think there are much better options than Bushmaster within the same price range. Right now I have a Stag and I spent less on it than I did on my Bushmaster and I trust it a lot more, I would have no problem putting that to some serious use.

I won't bash Bushmaster because I have no real reason to. However I would agree that there are better options out there for about the same amount of money.
 
I had a Bushmaster for a long time and it was a decent rifle, never had any issues with it. However I never really did more than plink with it and when I sold it after a couple years I only had a few thousand rounds through it. If I wanted an AR for serious usage I think there are much better options than Bushmaster within the same price range. Right now I have a Stag and I spent less on it than I did on my Bushmaster and I trust it a lot more, I would have no problem putting that to some serious use.

I won't bash Bushmaster because I have no real reason to. However I would agree that there are better options out there for about the same amount of money.

Why? Not being a "Dique" (as the French say;)) here, but what diffrence between the two rifles did you experiance to to say that one gets the nod over the other?
 
I purchased my first AR in 1989 - an Olympic. I purchased my second one in 1993 - a Bushmaster.

The thing about the AR market is that new people are always joining and it is constantly evolving. One reason Bushmaster used to be held in higher regard than it is now is because there weren't as many choices. As recently as 1999, you either paid Colt prices or you went with Armalite, Bushmaster, DPMS or Olympic (unless you wanted to go even more budget and buy from the parts houses). Bushmaster (and most of the other companies) didn't build to the same quality that Colt did; but there was a big price difference there too and Bushmaster represented a good value.

However, even then Bushmaster had some irritating quirks - purple lower receivers, overtorqued barrel nuts requiring excessive windage, unstaked castle nuts. Not deal breakers by any means, just things that were annoying.

The problem Bushmaster has is that it did not innovate or evolve at all. It hasn't brought a single new idea to the marketplace until everybody and their brother were already marketing that idea somewhere else. Even as an early participant at AR15.com, where it had a direct line to its consumers and what they wanted, Bushmaster often drew the wrong conclusions from all the chatter. I mean, Bushmaster invented the "Dissipator" concept and then slapped a carbine length gas system on it.

For all practical purposes, Bushmaster is basically selling the same rifle it was in 2001. Except now there are at least twice as many (if not more) AR manufacturers out there now - and they are working to get market share and distinguish themselves by offering features that used to be unavailable: midlength gas systems, 1:7 barrels, superlight profiles, nitrided barrels, bolt carrier groups that meet the TDP, staked castle nuts, etc.

Bushmaster didn't suddenly drop dramatically in quality. They simply stood still and coasted on their reputation as other more innovative manufacturers bypassed them and offered a superior product. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, Bushmaster got the idea that they were the equivalent of Colt and could command similar prices. A stagnating product line and increasing prices does not lead to customer goodwill.

So I think that is where a lot of the dislike towards Bushmaster (and several of the other manufacturers) is coming from. If you weren't around the forums back then, you may not realize how hard some members were pushing these companies for the features they wanted only to be ignored. Eventually companies like CMMG, Bravo Company, Sabre, etc. came along and provided the features that the established companies were not interested in providing. More features at the same price (or better) plus a willingness to listen to what customer wanted... pretty basic business smarts.

However, I think the most recent wave is definitely ACR related. Although, I was impressed by how frank Bushmaster was. They were very open and gave some direct answers in a situation where doing so wasn't going to help them any. Unfortunately, the issues with the ACR release are just one more symptom of a deeper problem with the culture at Bushmaster.

It is difficult to explain the problems with the culture at Bushmaster; but this anecdote sums it up well for me. Some time ago, AR15.com members were deluging Bushmaster with requests to make a 1:7 16" barrel. Everybody wanted to use the heavier 75/77gr ammo that was starting to become popular and at the time, it was 1:9 or nothing unless you wanted to buy Colt. Bushmaster eventually got around to putting up a poll to gauge interest. They got hundreds of answers saying "Yes, I will buy one!" (I was one of them); but nothing happened. The poll ran for over a year and no updates, no comments, nothing. Eventually CMMG came out with 1:7 chrome lined 16" barrels - and with various profiles and gas system options even. I ended up buying one of those CMMG barrels (along with a lot of other people). About three or four months after I bought my CMMG barrel, Bushmaster announced it was making a limited run of 16" 1:7 barrels in HBAR profile only. By this time, there were other manufacturers besides CMMG offering 1:7s at a good price now.

Bushmaster ended up selling something like less than half of the barrels their poll had indicated they would sell. Afterwards the Bushmaster rep basically posted stating that the problem was that AR15.com people were full of it and you couldn't rely on them buying what they claimed to want. Apparently it never crossed their minds that maybe by taking so long and then offering a limited range of options, they just flat-out missed the bus on 1:7 barrels. It STILL hasn't crossed their mind to this day (witness the ACR).
Very imformative post, as usual!
 
Bushmaster didn't suddenly drop dramatically in quality. They simply stood still and coasted on their reputation as other more innovative manufacturers bypassed them and offered a superior product.

Ahhh yes, the Glock of rifles.

A stagnating product line and increasing prices does not lead to customer goodwill.

Unless your name is Gaston Glock, and your customers consume copious quantities of koolaid!
 
Given my current project-- the M4a3 w/Plumcrazy polymer lower, and Blackthorne .22LR upper-- I can't say Bushmaster is a the bottom of the heap-- My only issue (and it may be unfounded) is that it seems like Bushmasters have .223 chambers-- but then I may be wrong. My old boss had a Bushmaster Patrolmans (?) carbine he bought when he was a small town Barney Fife, and it shot pretty well... I am at the point in my life, that I may buy a Vulcan V15 or Century C15-- if the price is ok. If it works, I'll keep it, if it doesn't, I will take it to the Gunshow and sell it FTF off my shoulder...someone will always buy a military style gun..I mean if Purple Cobras fly off the shelf, I am sure a EBR will too...

Bushmaster is good in my book...plus I am too porr to afford the top level prices Noveske, Colt, and others command. Not because I don't want them, but I have 4 kids and an ex wife..and a wife that just got an Infiniti G37 Sedan (happy Valentines day baby!)R
 
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE!!!!
Give me first hand experience of a serious failure by a Bushmaster rifle and at what round count, cleaning, condition ammo. Then I want first hand accounts of any other brand of rifle, yes even the holy grail noveske, lmt's and BCM's.
I do not want second hand accounts. I'm talking YOU went to the high speed rifle class and YOUR rifle broke.
Any takers?
 
Also, please let me know some things I can do to cause a failure with my rifle so I can hate Bushmaster too.
Someone please post the chart now, thank you.
 
So you are saying you will only accept stories of catastrophic failures from the handful of people who are in this thread?

Uh huh. In other words you are trying to make sure you only get the results you want.

Also, please let me know some things I can do to cause a failure with my rifle so I can hate Bushmaster too.

Run it through a carbine course.
 
I agree completely with the OP and Bartholomew Roberts.

I think that there is a tendency in gun culture to distrust or hate anything that costs less than what you paid for it. I think that Bushmaster suffers from the same syndrome as Kimber in that, the more units you sell, the more problems will happen, whether or not it represents a higher RATE of problems.

I think that you could do a test of different rifles from various pricepoints with the mfr labels covered, and the vast majority of shooters wouldn't know the difference. I think the extra features you get on more expensive rifles represent the law of diminishing returns, in that you will pay a LOT more than the return you get in performance.

The Chart is worthless. The only carrier key I have had come loose was.......A MILITARY ISSUE "PROPERLY" STAKED KEY.

Most rifles will work for most shooters most of the time. If you get an AR, and regard it as a tool you will be constantly tweaking and upgrading, I think it makes little if any difference which one you get. The only one I would avoid is Vulcan/Hesse, and I still think you could throw one of THOSE in the covered-label test and most people wouldn't know it.
 
good brand but what i dont like is that they cost more than a comparable rifle because of the name.... that and that the ACR is dang expensive
 
The chart is only useless if you don't care about having a firearm that meets the minimum requirements for government use. Some of the items listed are not important for plinkers, others are.

One problem with your argument is that there are more quality rifles at classes, etc and yet the brands that continue to break more often are BM, DPMS, etc.

And if you are trying to support BM I would not liken them to Kimber.
 
I don't see a carbine course in my future, but I have friends that could assist me in a torture test.
How many rounds do they usually involve?
What do you do during a carbine course that cause the rifle to fail?
Do I need to drop it and kick it a few times?
These are serious questions.

I was not trying to ensure any results. I do get tired of hearing only second hand accounts of someone else's failures.
 
Go over to m4carbine.net read what people have to say. Most of the posters there are serious LE or .mil who's lives depend on their weapon working.
 
Go over to m4carbine.net read what people have to say. Most of the posters there are serious LE or .mil who's lives depend on their weapon working.
Been there, mostly dealers or trainers selling over priced rifles or parts and down playing any rifle manufacturers that make rifles they don't sell.....
 
So what's the round count of a carbine course?
At what point will an inferior rifle quit and a top tier keep going?
I'm all about discussions over what's good and bad but can I get a few first hand failures here on this thread or just scoot over to M4carbine.net where people have actually fired thier ar's?
 
There isn't one thing wrong with my Bushmaster. It looks great, works great, and made just like my others. I think most Bushmaster bashing is from people regurgitating something they read on the internet and they have no actual experience with one.
 
As far as the famous "CHART" take it for what the paper its written on is worth, not much. I say this because it only applies to one model made by each of these manufacturers, not even a fraction of what those manufacturers make.
Next, even according to the "chart" Bushmaster is rated higher than all of the mid grade models, in fact having a few features in that particular model that S&W doesnt have.
Also there is unverified guessing on that chart when it comes to some features.
The bashing is from those who try to sell others certain much higher priced models that they make a higher margin of profit on. Also from those who are disappointed at the ACRs high price.
 
This comment makes me laugh, what a load if steaming crap.
"Go over to m4carbine.net read what people have to say. Most of the posters there are serious LE or .mil who's lives depend on their weapon working."

There are more gun dealers, gunshop owners, and managers, internet crap talkers, and kids there, than law enforcement officers or military by far.
 
I am not trying to say BM is the best or even any good. I am trying to point out how often things are repeated when the person stating the "fact" has no knowledge of the event that took place.

I really do want to know the round count on a typical carbine course.
 
Right. Tell that to the Magpul guys, Iraq_gunz, Rob_s, Iraq Ninja, etc. A good number of the guys post on there from Afghanistan and Iraq. Hell one guy on there is an armorer for a PMC. He has seen more AR/M16s through there of every make possible than most of us can dream about. Ask him what he thinks of Bushmaster. He can show you photos of the problems he has had with them.

Tight chambers, rust under the FSB, Various broken parts, etc. But of course the one or two rifles you have personally owned and fired a few hundred rounds through is a far better indicator of overall BM quality right?
 
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