Can My Employer Search My Car

[Treo]

I work in a small town in Colorado .If I gave the name my employer would know who was posting this (Assuming they read it). My duties do not call for me to be armed ,as a matter of fact it would be a huge liability. I never carry at work. and I park my vehicle off campus ( I park in what I THINK is a public lot across the street from work) and I leave my weapon in a lock box in the trunk of my car. I do not use my vehicle for work and I never signed any agreement to allow my employer to search my vehicle. I made the mistake of letting a "friend" know that I had a gun in my car. the "friend" has now been promoted over my and is trying to use the gun to get me fired. ( I figure if just me having the gun in my car was an issue she'd have come to me and told me not to carry. instead she went to both our boss and told her) what I want to know is can my boss order me to allow a vehicle search ( as in if I say no I'm fired) or can she ask the local police to search MY car if it turns out that what I believe is a public lot is actually company property? I can use anither PL that I know is not company property but its a hundred yards or so from work.
any in put would be appreciated

 

[RobTzu]

If your vehicle is not used for company business, and it is off property then no. If you use it for company business, they may have rules on firearms in the vehicle. Even then I do not think they can search it if you do not want them to. However if you refused it would most likely lead you to being fired.

 

[Trebor]

Your employer can only search your vehicle with your permission.

Of course, in many states, they can require you to grant permission to search your car as a condition of employment. In other words they can say, "Let us search your car or be fired," and, in many states, make that stick.

Not knowing the laws of your state I can't get any more specific then that.

 

[pablo45]

In New Mexico your vehicle is an extension of your home. If you grant them permission to search your car then you are basically saying the same for your home. Your job is not a Law Enforcement agency so I do not see where they would be able to have any rights as far as any kind of search and seizure authority over you and or your property while not on theres.

 

[WhoKnows]

If you worked and parked inside a gated area with Security at the gate, Yes they could do a search as long as you have agreed to it as terms of being employed and you signed an agreement. Otherwise NO. Public lot or public street is a big NO.

 

[Treo]

I have a CHL so even if they told the local PD I had a gun "hidden" in my car there'd be no probable cause ( that I can think of). can they make it a condition of employment if my vehicle is OFF company property. Just on GP I'd quit before I'd let them search

 

[rrruuunnn]

If they fire you for having a CHL license and gun in car and willing admit it. I believe you have a lawsuit against the company. They can not tell you how to live your life. That is discrimination. Correct me if i'm wrong. I hate lawsuit abuse. But this is technically discrimination.

 

[rrruuunnn]

maybe, you should goto radio shack and buy a recorder. my friend that works at radio shack had to record his co worker's conversation to take to his boss. my cell phone can record 6 hours of video with audio.

 

[Trebor]

Can they make it a condition of employment if my vehicle is OFF company property.

"Yes," "probably", or "maybe," depending on your state law.

Is your state an "at will" state in terms of employment? In many states the law is written so that either party, the employee or the employeer, can end the employee/employer relationship "at will." That means you can walk away "at will" or they can fire you "at will."

Basically, in an "at will" state, that means they can fire you for almost any reason they want, unless you have a signed contract or union protection that states otherwise. (They still can't discriminate based on your race, age, gender, or religion).

So, find out your state law regarding employment law. Is your state an "at will" state? Even if it is, are you covered by a written contract you signed or are you a member of the union with a contract in place?

If your state is an "at will" state, and you aren't covered by a written contract or a union contract, they can pretty much make anything (except race, gender, etc.) a condition of employment and fire you if you don't comply.

i believe you have a lawsuit against the company. they can not tell you how to live your life. that is discrimination.

No, sorry. Gun owners are NOT a protected class. They can discriminate against you for being a gun owner and there is generally nothing you can do about it legally.

Now, if they violate his signed contract or union contract, that is a different matter. Even then, look at the contract. Does it allow them to search vehicles? If it does, and he refues, he can be fired for the refusal.

 

[Nitrogen]

f they fire you for having a CHL license and gun in car and willing admit it. i believe you have a lawsuit against the company. they can not tell you how to live your life. that is discrimination. correct me if i'm wrong. i hate lawsuit abuse. but this is technically discrimination.

100% wrong.

If your employee handbook says you can be terminated for having a gun in your car, they can terminate you for having a gun in your car. Period. End of discussion.

You have no 4th amendment rights here. The company can do whatever they want, and make it a term of of your employment. If they want to search your car, and you refuse, they can fire you.

True, they cannot search your car w/o your permission, but that doesn't matter.

In most states, a company can fire you for any reason whatsoever, as long as that reason isn't federally or state-wide restricted, like, for being too old, for being a woman, etc.

Being a gun owner is not a protected class.

Canon, in irving, TX would fire people just because they had CHL's and didn't disclose that fact to HR. Never mind they never brought a gun on the company's property.

Having said that, if you're legal as far as the state is concerned, do what you think is right. No company with a policy like this gives a lick about your safety; only you can make the decision on wether it's worth it to violate company policy to help ensure your safety or not.

 

[sacp81170a]

If your employee handbook says you can be terminated for having a gun in your car, they can terminate you for having a gun in your car. Period. End of discussion.

Only counts on company property. The company has no authority whatsoever over your lawful activities when not on company time and company property.

You have no 4th amendment rights here.

Nonsense. You have 4th amendment rights everywhere except in certain legally designated areas under certain circumstances.

Just on GP I'd quit before I'd let them search

They have no authority to search if you're not on their property. Even if you're on their property, you can elect not to allow them to search. Of course, then you would be fired. Under no circumstances should you quit. Make 'em fire you explicitly and then sue 'em for wrongful termination.

This is one of the reasons I caution my CCW students to never reveal their status to casual acquaintances or people who don't absolutely need to know. The first thing lots of people want to do is run out and tell all their friends. Not a good idea.

Good luck. If you quit for no good reason, you may have trouble collecting unemployment. If you're fired for no good reason, you probably will be able to. What you do off company property and time is your business as long as it doesn't affect your job performance.

 

[jeep-2]

I never carry at work. and I park my vehicle off campus ( I park in what I THINK is a public lot across the street from work) and I leave my weapon in a lock box in the trunk of my car. I do not use my vehicle for work and I never signed any agreement to allow my employer to search my vehicle.

tell them to kiss off, the car-- gun is not on their property.. If they had their way, you couldn't even ride to work with a person that had a gun or go to the range with a gun in your car. the police may be able to search your auto in a parking lot but no private citizen can.

suppose you rode to work with someone else and they parked in the same lot, they went to their job and you went to yours, but they left the auto there, do you think they could fire you or search his car.. better talk to a lawyer and see if you can bring a suit if fired..I'd keep a close eye on that trouble maker and have everything documented. with "friends" like her don't need many enimies.

 

[Nitrogen]

Nonsense. You have 4th amendment rights everywhere except in certain legally designated areas under certain circumstances.

Wanna bet? Ok, I could have worded it better.

Your 4th amendment rights do not apply. Your 4th amendment rights only apply against actions by the government, not by an employer.

Remember: In most states, an employer cna fire you for WHATEVER REASON THEY WANT.

If they find out you're a gun owner: They can fire you. There's no recourse. Being a gun owner isn't a protected class. Period. They can fire you if you drive to work with a gun, even if you don't park on company property. They can fire you for wearing a tie on hawaiian shirt day.

 

[sacp81170a]

Remember: In most states, an employer cna fire you for WHATEVER REASON THEY WANT.

That isn't a 4th amendment issue...

If they find out you're a gun owner: They can fire you. There's no recourse. Being a gun owner isn't a protected class. Period. They can fire you if you drive to work with a gun, even if you don't park on company property. They can fire you for wearing a tie on hawaiian shirt day.

If they fire you for something that's not covered in the employee handbook, they have to pay unemployment. You're right, being a gun owner isn't a protected class. Being a private citizen with rights is. Employment law, even in "at will" states, generally keeps your employer from meddling overmuch in your lawful activities off company time and property by defining "fired for good cause." Simply owning firearms is not good cause, unless you're breaking a law in your jurisdiction. Your employer doesn't own you.

The basic problem here is that another worker is trying actively to get the OP fired. I say find a good labor attorney, make 'em fire you, and then make 'em pay. It's the American Way, doncha know...

Wanna bet? Ok, I could have worded it better.

I'll take that bet. Absent PC or a warrant, no one has the authority to search you or your property without your consent. If you took a job and the employee handbook says you agree to have your person and vehicle searched while on company property, your refusal is a rejection of your employment agreement. Therefore you may be fired for good cause. Off company property, the company has no authority to enforce its regulations. The only way they can fire you for good cause is if your off hours behavior affects your job performance. Landing in the drunk tank for a couple of days in the middle of the week would constitute good cause. If they fire you for wearing a Hawaiian shirt, well, that's good taste, but it's not good cause.

 

[Nitrogen]

The problem here is, that the OP can be fired for this. Nothing keeps his employer from firing him; and that's my point.

Sure they'll have to pay unemployment, but if they really have their panties in a gordian knot about it, there's little the OP can do to keep his job. That's my ultimate point. Being in the right, which I DO believe the OP is, is fine, especially if he's got the money to hire a good attourney, or will find one that'll take his case pro bono, or for a percentage of what he collects.

 

[divemedic]

Unemployment can be tricky as well. Unemployment can only be denied if the employee was fired for misconduct. My G/F was fired for having a gun in her car off company property, and her unemployment was denied, as the employer successfully showed misconduct. The employer didn't even HAVE an employee manual, much less mention guns in it.

A similar situation with Disney here, except there is no way to keep your car off property, as Disney owns all of the land for miles around.

 

[Nobody's_Hero]

To the O.P.: Concealed means concealed!

And, the bit about the Amendments regulating how we allow the government to deal with us and not necessarily each other is spot on. Sorry, but it wasn't established over 200 years ago because people were fussing and searching each other's wagons. It came about as a response to gov't tyranny.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i've witnessed a company get sued for giving a pregnant woman forced time away from work. the employer felt that a pregnant woman should not be working and was sued for discrimination. this can happen in texas.

 

[buzz_knox]

i've witnessed a company get sued for giving a pregnant woman forced time away from work. the employer felt that a pregnant woman should not be working and was sued for discrimination. this can happen in texas.

Firing someone for being pregnant is sex discrimination as women are a protected class. There is no such protection for being a gun owner.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i've witnessed a company get sued for giving a pregnant woman forced time away from work. the employer felt that a pregnant woman should not be working and was sued for discrimination. this can happen in texas.

you mentioned that you are working on a campus. i have read some university weapons policy in the preparation of our own company's weapon policy. in general, school campuses by state law prohibit guns on campus. but as you said you are parked off campus.

 

[rrruuunnn]

not all women are pregnant. she was given time off for being pregnant. not being a woman. most of the workers are women.

 

[rrruuunnn]

sometimes i think the gov't protects the employees too much. they wanted the files of all the past employees including reasons for firing. and texas worker's compensation coached an ex employee how to lie.

 

[Ed Ames]

The nearly universal answer to the original question: Yes, but only if you give permission.

Next question: Can employees refuse permission to search? Yes, but doing so may cost them their job.

Third question: If an employee loses their job for refusing to submit to a search do they have any recourse? Maybe, but only if it can be demonstrated that the search was discriminatory and even then there are no guarantees.


One important question to ask is "How often does this employer conduct searches?"

One of my employers adopted a, "we can search vehicles on our property", policy for a while. A fair number of employees complained to the owner who said three things; "our HR consultants said to put it in", "we've never searched anybody and I can't see us wanting to", and, "you can always refuse and the worst that can happen is you'll be fired."

Having worked there a while before the policy changed I wasn't at all worried.

Other employers routinely search vehicles. There you'd have more cause for concern.

 

[tinygnat219]

Here's some stuff that should be fairly simple to do:

1. Get a copy of the Employee manual. Review it for "Weapons policy" or some other nonsense like that. See if there actually is anything in there about weapons being prohibited or not. If they are prohibited, and you park on company property then that prohibition by definition extends to your car as well since it is on their property (unless you have laws like NM). My employee manual states that basically illegal activity is not allowed (since I work in DC, that point is moot).

2. Find out who owns the property across the street. This can be done through city or county tax records. If it's a public lot and it's ok to leave a gun in the car per local law, then you are fine. Even if it's against company policy to have a weapon, you don't have one on their premises and they cannot do anything about it.

 

[Fast Frank]

All the legal mumbo jumbo is just a distraction.

Here's the reality: Do you want to work for a company that wants to search your car?