KodiakBeer
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The .22 is excellent for shooting your way out of a bear.
Can we put an end to...
- Thread starter Ragnar Danneskjold
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The .22 is excellent for shooting your way out of a bear.
It is best to use that gun and caliber that you are most competent and familiar with for self-defense, whether against human or animal predators. Given that the majority of shooters practice with and shoot the .22lr more than any other cartridge - it is obviously the hands down choice.
Also it is past time to put an end to the myth that bears are somehow more dangerous than many other common critters. Bears - per scientists - are biologically relatives of the dog family - and anyone with half a brain knows that one is much more likely to be bitten or attacked by a vicious poodle than a bear. I myself can attest to this fact having survived numerous poodle attacks, whilst never having survived a single bear attack. Given the fact that poodles are much more dangerous than bears - it only stands to reason that one should use a recognized "poodle shooter" caliber as a self-defense round. While some may prefer the .223 - educated shooters are aware that the .22lr is the preferred round.
As to penetration - I have found that women shooters who are usually more educated on the topic than their male counterparts - thus they are much more concerned about penetration as they are aware that uncontrolled penetration can result in unintended consequences including the significant swelling of bodily tissues and cause months of unnecessary physical pain and discomfort - and result in thousands of dollars in unnecessary medical expenses and millions of dollars of ancillary expenses over a lifetime.
I can't tell you the number of my macho male peers who think that excessive or uncontrolled penetration is the key to where it is at - "better to much penetration than too little" - only to discover months down the road - that they will be paying a lifetime of bills for their thoughtlessness.
Please people, use the brains god gave you and be prepared. As the old saying goes "Si vis pacem, para bellum," Flavorus Larrius Vegetis Cucumberus - meaning if you want salad, use the tomato.
Also it is past time to put an end to the myth that bears are somehow more dangerous than many other common critters. Bears - per scientists - are biologically relatives of the dog family - and anyone with half a brain knows that one is much more likely to be bitten or attacked by a vicious poodle than a bear. I myself can attest to this fact having survived numerous poodle attacks, whilst never having survived a single bear attack. Given the fact that poodles are much more dangerous than bears - it only stands to reason that one should use a recognized "poodle shooter" caliber as a self-defense round. While some may prefer the .223 - educated shooters are aware that the .22lr is the preferred round.
As to penetration - I have found that women shooters who are usually more educated on the topic than their male counterparts - thus they are much more concerned about penetration as they are aware that uncontrolled penetration can result in unintended consequences including the significant swelling of bodily tissues and cause months of unnecessary physical pain and discomfort - and result in thousands of dollars in unnecessary medical expenses and millions of dollars of ancillary expenses over a lifetime.
I can't tell you the number of my macho male peers who think that excessive or uncontrolled penetration is the key to where it is at - "better to much penetration than too little" - only to discover months down the road - that they will be paying a lifetime of bills for their thoughtlessness.
Please people, use the brains god gave you and be prepared. As the old saying goes "Si vis pacem, para bellum," Flavorus Larrius Vegetis Cucumberus - meaning if you want salad, use the tomato.
CoRoMo
Member
Put a SEAL team, armed only with Marlin 60 rifles & iron sights, up against a handful of average Taliban who are armed with Mk 14 Mod 0 rifles & top tier optics.
We'll get to the bottom of the whole 'mindset, skillset, toolset' school of thinking.
We'll get to the bottom of the whole 'mindset, skillset, toolset' school of thinking.
mcdonl
Member
MODS.. where do we vote for best post ever?
Buck Snort
Member
mbogo wrote: "If you put an end to people saying that, how would you know when you were dealing with an idiot?"
mack wrote: "Hey, if you don't think .22lr is an adequate stopper then why don't you volunteer to get shot with it?"
Well HELLO!!
mack wrote: "Hey, if you don't think .22lr is an adequate stopper then why don't you volunteer to get shot with it?"
Well HELLO!!
Just as annoying as the, "would you take one in the chest? Didn't think so" argument, is the, "intent of the founding fathers" argument. ie "The founding fathers never intended forr you to have an AK-47 and 100,000 rounds of ammo, they intended for you to have a musket." The FFs did their thing and they're dead and long gone. Please don't tell me their intent as if you had lunch with them this afternoon.
"John Adams said Thomas Jefferson would take a .380 round to the chest, no problem, but there's no way he'd take a .38 + P!"
"John Adams said Thomas Jefferson would take a .380 round to the chest, no problem, but there's no way he'd take a .38 + P!"
MinnMooney
Member
I agree that that line of "reasoning" is adolecent and dangerous but no one is here to stop someone from saying stupid things (with the possible exception of the mods).
Two to three years ago, the .380 ACP was concidered way too weak for protection but now it's one of the more popular carry tools. It's better than throwing rocks and the .380 is totally concealable.
Two to three years ago, the .380 ACP was concidered way too weak for protection but now it's one of the more popular carry tools. It's better than throwing rocks and the .380 is totally concealable.
"The great object is that every man be armed and everyone who is able may have a AK or AR and one hundred thousand rounds of ammo" - Patrick Henry
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed with an AR or AK and one hundred thousand rounds of ammo." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed with an AK or AR and one hundred thousand rounds of ammo." -Thomas Jefferson.
"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed with an AR or AK and one hundred thousand rounds of ammo." -Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-8.
"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed with an AK or AR and one hundred thousand rounds of ammo." -Thomas Jefferson.
CoRoMo
Member
Does that mean .22lr is enough? That mindset & skillset can make up for "poor" toolset?
CoRoMo wrote: "Does that mean .22lr is enough? That mindset & skillset can make up for "poor" toolset?"
Maybe - though I would be very concerned about the whole flipper vs hand issue. Seals having flippers instead of hands might have serious issues with trigger control and with loading those .22lr rounds. I know seals are very trainable and can even balance balls on the end of their nose - so I assume they could do the same with rifles. Plus the definition of average soldier or average taliban is problematic - Audie Murphy and Alvin York would prior to their combat experience have been considered average soldiers. So maybe - circumstances make so much difference - long range contact or short range contact - in the water or out of the water. Have the seals had combat training with the marlin and have they had hand to hand eskimo training? Sorry to blubber on but the specific details and circumstances of any general senario make so much difference as do the qualities of the individuals involved.
Maybe - though I would be very concerned about the whole flipper vs hand issue. Seals having flippers instead of hands might have serious issues with trigger control and with loading those .22lr rounds. I know seals are very trainable and can even balance balls on the end of their nose - so I assume they could do the same with rifles. Plus the definition of average soldier or average taliban is problematic - Audie Murphy and Alvin York would prior to their combat experience have been considered average soldiers. So maybe - circumstances make so much difference - long range contact or short range contact - in the water or out of the water. Have the seals had combat training with the marlin and have they had hand to hand eskimo training? Sorry to blubber on but the specific details and circumstances of any general senario make so much difference as do the qualities of the individuals involved.
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sm
member
I make a motion we apply this to some other thread titles and lines of discussions.
No, I do not want to list what these titles and lines of discussions are, in fact prefer to leave it open, especially when we have a rash of trolls that sign up.
Why?
Well for one, I/we need to leave our options open, and two, how else are moderators gonna get bashed and trashed around here by trolls and others if we have every darn thing spelled out, thus leaving common sense out of the equation?
*smile*
SharpsDressedMan
member
Well, I have to just jump it and add to the "founding fathers" sidebar. It doesn't take too much investigation to conclude that our founding fathers intended for the private citizen to be armed, without infringement, just as any governmental troop be armed, should we ever have to stand, AGAIN, against the government, as they did. We are already hopelessly "outgunned" technology-wise, as "the government" has severely tried to restrict the TYPES of weapons we hold, but we still have some teeth. More than the teeth, though, we have to be willing to "bite", and that might mean biting a bear on the ass and hanging on until he cries "uncle", or gets tired of dragging us behind him.
KodiakBeer
member
Speaking of Alvin York, they recently dug up some of the 942 Germans he killed with his Winchester Model 52 and found .22 slugs still actively ricocheting around in some of the craniums. They said it sounded like an olympic level ping pong game. Scary! The French archeologist immediately surrendered.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Mack, You have competition!!!!!!!
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Good point Mike!!
AKElroy
Member
Stop it. You'll only encourage him.
I think this has gone just about far enough, young man. You are all raising quite a ruckuss with this tomfoolery. Now brush your teath & head upstairs.
KodiakBeer wrote: "and found .22 slugs still actively ricocheting around in some of the craniums."
Oh, good point, I had forgotten all about the richochet factor.... I'm so embarassed.
AKElroy wrote: "I think this has gone just about far enough, young man. You are all raising quite a ruckuss with this tomfoolery. Now brush your teath & head upstairs."
But we haven't even gotten to mean gun shop owners, dumb customers, .45 acp vs. 9mm, .50 bmg vs .22lr, .308 vs 30-06, .270 vs 30-06, motor oil vs gun oil, shoot to stop vs shoot to kill, scopes vs red dots vs iron sights, lasers yes or no, leather vs synthetic holsters, wood vs plastic, the ultimate survival gun, the ultimate gun, and of course the grandfather of them all the brown bess or the kentucky rifle.
What year did John Browning invent the Thompson Submachine gun and which side used it more effectively in the Civil War?
Does anyone make a small of the back holster for a Colt Walker? I'm only asking because I keep getting unwanted attention when I carry it in my Thunderwear.
Oh, good point, I had forgotten all about the richochet factor.... I'm so embarassed.
AKElroy wrote: "I think this has gone just about far enough, young man. You are all raising quite a ruckuss with this tomfoolery. Now brush your teath & head upstairs."
But we haven't even gotten to mean gun shop owners, dumb customers, .45 acp vs. 9mm, .50 bmg vs .22lr, .308 vs 30-06, .270 vs 30-06, motor oil vs gun oil, shoot to stop vs shoot to kill, scopes vs red dots vs iron sights, lasers yes or no, leather vs synthetic holsters, wood vs plastic, the ultimate survival gun, the ultimate gun, and of course the grandfather of them all the brown bess or the kentucky rifle.
What year did John Browning invent the Thompson Submachine gun and which side used it more effectively in the Civil War?
Does anyone make a small of the back holster for a Colt Walker? I'm only asking because I keep getting unwanted attention when I carry it in my Thunderwear.
Tim the student
Member
This is the funniest thread I have read in some time.
I love when people give that whole "...why don't you let me shoot you with ____" line.
Personally, I think I'll just say [dwight schrute]False, bears eat beets![/dwight schrute]
I love when people give that whole "...why don't you let me shoot you with ____" line.
Personally, I think I'll just say [dwight schrute]False, bears eat beets![/dwight schrute]
FIVETWOSEVEN
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I remember seeing one that said he would be willingly shot with a .32 ACP and invited someone to do it. Bet he would have changed his mind when he stood downrange and the gun was raised.
MaggiesPapaw
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>>>What year did John Browning invent the Thompson Submachine gun and which side used it more effectively in the Civil War? <<<<
History shows he began his work on the Thompson in 1822, but didn't perfect it until around 1845. It was considered a military secret of national security magnitude, therefore was not patented until the 20th century, and then only because a Freedom of Information request made by the founder of the HSA (Homeland Security Association), the predecessor to the HOA (Home Owners Association).
Obviously, the West used it best in the Civil War, as they used the .22lr version rather than the .45acp version, as they could carry three times the ammo, (by weight) and could get 300 rounds in the drums.
The North as well as the South were adamant in their commitment to black powder and percussion caps. The short-sighted bean counters considered the cost of individually cased rounds vs powder by the keg to be a luxury no army could afford during time of war.
History shows he began his work on the Thompson in 1822, but didn't perfect it until around 1845. It was considered a military secret of national security magnitude, therefore was not patented until the 20th century, and then only because a Freedom of Information request made by the founder of the HSA (Homeland Security Association), the predecessor to the HOA (Home Owners Association).
Obviously, the West used it best in the Civil War, as they used the .22lr version rather than the .45acp version, as they could carry three times the ammo, (by weight) and could get 300 rounds in the drums.
The North as well as the South were adamant in their commitment to black powder and percussion caps. The short-sighted bean counters considered the cost of individually cased rounds vs powder by the keg to be a luxury no army could afford during time of war.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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LOL, Man you guys are cracking this poor old man up too much.
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