Colleges: Don't use real weapons, throw your laptop at 'em

[MD_Willington]

WSU in Pullman WA

PLAY DEAD

Lookup their policy....

 

[Green Lantern]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm kinda glad to see the article.

As others have said, when you don't have anything better, improvised weapons CAN work. Just posted in a thread where an unarmed woman fought off a pistol-packing carjacker to save herself and her kids.

While CCW on campus is of course a much better answer, the fact that people are starting to remove their heads out of their backsides and see the need for self-defense at all is a GOOD thing, and a step in the right direction. IMO.

 

[hopelessjoe]

Do none these collage mambie pambies have a set (of balls, male or female) anymore. I carried and I knew that being discovered would lead to being banned for life.

Better to be banned than dead. Better to be arrested and charged than dead.

What will the next set of instructions be?

"In the event that there is no more retail food shopping, be sure to nail your potential prey with your Ipod squarely in the temple since it hasn't had power for quite some time and you are now insane with hunger!"

 

[ColinthePilot]

I think this is great, for the mean time at least. Theres a thread in the Tactics section about unarmed defense. Its great to complain about unarmed victims zones, and we should continue. But in the mean time, people need this type of knowledge to be available. Unarmed victim zones are a fact of life for the time being and we can't expect people to roll over and die, all the while wailing and grinding teeth over the gun they can't carry when they could be using other means to fight back.

 

[myrockfight]

While CCW on campus is of course a much better answer, the fact that people are starting to remove their heads out of their backsides and see the need for self-defense at all is a GOOD thing, and a step in the right direction. IMO.

As I have said. I agree with you. I don't think we are in the minority though. I think it will just take some time. Hopefully, we will not have to endure another massacre while we are waiting.

 

[JDoe]

Here's the trailer for "Shots Fired"

"Shots Fired" trailer

The Center for Personal Protection and Safety is composed of former U.S. Department of Defense and FBI officials, responsible for much of the US Government's current teaching and training on crisis negotiations, workplace violence, abduction prevention and hostage survival situations. It is the parent organization of the Safe Travel Institute (www.safe-travels.com) and National Hostage Survival Training Center (www.hostagesurvival.com). Program developers, Randy Spivey, Jim Sporleder, Eugene Rugala, and Steve Romano are recognized leaders in personal safety issues; are in demand as speakers, and appear regularly in media outlets including CNN, MSNBC, Fox News Live, New York Times, USA Today and Forbes Magazine.

Here is the trailer for another video they offer for travelers called "Safe Passage"

 

[Steve Raacke]

Hey, I am all in favor of teaching the sheep how to defend themselves with whatever is at hand. It's sad that we have become so docile that this has to be told to someone but it's better than nothing. We dont' allow them guns so we have to teach them something to defend themselves. I'm fine with it then I read this part....

The sort of aggressive survival response cited by Brouillette troubles school violence researcher Loren Coleman, a retired University of Southern Maine professor.

Showing students violent images of school shootings could trigger post-traumatic stress or other reactions that resident advisers, graduate assistants and similarly untrained workers would be unequipped to handle, Coleman said.

And the techniques shown in instructional videos such as "Shots Fired" could provide inspiration for troubled students considering their own acts of violence, Coleman suggested.

So telling people, if you are facing a deadly threat you should fight for your life is considered troubling? Well, Heck. I'd be troubled by the nut attacking a classroom full of people more than the thought of having to break my Dell computer across his head in a life or death struggle. Something is mentally wrong with people who think like professor Colman. I'm a libertarian. I beleive in less government. Yet when I read comments like the one quoted above I start to think that maybe we have become too soft as a nation. Maybe we need to remodel our schools like old boarding schools or military academies. Give our next generation the skills and mental conditioning we have seemed to have lost over the past few decades. We are too worried about pampering and coddling our citizens.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I saw this article on a news site I frequent, and had 3 comments:

Rules for a Gunfight:
1) Bring a gun
2) See rule #1


The "strength in numbers" defense.
Hmmmm, I think they use to call that a "Bonsai Charge". If I remember correctly, that side lost the war.

"Improvised weapons" ... like a laptop
Needs to back to the "American Films" class and watch "Raiders of The Lost Ark" again. I'm thinking specifically of the scene where Indy dispatches the swordsman.

Lastly ... at Virginia Tech, 6 of the people in the classrooms that were shot up were CCW holders ... two were ex or current military. All had their weapons at home or in their cars. How different that might have been if they had been allowed to exercise their god given right of self defense?

 

[romma]

Geez, what if one of these laptops hits an innocent victim?

 

[Aka Zero]

This seems to me like "someone mgiht have a gun, and since that might happen, we won't let you be armed, whack them with a book"

Why not just allow ccw permit holders to carry, arm the guards, arm the teachers..... and well, the guy WANTING to shoot people, gets shot instead.... Not shoots people that are trying to book him to the ground.

 

[357WheelGun]

The program — which includes a video showing a gunman opening fire in a packed classroom — urges them to be ready to respond to a shooter by taking advantage of the inherent strength in numbers.

Ahh, yes. The old, "If we have 50 people walk in front of the tanks, we can go right through a minefield without worrying about damaging the tank" theory. Just rush the shooter with enough people, eventually he'll run out of bullets and the few students left standing can take him out. I mean, sure, this virtually guarantees additional casualties, but hey, we're all only here to serve the collective, right?

Sheesh.

 

[230RN]

mgkdrgn:

Lastly ... at Virginia Tech, 6 of the people in the classrooms that were shot up were CCW holders ... two were ex or current military. All had their weapons at home or in their cars.

Is that accurate? I thought it was 6 CCWers over the whole campus. (And how would anyone know how many anyhow--was it merely an estimate based on the number of Permittees in the population at large?)

My personal opinion on stuff like the training class is that it is a good thing --opening the awareness of any population to the effectiveness of concerted action against an attacker can't be bad. Sure, having self-defense firearms would be good, but that is not the reality of the situation as it stands at present.

And to make jokes about using any missile that is handy, including water bottles, coffee cups, and laptops, is unproductive.

In the same vein, demeaning the duck and cover drills (in which I took part many times in grade school) is ridiculous. Sure, caught within the fireball, it won't do any good. But a couple of miles away, many injuries (and deaths) would have been avoided. Sure beats standing by a window and getting torn to shreds by flying glass and other secondary missiles, or just standing there openmouthed and getting hit by the inevitable falling debris.

There's a place and time for sarcasm and satire, but knocking this program for the sole purpose of satisfying oneself with a good sneer, is not very productive. Let's analyze the efforts of the administrators and authors of the program realistically, shall we?

230RN said that.

P=> 0.80 that mods will move this to tactics and strategies within an hour of my posting this.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Hmmmm, I think they use to call that a "Bonsai Charge".

A bonsai is a little tree.

A Banzai charge is a human wave attack, accompanies by shouts of "Banzai!"

 

[bowl443]

Who brings a book to a gun fight??

You can throw your own laptop... For the money spent on a good laptop, i could have got an EMP

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I was in England some years back, and there had been some brutal rapes in the area. The police were advising women, since guns and pepper spray were illegal, to carry perfume spray.

Typical liberal mindset, "We agree you need a weapon, but you can't have a weapon that works."

 

[Bubbles]

And how would anyone know how many anyhow--was it merely an estimate based on the number of Permittees in the population at large?

In VA the CCW list is public info available from each county's circuit court. Someone probably cross-referenced the names and addresses of the victims with the permit holders.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I don't see why the survivors of those who had CCWs do not sue the University -- violation of civil rights leading to death.

 

[shdwfx]

The program — ... — urges them to be ready to respond to a shooter by taking advantage of the inherent strength in numbers.

I wonder if these liberal pacifists were inspired by their Soviet brethren in WWII?
Men were more plentiful than guns, so they sent hoards of them unarmed to face the enemy.
The idea was they could gather weapons from the fallen.

 

[#shooter]

We just had the emergency preparedness lecture by our emergency service coordinator (ESC) and the police chief (PC) at our school (IUPUI). The first half was of the lecture was about what to do with an active shooter on campus the last half was natural disasters. It is basically what is described in the article. There was an escape and evade component and if cornered a fight back component. Our PC acknowledged outright that the police usually do not make it in time when there these incidents occur. They advocated self defense and personal responsibility as the best method to deal with a shooter if you could not get away. No one mentioned trying to reason with the attacker.
This is a good first step for colleges and universities because it acknowledges that the police will likely not save you. It also puts another nail in the coffin of in loco parentis which still has a strong grip on college campuses.
This movement also has some CYA flavors as well. No one wants to inherit VT’s “largest student massacre” award. Preaching self defense and responsibility also relieves some of the legal pressure off of the university if a situation occurred and victims wanted to sue.
At our meeting the ESC and PC asked who would like to have weapons on campus, dejectedly I was the only one out of a room of 100 or so people that raised his hand. They then proceeded with the “guns should not be allowed because the police will not be able to tell the murderer from the victim” defense. The audience bought it and nodded their heads in agreement. My chuckling was not appreciated.

 

[Drgong]

Let teachers and staff with CCW at highschools, and students,staff, and teachers with CCW in college carry if they chose to. If I Recall correctly, 20 out of the 22 students killed at VT died AFTER the police arrived. the majority of college students could afford a Nagant or a PA-63, and even one guy with a nagant (which I am pointing out as its not a ideal self defense gun) could of saved dozens of lives.

 

[hankdatank1362]

I'm suprised, that after searching, I could not find a firearm disguised as a laptop. The closest thing I found was the Magpul FMP-9.

 

[doc2rn]

appear regularly in media outlets including CNN, MSNBC, Fox News Live, New York Times, USA Today and Forbes Magazine.

Are you kidding me! This alone discredits the jokers.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Lastly ... at Virginia Tech, 6 of the people in the classrooms that were shot up were CCW holders ... two were ex or current military. All had their weapons at home or in their cars. How different that might have been if they had been allowed to exercise their god given right of self defense?

Can that be confirmed?

 

[mike101]

Laptop vs 9mm. My money is on the 9mm.

 

[COMPNOR]

Ahh, yes. The old, "If we have 50 people walk in front of the tanks, we can go right through a minefield without worrying about damaging the tank" theory. Just rush the shooter with enough people, eventually he'll run out of bullets and the few students left standing can take him out. I mean, sure, this virtually guarantees additional casualties, but hey, we're all only here to serve the collective, right?

Sheesh.

Kinda funny considering a THR member suggested the same thing about the Kirkwood Council Meeting shooting. Charge the "madman".