Conversation With A Wal-Martian Re: Gun Sales

[the pistolero]

The other day I was in one of my local Walmarts here in Southeast Texas, and I'd heard from one of the workers there that Walmarts everywhere were going to stop selling firearms and ammunition. So far I'd heard that a certain number of Walmarts were only going to stop selling firearms. So I took a stroll to the back of the store and struck up a conversation with the sporting goods dept. manager regarding the subject.
They said that they figured Walmart would keep selling ammunition for a long time, but that particular store was going to phase gun sales out with the next store remodel. And it doesn't really have anything to do with gun sales themselves, as the company had already yanked guns out of several stores in the region that apparently sold quite a few of them. I must admit I was surprised by this, as I really thought Walmart's No. 1 driver was having what the customer wanted, and considering they have so many stores in pro-gun areas, they'd at least try to muscle in on some of that market and doggone the bureaucratic and political difficulties. Ah, the naivete of youth.
But here's what really surprised me: The dept. manager there told me they thought one of the biggest reasons that particular store was phasing them out was harassment from the feds, i.e., the ATF. The manager told me it more or less came down to the way the 4473s were handled, that the ATF would crack down on the smallest things -- for example, if they put "TX" instead of "Texas" on the line where it says to list your state of residence, it would lead to a fine. Why? They said it was basically because Walmart was a big corporation, with deep pockets, that the ATF did it because they could. Take from that what you will. I know they're nitpicky with the smaller gun dealers, too -- my FFL called me in a few months back to fill in the county of residence line on all the 4473s I'd filled out there, just to make sure everything was kosher for his next audit, whenever that was -- but I think it'd be interesting to see how widespread this phenomenon was as far as Walmart was concerned. I am of a mixed opinion on it myself; I see it as a win for the gun business in general -- the smaller, more knowledgeable mom-and-pop stores getting some of the business Walmart would have gotten. But I think it's a shame that the feds would still go after a business with deep pockets just because they could.

 

[dracphelan]

for example, if they put "TX" instead of "Texas"

The one time I bought a firearm at a Walmart, they were very insistent on me not using abreviations. This explains it. At times, I wonder if the ATF's goal is to put itself out of business by running the gun dealers out of business. :banghead:

 

[oneshooter]

Two of the Wallyworlds in west Houston have quite selling guns. They both continue to sell ammo.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[bogie]

I used to live in St. Louis City. It is NOT part of St. Louis County. Sometimes filling out a 4473 was an adventure.

"No, I don't live in a county. Nope. Not a parish either."

 

[spooney]

He was telling the truth, it is a $10,000 fine, per mistake, per form. We have at least one coming up on our next audit, as one of our moron clerks let someone scribble out a yes on a no question and write in beside the correct answer.

 

[#shooter]

Filling out a form correctly is too difficult for many Wal-mart employees. What do you expect from people who have to call a supervisor to tell the difference between a zucchini and a cucumber? We just got a new Wallyworld and they do not sell firearms and they have a poor selection of ammo unless you like WWB. They don’t even sell and BP rifles or supplies. To my knowledge you don’t have to jump through all the ATF/FFL paperwork for BP rifles. They are like cigarettes you just have to be older than 18. I don’t know why they got rid of all the BP stuff. BP is the one thing Wal-mart had over some of the local gun stores. Most locals don’t carry it and the ones that do have high markups.

 

[UnintendedConsequences]

Interesting

If a gunsmith/dealer makes a mistake, they get figuratively crucified and generally no one dies. If the BATFE/FBI/DEA messes up, there is blood and guts of innocent people splattered all around like a fresh coat of paint in a newly remodeled room.

What is that saying? "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

As for whether Wal-Mart will continue with ammuntion sales, I think as someone already said, it depends on the store. The closet one to me may not have any after this fall hunting season, but most definitely no more firearms by the end of July 2006.

I may dislike the business practices of the corporation, but they did sell firearms in so many places. However, with that segment gone, it gives smaller dealers a chance to sell more of their inventory.

 

[Werewolf]

Lots'a gun guys believe that Walmart has stolen business from the small, dedicated gun shops. Undoubtedly that is true but there is another factor besides hurting the local gun dealer that should be considered concerning taking guns out of Walmart.

Only a tiny proportion of the rabble ever visit a gunshop while I'd bet that 90% of the US population has been in a Walmart at one time or another and every time they go there they probably walk by the rotating gun cabinets Walmart displays their guns in. And every time one of them walks by if there's even a 1% chance it dawns on them that hey - those guns aren't leaping out of the cabinet and hurting anyone or stops to take a look gun owners win.

Like it or not Walmart has huge exposure. Take guns out of them and lots and lots of folk who otherwise might never see a gun in their entire lives except at Walmart now will never see one. My gut tells me that's not a good thing and just makes the anti's job that much easier.

 

[mnrivrat]

Just to confirm as the local Wal-Mart here just emptied it's gun racks the last time I was there. (south central Minnesota) Apparently it is spreading company wide.

My local dealer has also been hassled by the ATF regarding the use of abreviations for the state of residence. I would guess they do that because the ATF workers sometimes screw up when logging in the address - not being able to tell the difference in states by the 2 letter abreviation ?

Whatever it takes to drive gun dealers out of business seems to be what the ATF is working on.

 

[BryanP]

It doesn't appear to be all of them. I was just in my local WalMart this morning. They have recently completed a full interior remodel/rearrangement. They did move the firearms out of those rotating displays you could get next to and into a wall-rack behind the counter, but that was it.

I've never bought a gun at WalMart, just ammo and targets, but I'll be very disappointed if they knuckle under.

 

[Hoppy590]

needless to say,most walmarts out here stoped selling arms recently. its funny, i was in a Criminal Justice class, and one of the ladys in the course was surprised that walmart sold guns. all i could think is, lady. ive been in general stores that sold guns.

the talk about exposure, to those who normaly would never see one is true. theres an exchange student from japan who has never seen a gun, so he was excited to find out some walmarts carry them.

as for the ATF, i bet there making a killing off any forms i have to fill out. i alway abv. (see i did it there ) but thats mostly because, despite living here my whole life. i still cant spell massachusetts right. ( i had to spell check that. i always put 2 S and only 1 T. donno why.)

 

[Rabbi]

I've only bought ONE gun from Wal-Mart about ten years ago. It was a Remington 870 pack with slug barrel and vented field barrel. It was a closeout at $165.00 and I couldn't pass it up.

I had to initial EVERY SINGLE entry on the yaller form. Every "yes", every "no", a couple of n/a answers and even my name, address, city, street and county, etc.

It took me forty minutes to do the paperwork and then the clerk had the cubes to get on the loud hailer and say, "Management to Sporting Goods to escort a firearms purchaser out of the store". About fifty neck-craners watched my sleazy criminal ass leave the store with my green and gray box and management type bodyguard.

Wally smokes the bone.

 

['Card]

I've heard the ATF-harassment explanation several times, but I'm not completely certain I buy it - at least, I'm not convinced that's the primary reason. Let's face it, Wal-Mart is one of the few organizations on the planet with the lobbying clout, marketing machine, and behemoth rabid legal department you'd need to convince the ATF to back off if they really wanted to do so.

If Wal-Mart thinks something is profitable, they're going to do it, and pity the fool that tries to stop them. If they were making money selling guns, they'd keep selling them. Period. If they're going to stop selling them, then it means they don't view them as being a profitable product, now or in the near future.

There are a lot of things that factor into that basic equation, and one of them may well be fines from the ATF, but you've also got declining profit margins, increased legal liability, lack of interest and loss of sales in the mix. But however you add it up, at the bottom of some beancounter's spreadsheet guns are spitting out a negative number, and that's all that really matters.

 

[ravencon]

Whether or not China-Mart stops selling guns is if of no consequences to me. I would NEVER buy a firearm or ammo from them.

Indeed, I rarely shop there for anything. And when I fall from grace and do shop there I feel very contrite afterwards.

 

[rwc]

I think it would be fair to say that within the NW legal/LEO community BATF is perceived by some as the organization with the least sense of humor...

 

[iiibdsiil]

I think they've come to the realization that the people they have working there should NOT be responsible for completing a firearms transaction.

 

[Soybomb]

My little tiny back of the woods pawnshop/gun store made me change IL to Illinois once. I don't' think the ATF cares how deep a FFL's pockets are, it seems like they're all about equal opportunity umm well fill in your own verb

 

[KINGMAX]

Wal-Mart & gun sales

I have bought several guns from Wal-Mart,, i.e. Ruger 10/22, Remington 700 ADL, Remington 597, Remington 870, Mossberg 500, etc......
When one of the clerks in sporting goods see's me he, will reach for a federal firearms form. He knows I am there to buy something.

Wal-Mart is a source for ammo as well. Last week I bought two of the mega-packs of .45 acp., 500 rounds for $80.00, = that aint bad. (Note = it was on sale). Wally-World is a source for my cleaning supplies as well. I surley hope they will continue to sell firearms for a long time. The Sporting Goods manager indicated that guns were a high volume item for this store. I do not know what the mark-up is on a firearm, anyone out there know??

 

[CajunBass]

Every gun store I've bought a gun in recently told me "no abreviations". NONE. Why not? Because the ATF says so, and it's a heafty fine for every violation.

Now, I don't know if the ATF is trying to drive dealers out of business or not, but it seems a small thing to do to write out "Virginia" rather than "Va." if for no other reason, to annoy the ATF people.

The last couple of Wal-Marts I've been in still had guns and ammo. I might have to go buy a gun there just to support them. I guess you can't have too many 10/22's.

 

[larry_minn]

atf has been on MISSION to reduce number of FFLs for yrs. ANY mistake/non mistake they will fine and if they can get fines high enough they will "make a deal" with FFL. The deal is simple. "you agree to not renew your FFL and turn in ALL your 4473s and we will wave the fines for these infractions"
Some (infractions) I have seen. Abreviate state name. (using LEGAL abreviations) Putting "USA) for country or even "United States" (must include "of AMERICA"
DOB not clear. One gent put THAT DAYS DATE. atf said FFL sold gun to person under 21. (as DOB was date of sale it would be to a infant less then day old) The FACT that guy had bought 4 other guns in last year and had correct DOB (on old style forms) didn't matter. FFL had to call guy and have him drive to shop BEFORE atf left.
The old 4473 had two pages. One page was explanation of first page. You did NOT make any marks/sign/inital/etc second page. I asked for second page to read. NOPE he got in trouble as some had second page removed.
Anything to harass FFLs.

 

[45Badger]

Y'all gotta move to Pennsyltucky! Walmart still sells guns and ammo and better yet- My local FFL and the local Gander Mountain must have great relationships with ATF. Abbreviations are not a problem. Gander Mt. guy specifically said abbreviations were fine yesterday while I was picking up the MINT Series 70 (old one) for $529

Maybe I just have legible handwriting ? Maybe they're sure I mean Pennsylvania, and not my dad?

 

[OldSchooler]

My WM told me today that their license expires on the 28th and they wont be renewing. Ammo and gun stuff will go on. Guns are out.

Gotta be regs and ATF crap. Why else would they turn down the chance to get more of our money?

 

[gezzer]

Ammo needs no Federal License to sell.

 

[evan price]

Coincidentally, I spoke at great length to a fella working at the nearby Super Wal*Mart yesterday.

My local Wal*Mart was on the way home and I am in the habit if I need to swing in somewhere to pick something up, if that place sells ammo I buy a box or two- great way to build up stock a few at a time instead of cases at a time. WWB 9mm 115gr 100-packs are $11.98 at my WM. I bought two and then noticed some red CLEARANCE price tags on the ammo shelves. They had CCI Blazer Brass 50-ct 9mm 115gr clearanced for $5 a box! Well I bought them all. This led to me driving down to Super WM about 20 mins away to see what THEY had on clearance. They had the giant 250rd packs of .45acp clearanced for $40 so I bought the only box they had. Also a box of .38spl WinClean JSWC for $9 on clearance. But the CCI 9mm's were NOT on clearance at that Wal*Mart. They had .40 S&W range pack of 250rds clearanced, also .25acp clearanced but I don't own anything in those calibers so left them there.

The Super WM ammo clerk is a very knowledgeable guy I won't repeat his name but he is a gunny and if half his stories are true he is a really interesting fella. What he said was, Wal*Mart was getting away from the rotating cases and going to behind-counter cases with lights in the rebuilds. Smaller WM's will most likely not carry any guns, only the SUPER WAL*MART may have guns. Most stores will stock ammo but in limited quantites and types, and usually only have maybe one box of each except in hunting season they would stock up on hunting calibers and shotgun shells. The Super wal*mart would carry more ammo in more calibers but again, not going to find anything but pedestrian ammo there. The "Urban" WM's would most likely phase out ammo/guns altogether.

He told me, it was due to
#1, Not being able to find and keep clerks who could get their sh*t together enough to get customers to correctly fill out the ATF paperwork, and then get fined $10,000 for selling a $99 Savage .22 rimfire rifle to someone who wrote "OH" instead of Ohio. Wal*Mart will not pay extra for someone competent enough to be trusted with FFL forms and a lot of the people you hire off the street won't want to sell guns anyway so they don't take the time to check details ("Okay, umm, like, you have to answer questions and junk on this form & umm, some stuff, okay dude?")
#2, Liability if WM sold something to someone who wasn't supposed to have it, either underage/felon, or else, takes their new WM gun and shoots up a preschool or something (Seems WM lawyers and risk mgmt people get fainting spells from imagining headlines like "Pre-School Shooter Got Gun At Local Wal*Mart!")
#3, Competition from online ammo dealers and other places that sell guns. When you figure how much ammo WM actually sells, and average that profit over a daily basis against the expense of stocking it, it's really only pennies a day.



We also discussed concealed carry at Wal*Mart. He said (And anonymity is maintained here!) that anyone open carrying, printing out, or in any other way being "outed" would be immediately asked to leave. He said in the past 3-4 months the Sheriff has been called to evict 2 people for being "outed" while carrying who got "rowdy" when told to leave (And from what he described these people were pretty much open carrying with minimal if any cover) and a couple more who were actually open carrying in thigh or belt holsters were stopped by the greeter and told to leave. (Note: This store has no signs and is not posted WFZ by Ohio law so CCW is legal here.) He also said CCW was not allowed by employees.
What was interesting about this fella was as he was standing there in his Wal*Mart vest and nametag he was himself carrying. I won't go into any more details so as not to get this guy in trouble.

 

[Dieselbuilder]

My mom works at the local Wal-mart which is currently undergoing remodel, and she told me that they too would be no longer carrying firearms when the remodel was completed.