Customers Coming Into Gun Shop Armed

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

First, let me start by saying that I DO NOT have a problem with persons
going armed where lawfully and legally permitted. I do so myself all the
time.

But for what its worth, yesterday I had a gentleman in his mid 60's come
into our firearms sales department carrying a black tote bag. Suspicion
grew as he approached the sales counter, whereas he opened the bag
and stated he wanted to get grips for several guns. He then proceeds
to pull from the bag a Beretta 92fs Inox, a Remington-Rand 5" "Officers
Model" .45ACP with adjustable sights, a Colt Huntsman, a Tec-9 (pistol),
and a Keltec .380; all of which were loaded, with one "up the pipe" so
to speak.

He was interested in purchasing sets of grips for the Beretta, and the
Colt. He began by pulling each of these guns from the bag and waving
them around wildly; explaining to sales personel where he had bought
each gun in his possession. I immediately stepped in, took control of
the situation, and very carefully unloaded each weapon. After a brief
friendly chat (explaning store policy), the gentleman apologized and
we continued with his purchases. It all worked out for the good, cuz
he ended up buying a NIB .44 magnum Henry "Big Boy" from me; along
with lots of other equipment.

Not too be critical or mean, but in my way of thinking this fell'a knew
in advance that he was coming to a gunshop, whereas he wanted us
to install the grips he hoped too purchase. You gotta wonder, why in
the heck did he not unload the firearms to be serviced before arriving?

Moral of the story is, if you are going to a gunshop to have a particular
gun worked on; please make certain that the firearm in question is
UNLOADED. It could save us all a lot of grief~

FootNote: We welcome all customer's, armed or not!

 

[Shovelhead]

A Buddy of mine is a gunsmith.
He'll be the first one to tell you that he has removed cartridges from MANY "Unloaded" firearms when they are presented to him to be worked on. :banghead:

It probably never occurred to the gentleman to bring them in unloaded.

Unfortunately, ignorance on his part could get someone killed.

 

[BeLikeTrey]

actually it ended well for all

not all of us were trained in the RULES properly. Good on you for instilling in him at least one or two of the rules of firearm safety. You may have saved somebody's life down the road. Alot of people look to the gun counter and learn alot. You guys are supposed to be knowledgeable and you proved it.

 

[Pilgrim]

A gun shop I worked in had a couple of bullet holes in the walls from when the owner assumed the customer had already unloaded his weapon before leaving it for repair.

I was surprised there was more than one hole.

Pilgrim

 

[bogie]

Safety Rule 0 (of the 5 safety rules...): People are inherently stupid, so always be very, very paranoid.

 

[ID_shooting]

my ccw stays loaded when in the shop but if I hand it over I check and clear it in a safe direction. If I bring in somthing to be worked on, it is checked and cleared and the action is left open before I walk in the door.

I just think that is proper etiquette.

 

[GRB]

I will readily agree the guy who walked into the gun store and then started waiving around loaded guns that he had carried in a bag was extremely unsafe. I think it is unsafe to carry one loaded gun in a bag, let alone more than one. I think is extremely unsafe to take them out and waive them around in a commercial setting as did this guy. Yet I do not agree, in every instance, with the following:

Moral of the story is, if you are going to a gunshop to have a particular gun worked on; please make certain that the firearm in question is UNLOADED. It could save us all a lot of grief

. I have often gone to gun stores to acquire something, when something else caught my eye. Maybe an accessory for my carry firearm even though I had not been looking for something for my carry gun. Go figure - I am out shopping! Well, guess where my carry firearm might be in such a case. It would be on my strong side hip in a holster. Guess the condition of the firearm. It would be loaded. Heck, even if I knew ahead of time that I would be shopping for something for my carry firearm, if it was functional, the gun would be on my strong side hip, in a holster (as it is always carried) and, it would be loaded. I carry it that way unless it requires repair for something that is busted, I do not 'carry' broken firearms. If I want to have grips installed by the retailer to see how they feel, I tell him I have the gun, it is on my hip, it is loaded, do you have an unloading station where it is safe for me to draw and then unload. If they do not, I do not. They may lose a sale or, I may come back some other time, or I may buy them try them and return them.

My point though is: I am not being unsafe by entering your establishment with a loaded gun for which I may want to purchase an accessory such as grips; that is of course dependant upon how I am carrying it and dependent upon how I act within safety parameters. For all you know this could be my only firearm and I may have extremely good reason to carry it on my hip while loaded, even while coming to your store. I would hope you would not expect me to unload it on the street before entering or out in the parking lot, or in my car - that would be unsafe as compared to unloading it at an unloading station in your shop. I would also hope that you, being a responsible gun shop owner, would have made provisions for me to unload safely at an unloading station in your shop.

In my opinion, any gun shop, that is worth visiting, should have an unloading/loading station. This would be good business and good safety. Just as any range should have at least one, so should a gun store. For a gun shop not to have a safe unloading area would be, in my viewpoint, quite irresponsible. There is, in my opinion, absolutely nothing wrong with safely drawing and unloading a firearm in a gun store or any other regular firearms type location when safety conditions are met and subsequent to getting the ok from the employee on duty. Of course, having a gun unloading station will not prevent whackos or otherwise unsafe gun handlers from entering your establishment but, since you were getting them anyhow it may behoove you to have a safe area to load and unload firearms. It may even be nice to have when safe gun handlers, those who ask permission first before doing anything with a live gun, come into your store. Of course, it would also be nice to have an unloading station for the guy who comes in with a gun that he cannot unload either out of ignorance, or because of malfunction. After all - you are running a GUN SHOP not a lingerie shop, so guns and bullets together sort of come with the territory. Of course you could always post a sign saying no loaded guns allowed, in which case I and many others quite possibly would shop elsewhere. A sign stating "DO NOT HANDLE ANY FIREARMS UNTIL ASKING PERMISSION OF THE MANAGER - THIS INCUDES ANY YOU BROUGHT TO THE STORE" may be a good idea. Heck, maybe 4 or 5 such signs are in order. Just my .83 cents (darned inflation) for what its worth.

Best regards,
Glenn B

 

[El Tejon]

Good advice, AD. Always Eddie Haskell up.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Some of the local gun stores here specifically have a sign that states all guns that aren't CHLs coming in must be unloaded with an open chamber or in a case. Of course, that doesn't cover loaded firearms in cases. I honestly haven't been present when someone was acting stupid or sweeping others with the muzzle...but perhaps I haven't logged enough time at the stores for that to happen. *knock on wood*

 

[carebear]

Glenn,

I think Dan's point was more along the lines of if you are bringing a particular gun in with the intention of having work done or leaving it there have that gun unloaded. Not "unload everything prior to entry".

I suppose if you have just one carry then you are going to carry it loaded to the store and walk away naked, but if you have a spare you might as well carry the one going in for work empty in a case or bag and leave the loaded one on your hip.

If there's an impulse purchase for the gun on your hip then by definition you have to unload in the store (if required by the purchase).

In the old guy example, carry one hot and leave the rest empty, simply to save time and potential for an AD while unloading guns you are just going to be trying grips on anyway.

 

[Old Dog]

Seems to me that behavior such as demonstrated by the customer might be an indication of some ... not clear thinking -- early onset Alzheimer's? Other mental disorder? "Waving the guns around wildly?" Frankly, that just doesn't seem normal to me. And it seems like more than just plain stupidity or ignorance of basic gun safety concepts. And yet y'all still ending up selling him another handgun?

 

[Blackhawk 6]

Dan's point is well taken.

"DO NOT HANDLE ANY FIREARMS UNTIL ASKING PERMISSION OF THE MANAGER - THIS INCUDES ANY YOU BROUGHT TO THE STORE"

I would rather see that sign than the all too common "NO LOADED GUNS." I would probably throw a "PLEASE" on the front and change "THE MANAGER" to "AN EMPLOYEE."

 

[Gung-Ho]

Did he at least follow rule one....."Keep your booger hook off the bang switch."?

 

[TallPine]

I take great pains not to upset or scare anybody with my guns. (that doesn't include hoplophobes to whom any sight of a gun causes a panic attack - but not many of those in MT )

Like this past week when I was looking for a new holster (the one I had was falling apart): I unloaded my 357 at the car (dropping the cartridges in a front pocket) and carried it in with the cylinder open and my fingers around the top strap. If I was carrying in an uncased rifle, then the action would be open to demonstrate its condition.

Of course, revolvers are much simpler to unload than a semi-auto pistol. Once you swing the cylinder out, it is effectively disabled - even before the cylinder is emptied. And no chance of leaving a round in the chamber.

 

[Onmilo]

Well,,,,we don't have issue with customers coming in armed but if they are looking for new grips, new sights, etc. we expect them to bring the gun in unloaded. Concealed Carry Weapon means just that, I don't want to see it unless something really, really bad happens.
Yanking a fully loaded handgun out of a gym bag and waving it around will get you shot in our shop. enough said.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If there's a sign on the sun shop door that says guns have to be unloaded, I take my dollars elsewhere: I'm a citizen, not a serf.

 

[Daedalus]

Here is something I have seen that I always thought was a good idea: Get a big mason jar and put a card on it that reads "Cartridges from "Empty" Guns" . Put a couple in there to make up for the ones that got away. Place it in a prominent location. Should give everyone something to think about and if someone does give you a loaded "empty" gun take the cartridge and put in the jar, along with a safety lesson that they probably will not forget.

 

[GRB]

I understood Dan's point and that is why I did not disagree with it whole heartidly but instead did so with reservations. I was more pointing out that there are times when someone will come in with a loaded gun no matter what the gun store owner wants because of a number of possible reasons, and then it would be highly recommended to have that unloading station. Maybe I did not phrase it best but that was my main drift.

All the best,
GB

 

[dolanp]

The point is you shouldn't be handling a loaded weapon in any situation where you aren't about to shoot it. If it's tucked away in its holster then its safety mechanisms are in place and the trigger is not in danger of being pulled.

 

[GRB]

The point is you shouldn't be handling a loaded weapon in any situation where you aren't about to shoot it.

That is not the point, it never was the point - not of this discussion. As a matter of fact, a statement like that is nonsense in my opinion. What you just said means that no one would walk through the woods with a loaded rifle while hunting (yes I have hunted with a loaded weapon in my hands and never fired it once on that hunting trip). No police officer would ever draw a weapon while searching for a bad guy. Furthermore no one would ever draw and present a weapon for firearms inspection to be unloaded by an instructor (as is required by many agencies). In addition no one would ever unholster a pistol to unload it for such things as cleaning or safekeeping. Sorry but such blanket statements just don't cut it when talking about when you should handle a loaded firearm.

I think the topic was more about not being a jerk with a loaded firearm and, that it would be safer to bring an unloaded firearm to a gun shop when bringing it there for repairs instead of waving around loaded firearms like a completely irresponsible ignoramous.

Best regards,
Glenn b

 

[Ala Dan]

Many thanks for all the reply's folks. I simply just wanted too share this
experience with THR team member's to let them know too be on the look
out when visiting your favorite gun shop.

ATT: Glenn Bartley

The idea of a "55 gallon clearing drum" filled 1/2 way with sand sounds
like a good idea. The top (opening) should have a hinged steel trap type
door, with a rubberized pad in front to lay weapons on. Then when one
clears a weapon, it should enter the "trap like" door and be pointed into
the sand pit. That way, if an AD occurred everybody would be out of
harm's way! Good idea, I will look into that this week~

 

[greyhound]

Dan-

Wow, that is a rum 'un. Carrying all those loaded guns in a tote bag would seem a little odd; much more so than someone carrying a CCW in a regular holster.

I would imagine there's lots of "odd things" anywhere someone comes in contact with "John Q. Public".

 

[Ala Dan]

Greyhound My Friend-

Yes, it was quite odd; but everything worked out well. The old gentleman
is even suppose to return this week to puchase a safe.

 

[carebear]

Dan,

As I am sure you know, if you want the clearing station inside the shop they of course make them smaller (usually snail drum type). And in either this month's Rifleman or SWAT they have a little Kevlar pad that, it seems, you can lay almost anywhere for a clearing check safe backstop.

I was looking at that for whenever I get space for a home shop again, instead of the firewood pile out back. (course, I have to get back into a house first.... )

 

[Fred Fuller]

AlaDan,

When I was growing up, my gunsmith was Ralph Walker in Selma. Back then there was an office up front of the little white cinderblock building that was his shop, with a counter across the width of it. On the wall behind the counter was a heavy duty shelf. There was a row of one- gallon glass pickle jars on the shelf, each full of a variety of ammo.

Under them was a large sign saying something like REMOVED FROM "UNLOADED" GUNS...

Never take anything or anyone for granted when guns are concerned, all people are idiots from time to time including me (I have never been as big an idiot as that customer of yours, but one slipup can do it...).

Stay safe,

lpl/nc (born in AL tho)