Dangerous customers in gun shops

[jfrey]

Lone Gunman, you are right in your intentions, but wrong in practically. As a highschool teacher, I can tell you first hand that very few parents teach their kids anything anymore. A lot of parents today expect educators to baby sit for them, get their kids an education and find them a job when they are through.

There are certainly a few parents who take the whole parenting thing seriously, but those ranks are dimishing as every year goes by. My dad taught me about guns and I taught my kids, but many folks are just too busy to be concerned about such things. It's just easier to get someone else to do it and not have to handle the responsibility.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Actually, I agree completely with you. If you go back and look at my original statement, I said that the problem is a lack of self reliance and a desire for the government to do all the teaching to our children. Not just academic, but things like gun safety, morality, sex ed, etc. The lack of fathers in the house, and a lack of actual parenting have got us into the state we are in.

 

[largecaliber]

I have shot with police officers who have done the same thing at the range and I was surprised by their lack of safety procedures. Be aware of the muzzel at all times is what I was taught at a very young age. I guess that most people are not longer taught safety by their parents.

 

[Zoogster]

Personally, I think you are wrong. Firearms education should be taught by parents to children, and the lack of knowledge most people have is what happens when families break down, fathers are not in the home, and America moves from a nation based on personal self reliance to one based upon a cradle to grave nanny state.

I agree, however there will always be the percentage of the population that does not apply to. The population with single mothers for example, or bad parents.
It will always be better if provided by good parents, but it is better than nothing if provided by a school system that is alrready required by law for the majority of a child's years. The government already is setup to indoctrinate children for about 12 years, and more if you include college. If they really wanted a good outcome of firearm safety that would be included in the curriculum.

They however view firearms as a bad thing, and teaching firearm safety might make just 1 more person buy a gun than would have otherwise. So a bunch of ignorant people, with a larger anti-gun agenda population, and a few pro-gun people ignorant of firearm safety is the result.
That is the desired outcome. Rather than everyone being comfortable and knowledgeable about firearm safety.

My point is not that government is a better replacement for parents teaching firearm safety or sex ed. But if they are going to show kids how to put on a condom they might as well shown them how to point guns in a safe direction.



Face it even a child with great parents spends more waking hours being programmed by the curriculum and the associated views of the curriculum than by a parent. A child in public school spends 6 fully awake hours. Then they get homework for the hours they are not at school to think about. Most parents spend far less with thier children on a daily basis. That means for many the mindset designed by the government curriculum will be the dominant influence. They might rebel as teenagers, but by the time they are responsible adults it will be those influences that shape who they are and the associated views will be at least as strong as those of the parents they spend far less time with in thier developing years.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I don't think I am convinced. I do not see how it is a good idea to let some left wing Obama apppointee in the Department of Education set the curriculum for courses on gun handling. I am sure that will be quite a program.

 

[Parrothead-G23]

Rule 1

Just bought our first handgun this week. The person who sold it to us really drove Rule 1 home. If the gun is out of your sight even for an instant, it is to be considered loaded - no exceptions. He also stressed taking gun safety/handling class at a local range, even recommending specific instructors to us. We also learned what to do if there is a gun in your car and you are stopped by law enforcement. I double checked the info given with two city policemen (different cities) and a sheriff's deputy to be sure that they saw it the same way. They agreed completely... grasp by the barrel and lay on the dash with the gun pointing directly at yourself.

I'm fortunate to have a son-in-law who is a Federal Agent - DHS - who carries and who has educated me over the years how dangerous it is for a law enforcement officer when a car is pulled over. And, he taught me what to do to respect the officers and the job that they do. Now that we are going to be carrying concealed (once we've been certified and licensed), it's even more important that we know what to do and what not to do.

 

[thorazine]

I have only once been swept with a gun in a gun shop by some idiot. I walked up and calmly told him that it was unsafe for him to sweep someone with the barrel of a gun. He responded that it was unloaded so there was nothing unsafe about it.

Assuming his finger was not on the trigger when he swept you with the muzzle how is it any different than the firearms (mostly handguns) sitting in the display case?

 

[SCKimberFan]

Assuming his finger was not on the trigger

NEVER assume anything!

 

[Old Guy]

While working in a friends Gun Shop, in comes the hunter... He can not open the bolt "No it has not got a round in the breech!"
Working with a small mirror and a flash light, seemed like I could see a metallic gleam!

Took the Rifle down to the workshop, a plastic mallet popped the bolt open, when I pulled the bolt back... an unfired .308 round came sailing out, told him to come back tomorrow!

The owner charged him good, $1.00 for the repair, the rest was for pointing the rifle at me! Plus he did not smell of booze in the day!

 

[TAB]

after working ina gun shop, nothing shocks me any more when it comes to handling skills... I also can't tell you how many loaded "unloaded" guns came thru my hands.

 

[kyo]

Mikey Israel lets anyone walk around with a gun for safety. I believe it is pretty effective, and justifiable given that it is literally a 24 hour war zone there. When I go there I plan to pick one up if I can rent, or just flat buy one and have it sent back to the US through FFL after. That place isn't a joke.
On topic response- the gun shop owner should be the first to say something. If he doesn't then technically it is all of our responsibility to teach the clueless.
off topic- if you don't want non christians and non white, and non straight people teaching at your schools, you better start home schooling. lol.

 

[catspa]

I agree with LG that parents should be teaching gun safety to their children, but some parents won't/can't/don't have the skills themselves. In my county, and probably yours as well, these parents can bring their children to safety classes sponsored by the state Department of Fish and Wildlife. There is a $5 fee, and I have seen my fellow instructors pay it for a student whose parents' money was tight.

We are all volunteers, and dedicated to providing this important service. Here we hold 5 classes per year, graduating about 175 students - some locations hold classes more often where the demand is higher.

We don't turn away hindus or gay people, because we figure they should have a chance to learn responsible gun handling techniques just like anybody else. So this resource is available to any citizen who is not prohibited from gun ownership.

Really, when you think of the potential consequences, there's no excuse for bad gun handling.

Parker

 

[Joe Demko]

I have tolerance for all kinds of people. Tolerance is not the same thing as respect. I can tolerate bigots. I just have more respect for bigots who are up front and honest about their bigotry.

 

[Greg_TX]

Assuming his finger was not on the trigger when he swept you with the muzzle how is it any different than the firearms (mostly handguns) sitting in the display case?

Because someday he might wave a loaded gun around the same way? Or worse yet, wave around an 'unloaded' gun and do something stupid, and maybe deadly, because he didn't think there was a round still in it. 'Unloaded' guns can be the most dangerous of all.

 

[rscalzo]

I usually spoke to the applicants who came in for their FID card and handgun purchase permits. Many were first time owners who had no idea of firearm operation or what they were going to purchase for that matter. It was easy enough for me to compile a list or area firearm's courses and local gun clubs.I give a strong suggestion that they think about signing up or joining. We had way too many tragic events involving firearms to think buying a firearm and not getting some sort of instruction is not foolhardy.

As far as the educators handling that area, what else do you expect them to teach your kids? I've seen parents who expect to drop the kid off at birth and expect the government to handle it from there. As my town now has kindergarten and pre-K, kids are shipped off at age 3. It's the nature of things today with two wgae earner households. But the attitude today is if the Kid's not behaving, call someone to handle it. Frankly I've deal with and known a lot of teachers in my LE duties. they couldn't pay me to take that job.

 

[06]

I have a hole in me from an unloaded gun. They are all loaded and when one got pointed at me at a gun store he got a good lesson quickly about it.
Lone, say what you want buddy-some things need to be said. I don't like my kids being taught by wierdos either. That is why they were taken out of the public school system early on. wc

 

[bain]

I'm 56,and remimber growing up with parents showing us how to use guns.Also had gun saftey courses in Boy Scouts(they don't do that anymore around here).We also had a county shooting range.Thats gone now also.Its ok to teach kids how to drive.how to have sex.but not how to be safe with a gun.I just dont get it.You'd think that the liberals would a least wont gun safety taught by a compatent person.

 

[bottom shelf]

Maybe not in a gun store, but this is interesting anyhow. Saturday morning I had the opportunity to be one of the instructors for some Boy Scouts going for merit badges in rifle and shotgun. I was on the rifle range. They were using single shot bolt action .22s with peep sights. Before the shooting started, there was an RSO addressing them as a group about how to operate the rifle. Loading, ejecting, sight alignment, how to use the bench rest, etc. The whole time he was explaining, he had his finger in the trigger guard and on the trigger.

 

[woodybrighton]

seen military with bad drills.
nearly had my head taken off with a baton round
one way to stop a riot
rioters too busy laughing as a copper and soldier trade punches
never assume anybody is competent.

MR this is my safety catch from the black hawk movie. would have been going hungry till he cleared his weapon.

 

[rbernie]

We are still allowed opinions arent we?

Sure y'all are.

But just remember that the only one's that you're allowed to express here are the ones that are about GUNS - not about religions, sexual orientation, or other such subjects. You wanna talk about gay Hindu PE teachers - take it to PM or APS.

 

[aprayinbear]

Blame it on the liberals?!

It's easy to blame Liberals for the lack of gun safety education, but how many of us here would support a licensing law which stated that all gun buyers must complete a firearm safety course? And further, how many of us would be willing to take that license away if the holder were stopped for drunk driving, was charged with assault, or was found recklessly waving a gun around a gun store?

Because both sides are so paranoid of the other, commonsense solutions that offer access and safety are overlooked.

I wish everyone would take more responsibility and be willing to do a little more to insure both access and safety.

 

[Gaffer]

As a Personal Protection Instructor I am amazed at the lack of gun safety knowledge and skill that the average American has. Whether is is parents or schools that are failing is beside the point. The point is that darn few are being brought into the gun owning fold and that is scary enough as it means we have a huge deficit to overcome.

With the poor gun handling in most media today the average person who wants to learn is ill equipped to learn proper gun handling skills unless they take a course. Most don't have a clue that every gun should be treated as loaded and most wave them around as if they were cell phones. Scary to say the least and downright pucker time for the average instructor.

 

[Cannonball888]

Back on topic. It's the responsibility of the gun shop to keep idiots from sweeping people. Safety of in-shop customers is their responsibility. If they do nothing then they need a stern talking to as well.

 

[Joe Demko]

Aren't accidents with guns actually down from where they were in grandpa's day despite overall higher levels of gun ownership?

 

[Grey_Mana]

IMO: gun shops, and the gun area of box stores, should post the safety rules on big prominent signs. Ranges likewise.

I'm surprised that big companies aren't giving away branded posters and floor mats with the safety rules emblazoned.

Regarding teachers, I'd like to see hunters' education and basic pistol become requirements for getting a teaching license. At the very minimum, if a child sees a gun, leaves it alone and tells an adult, that adult needs to be able to secure the gun efficiently. Especially so in a school. If a kid brings a gun to school, and the teacher needs to take it, that teacher needs to be fully competent.