What are people who are under 21 supposed to do when they have to walk to work ? You have to be 21 for a concealed weapons permit yet those under 21 have to go through some pretty sketchy places. is it better to obey the law and get shot, stabbed, mugged, or even killed or disobey and at least have a chance? I know of at least 2 stories of people being killed within 2 miles of where i live one at an atm for 75 dollars and one over 10 so what are the younger people to do?
defense outside the home under 21
- Thread starter Sobel
- Start date
- Status
allaroundhunter
Member
Pepper spray or find a safer route.
well all the roads go in the same general area one would have to circumvent a distance 3-4 times longer i just don't understand why u can't get the permit at 18 so one doesn't have to be victum to Florida's criminal demographic.
USAF_Vet
Member
Pepper spray or some other form of non-firearm weapon, such as a knife or cane, plus the training to know how to use them.
Telekinesis
Member
You're not going to find many people here recommending that you break the law (this is a public forum after all). Though there may be ways to legally carry depending on FL law. I'm not a lawyer and I'm by no means up on Florida law, but there are several states that issue non resident CCW permits to people over 18 but still under 21 that may have reciprocity with FL. You will have to check the laws carefully and still be prepared to be arrested if a LEO doesn't believe you (though assuming you're right, you will be released).
Because a lot of people don't understand that 21 is only the limit to transfer a pistol from a FFL and 18 is the limit to possess the same gun Federally. I have a bunch of horror stories about people who didn't realize that I could legally possess my pistol while I was under 21 (thank GOD I'm done with that!).
Apart from that, you might look into a knife, collapsible baton, pepper spray and/or avoiding the area completely (probably best). You'll have to check some of the local laws too as there are specific lengths of blades that are considered ok for carry and some that aren't (most places won't let you carry a combat knife in your pocket), as well as the possibility that they could consider a baton as a concealed weapon and treat it similarly to a firearm (again, I'm not up on FL law, check it first). And a disclaimer, just because you carry a knife doesn't mean you know how to effectively fight with it. Same as a gun, get some training if you can.
Because a lot of people don't understand that 21 is only the limit to transfer a pistol from a FFL and 18 is the limit to possess the same gun Federally. I have a bunch of horror stories about people who didn't realize that I could legally possess my pistol while I was under 21 (thank GOD I'm done with that!).
Apart from that, you might look into a knife, collapsible baton, pepper spray and/or avoiding the area completely (probably best). You'll have to check some of the local laws too as there are specific lengths of blades that are considered ok for carry and some that aren't (most places won't let you carry a combat knife in your pocket), as well as the possibility that they could consider a baton as a concealed weapon and treat it similarly to a firearm (again, I'm not up on FL law, check it first). And a disclaimer, just because you carry a knife doesn't mean you know how to effectively fight with it. Same as a gun, get some training if you can.
It really varies, but I think the best bet is to avoid the area and keep their wits about them, which 18-21 year olds are notoriously bad at. I imagine if this age group is victimized at a higher rate than others it is due to that fact. Like they always say MINDSET, skillset, toolset. The best thing they can do for that 3-year period is learn situational awareness and keep their heads on swivels.
Kendal Black
Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,647
Going out of your way to avoid problem areas is a good plan, even if you have a pistol.
Okay.
Okay.
Bobson
Member
I have to agree with Kendal, thought what Telekinesis said about an out-of-state CC permit with reciprocity in Florida is a good idea. I don't know if you'll be able to find one, but its worth looking into at least.
What part of Orlando are you in? I used to live in Altamonte Springs, then later moved to Winter Park.
What part of Orlando are you in? I used to live in Altamonte Springs, then later moved to Winter Park.
Strykervet
member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 1,610
Yeah, an out of state permit MIGHT work, but I'm not a lawyer. You also might be able to get a permit early if you have good reason. I've heard of that. Kind of like how 12 or 14 yo can drive trucks in NE. Has to be a truck though, and for farming purposes, but they drove to school. Funny seeing elementary kids driving to school, but it is common out in the prairie.
Dude, I know how you feel. The main reason I carry is due to the fact that when I was younger, I was on the receiving end of a lot of violence. I've been held at gunpoint a few times, and beaten by ten guys, barely survived, went and knocked on a stranger's door and one of them came back to finish me off (he had his hand down the front of his pants coming accross the road and he was alone) but the guy that answered the door aimed a double barrel at the dude and he took one more step to dare him but the hammers being locked back did the trick. Had he not answered, I was going to break the door down and probably would have been shot myself. I was cornered.
It is horrible that in some instances younger folks can't be armed. Exceptions should be made for circumstances like yours, but a lot of people don't quite get it until they've been in our shoes, so you get a one size fits all law. For the most part, 21 isn't a bad age for CC.
If you have a bus, I'd look into that. First thing you should do though is call a lawyer. Goldman or Goldberg, he does NFA trusts in FL and he knows firearms laws inside and out. He's the big reason trusts are popular today. In case you didn't know, lawyers offer free advice over the phone, a lot of folks don't take advantage of this, but you should. If there is a loophole, that guy will know about it for sure.
I'm in my 30's now, I carry all the time, but now for some reason I'm not such an appealing target. When I couldn't carry, I was constantly in trouble, but I also grew up in the South which is in my experience a much more violent place than WA, where I live now.
Pepper spray may be your best bet. Nobody will advocate you breaking the law on here, but truth be told, I had to do it myself. This was 15 years ago, so statute of limitations is over and I live on the other side of the country now so I feel safe talking about it on here. The third time being held at gunpoint and surviving that beating (cops said it was a gang initiation and that I was supposed to be killed, that they screwed it up) was enough for me to say screw it. Oh yeah, and while I was being beat, at least one cop drove right by it and didn't do a thing until called. Your safety and life is in your hands and only you can make that decision. That the government has put you in a catch 22 is unfortunate. Still, my advice is to call the lawyer and see if there is a way around it.
Last thing you want to be caught with is a concealed weapon between the ages of 18 and 21. The consequences could be such that you can't carry ever, in FL anyway. But that is a decision you have to make for yourself.
Finally, if they want to be @sses about it, you might be able to get away with carrying a rifle in public. Not sure about how you have to store ammo, likely it has to be unloaded. But you can get rounds in a bolt action pretty quick and folks aren't inclined to mug people toting rifles around. Still, call the lawyer to see how this works and where you can carry it. That stupid school zone garbage can be an issue if you have to go anywhere near one.
Good luck, be safe, and know there are folks that know where you are coming from. Now go find that lawyer I mentioned and give him a call. Look up the name on Google along with FL and NFA trusts, you'll find him.
Dude, I know how you feel. The main reason I carry is due to the fact that when I was younger, I was on the receiving end of a lot of violence. I've been held at gunpoint a few times, and beaten by ten guys, barely survived, went and knocked on a stranger's door and one of them came back to finish me off (he had his hand down the front of his pants coming accross the road and he was alone) but the guy that answered the door aimed a double barrel at the dude and he took one more step to dare him but the hammers being locked back did the trick. Had he not answered, I was going to break the door down and probably would have been shot myself. I was cornered.
It is horrible that in some instances younger folks can't be armed. Exceptions should be made for circumstances like yours, but a lot of people don't quite get it until they've been in our shoes, so you get a one size fits all law. For the most part, 21 isn't a bad age for CC.
If you have a bus, I'd look into that. First thing you should do though is call a lawyer. Goldman or Goldberg, he does NFA trusts in FL and he knows firearms laws inside and out. He's the big reason trusts are popular today. In case you didn't know, lawyers offer free advice over the phone, a lot of folks don't take advantage of this, but you should. If there is a loophole, that guy will know about it for sure.
I'm in my 30's now, I carry all the time, but now for some reason I'm not such an appealing target. When I couldn't carry, I was constantly in trouble, but I also grew up in the South which is in my experience a much more violent place than WA, where I live now.
Pepper spray may be your best bet. Nobody will advocate you breaking the law on here, but truth be told, I had to do it myself. This was 15 years ago, so statute of limitations is over and I live on the other side of the country now so I feel safe talking about it on here. The third time being held at gunpoint and surviving that beating (cops said it was a gang initiation and that I was supposed to be killed, that they screwed it up) was enough for me to say screw it. Oh yeah, and while I was being beat, at least one cop drove right by it and didn't do a thing until called. Your safety and life is in your hands and only you can make that decision. That the government has put you in a catch 22 is unfortunate. Still, my advice is to call the lawyer and see if there is a way around it.
Last thing you want to be caught with is a concealed weapon between the ages of 18 and 21. The consequences could be such that you can't carry ever, in FL anyway. But that is a decision you have to make for yourself.
Finally, if they want to be @sses about it, you might be able to get away with carrying a rifle in public. Not sure about how you have to store ammo, likely it has to be unloaded. But you can get rounds in a bolt action pretty quick and folks aren't inclined to mug people toting rifles around. Still, call the lawyer to see how this works and where you can carry it. That stupid school zone garbage can be an issue if you have to go anywhere near one.
Good luck, be safe, and know there are folks that know where you are coming from. Now go find that lawyer I mentioned and give him a call. Look up the name on Google along with FL and NFA trusts, you'll find him.
MachIVshooter
Member
We don't ever advocate breaking the law on THR.
However, it is usually only a misdemeanor to carry without a permit if you did get caught, which you shouldn't unless you were defending against a deadly threat. In that event, the old proverb "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" applies.
I carried at 18.
However, it is usually only a misdemeanor to carry without a permit if you did get caught, which you shouldn't unless you were defending against a deadly threat. In that event, the old proverb "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" applies.
I carried at 18.
you have the best response in my eyes , and being 5'6'' surely doesn't strike too much fear in the bad guys these days. I do understand nobody is going to say break the law. Seems like bad guys get the better part of the deal in this country. Can you carry a rifle around? I'm getting a mosin nagant 91/30 for christmas for other reasons. What would someone call that? unconcealed carry ?
Ask a lawyer if you can carry something like this in a case:
http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-p...lue-frame-and-grips-p32hcnv-640832000665.aspx
You don't have to zip this case.
I know some people carried like this in Illinois.
http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-p...lue-frame-and-grips-p32hcnv-640832000665.aspx
You don't have to zip this case.
I know some people carried like this in Illinois.
Well I currently own a cz-82 I just wish lawmakers understood just because many kids here have wealthy parents and can drive wherever they have to go some can't and have no choice but to go to work.
Was kind of in the same boat with you but I was living in costa rica for a while near San Jose main city and I couldn't legally carry a firearm I had other improvised weapons my main carry was a boker plus clb trance good knife. (first off I would like to say if you don't have knowledge of what you are doing or honestly think you could go through ultimately killing someone don't bother carrying anything because it will probably be used against you) but I heard there were people constantly people getting mugged in my area some worse then others mainly due to the fact that its getting closer to the holidays they know people carry more money with them My place almost got broken into until I scared them away with my new machete I bought there but that's another story. Overall knowledge and situational awareness is key. If they are gonna mug u for 40 bucks then just give it up but if u got nothing and they will kill u in the end depending on how u are do what ever u need to do to survive.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Got $20 you can spare? Buy this book - http://www.amazon.com/dp/1594392137...ning.com/Site//Home_files/widget3_markup.html - Rory Miller's Facing Violence.
Most of the violence faced by young men today is what can be referred to as social violence, aka "the monkey dance." It's unusual (but still possible) to encounter predatory violence, however much of what goes on that makes the crime report in the local paper is in fact social violence. Learn how not to get involved in the monkey dance and you will avoid most potential problems with violence.
In the same vein - It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed. - Rory Miller, from his book Meditations on Violence, http://chirontraining.com/Site/Home.html
The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. This is the advice I give to all students of defensive firearms. Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable. - John Farnam, http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html
How do you learn to recognize a situation where criminal violence might develop? See http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html .
And likewise very important, see also http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States of Awareness.htm
The above is just a minor introduction, there is much more out there. In short, your MIND is your primary weapon, everything else is just a tool. There is no age limit on the material above, just a requirement to be mature enough to recognize the value of the material, learn it and put it to use. A gun is only one tool, and you have access to an entire toolbox if you will but recognize that fact and make use of it. A completely gun-centric attitude toward self defense is likely to cause more problems than it ultimately solves, while a gun is indeed useful in certain defensive situations, it is not the be-all and end-all for self defense. Nor is a gun a magic talisman that will ward off evil by its very presence - much is required of the gun owner as well.
Lots of "gun guys" really seriously don't like to think about this sort of thing, and it might sound strange for this kind of apparent heresy to appear on a "gun board." But there it is...
Most of the violence faced by young men today is what can be referred to as social violence, aka "the monkey dance." It's unusual (but still possible) to encounter predatory violence, however much of what goes on that makes the crime report in the local paper is in fact social violence. Learn how not to get involved in the monkey dance and you will avoid most potential problems with violence.
In the same vein - It is better to avoid than to run; better to run than to de-escalate; better to de-escalate than to fight; better to fight than to die. The very essence of self-defense is a thin list of things that might get you out alive when you are already screwed. - Rory Miller, from his book Meditations on Violence, http://chirontraining.com/Site/Home.html
The best way to handle any potentially injurious encounter is: Don't be there. Arrange to be somewhere else. Don't go to stupid places. Don't associate with stupid people. Don't do stupid things. This is the advice I give to all students of defensive firearms. Winning a gunfight, or any other potentially injurious encounter, is financially and emotionally burdensome. The aftermath will become your full-time job for weeks or months afterward, and you will quickly grow weary of writing checks to lawyer(s). It is, of course, better than being dead or suffering a permanently disfiguring or disabling injury, but the "penalty" for successfully fighting for your life is still formidable. - John Farnam, http://www.defense-training.com/quips/2003/19Mar03.html
How do you learn to recognize a situation where criminal violence might develop? See http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html .
And likewise very important, see also http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States of Awareness.htm
The above is just a minor introduction, there is much more out there. In short, your MIND is your primary weapon, everything else is just a tool. There is no age limit on the material above, just a requirement to be mature enough to recognize the value of the material, learn it and put it to use. A gun is only one tool, and you have access to an entire toolbox if you will but recognize that fact and make use of it. A completely gun-centric attitude toward self defense is likely to cause more problems than it ultimately solves, while a gun is indeed useful in certain defensive situations, it is not the be-all and end-all for self defense. Nor is a gun a magic talisman that will ward off evil by its very presence - much is required of the gun owner as well.
Lots of "gun guys" really seriously don't like to think about this sort of thing, and it might sound strange for this kind of apparent heresy to appear on a "gun board." But there it is...
it would be different if i was walking to someplace i didnt belong but i only go to a hobby shop , and 7/11 during this less than 2 mile walk there are some real angry looking folks the kind with the pitbulls that happen to be all dressed in matching colours. Even in my appartment complex there have been shootings some guy came home at 12 in the afternoon and was shot 3 men broke into his appartment , cars get vandalized and people get robbed. So you understand my desire to have some sort of weapon not something that burns their eyes something that creates such a reason for them to leave me alone that their 3 friends decide to leave as well. I know guns aren't magical forcefields but i understand that short of decking myself out in kevlar everything when i take a walk it seems like the best option.
Birch Knoll
Member
Nope. Florida does not honor non-resident permits from other states, only resident permits. A Florida resident cannot carry in Florida using an out-of-state CCW permit.
so there is no hope. could one carry a rifle?
Bobson
Member
Would you rather be unarmed, and stabbed; or would you rather be illegally armed, use your weapon in a justified defense situation, and have your right to own guns stripped for the rest of your life? I'd rather be stabbed, to be totally honest.
But if I didn't wanna be stabbed, I'd find another way.
Last edited:
So I should let them kill me because if i kill them ill just get killed later down the line. America certainly has some real smart lawmakers notice how i didn't say they got stabbed one was where a man was beaten by 3-4 men the other was shot so either way im most likely dead till im 21 then ill be able to actually defend myself. or i could spray them in the eyes with pepper spray and hope i get every single one.
allaroundhunter
Member
Sobel, what you want to hear and what you are going to hear are two completely different things. I, like you, am over 18 but under 21 with no military background. Therefore, I cannot get my CHL until I am 21. To keep from being killed, I always keep a knife that I have been trained in how to use, and occasionally pepper spray with me. But I ALWAYS avoid areas that can spawn threats to my life. Yes, even if it means a little extra walking.
Trust me, there are plenty of people who have walked through tougher neighborhoods for more than a few years and without a gun that are now over 21....
cor_man257
Member
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2011
- Messages
- 105
Im in your age bracket, but Im also a Veteran... so I veiw things a little differently.
The best thing I can tell you? Try not to walk alone. If your working at a 7/11 ask a bud if he wants to hangout for a few minutes before your shift starts. Get a ride from a bud. Your friends aren't going to think your a little girl because your afraid of being beaten half to death, AGAIN. They will understand and help if they can.
If thats not really an option, than change your route around it. I understand 3 or 4 times the walk is bull. And if you truely dont have the time (which is doubtful. Leave earlier) than maybe you should consider a bike. Its hard to get mugged when your flying down the street and nobody can catch you. Its a fast exit from a bad spot.
If you want to hear your only answer is get a gun and carry, than its what your going to hear. I understand the age restriction stopping you when you need it. I really do. But hey I am legally allowed to get a permit early, and Im telling you it wont happen. Just wont. Im a vet and Im still waiting to be 21.
If you have no other way, and are looking for defensive ideas... learn some basic martial arts. I mean BASIC. How to throw a punch, how to take a punch. Maybe an elbow strike, and some basic wrestling. Just incase. You could get a knife, but check laws about it. And If thats your plan, learn how to use it. And realize that a knife is an attackers weapon. Its going to hang you in court when you get painted as a hoodlum with a knife. Pepperspray. If you get it, test its range. Than get a new can. And If you need it. Than use it and run. RUN. Leave the area.
And than when some situation comes up... If you have to look like a (female dog) to walk away from it than look like a (female dog). It isnt worth dying over.
The best thing I can tell you? Try not to walk alone. If your working at a 7/11 ask a bud if he wants to hangout for a few minutes before your shift starts. Get a ride from a bud. Your friends aren't going to think your a little girl because your afraid of being beaten half to death, AGAIN. They will understand and help if they can.
If thats not really an option, than change your route around it. I understand 3 or 4 times the walk is bull. And if you truely dont have the time (which is doubtful. Leave earlier) than maybe you should consider a bike. Its hard to get mugged when your flying down the street and nobody can catch you. Its a fast exit from a bad spot.
If you want to hear your only answer is get a gun and carry, than its what your going to hear. I understand the age restriction stopping you when you need it. I really do. But hey I am legally allowed to get a permit early, and Im telling you it wont happen. Just wont. Im a vet and Im still waiting to be 21.
If you have no other way, and are looking for defensive ideas... learn some basic martial arts. I mean BASIC. How to throw a punch, how to take a punch. Maybe an elbow strike, and some basic wrestling. Just incase. You could get a knife, but check laws about it. And If thats your plan, learn how to use it. And realize that a knife is an attackers weapon. Its going to hang you in court when you get painted as a hoodlum with a knife. Pepperspray. If you get it, test its range. Than get a new can. And If you need it. Than use it and run. RUN. Leave the area.
And than when some situation comes up... If you have to look like a (female dog) to walk away from it than look like a (female dog). It isnt worth dying over.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
See post 15
In addition work hard, go to school, and improve your life. Or join the Military.
In addition work hard, go to school, and improve your life. Or join the Military.
wheelgunslinger
Member
The world is a dangerous place. The more tools in your toolbox, the better. Train your brain.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
