Don't buy a Cooper

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UnAmerican?

I'm in agreement it's unAmerican to lose one's job and business because of political beliefs. They used to do things like that in Germany and Russia about 60 years ago. Look at the big picture folks. Dan Cooper will be a wealthy man with or without the extremists buying his guns. You're not all as important as you think you are.

UnAmerican to have your customers cheesed off because you publicly endorsed someone your customers don't like?

No, the customers have every right to be cheesed off. He has the right to speak his mind, and his customers have the right to turn their backs on him.

Not as important as we think?

You may be onto something there. When a company or the company's executives convince themselves that their customers are "not as important as they think" often that little bit of arrogance will show through in some publicly visible way, and the customers, who have their own ideas about their importance, and how they want to be treated, can be counted on to take their custom down the street.

The Dixie Chicks forgot who their customers were. They said something -- aloud and on tape -- that cheesed off their customers. They lost a lot of those customers.

Nobody's rights got trampled. The Chicks spoke their minds, and the customers spoke theirs.

So it is with Dan Cooper. He's free to speak his mind. His customers are free to abandon him.

His board of directors, however, having a financial stake in the continued prosperity of the company, might take a dim view of his doing -- in public -- something that harms their revenues.

They are free to pull their funding. Nobody's rights are being trampled. He's free to mouth off. They're free to stop financing him.

You're free to say whatever you please.

If you cheese someone off in the process, don't start whining about the First Amendment. Your customers are not the US government. Your customers won't pass laws limiting your freedom of speech.

Your customers will simply leave.

He gambled that his customers would a) agree with him, b) not find out, or c) not care.

He was wrong.

 
His customers are like anybody else I've ever met who buys guns..................Driven by cost. I'd like to see how many of us wouldn't buy a Cooper if the price was right. I'd bet most gun buyers morals take a back seat to the pocket book. I don't like whining. There are legitimate ways to spend our thoughts/time if we want to promote gun rights, but this ain't one of them IMO.
 
Horsemany said:
He's done more for shooting than any other gun mfg. I've ever heard about. He invites hundreds of salesman and customers out to his ranch for a week of shooting every summer. They shoot aspirins and Dan has his personal 223 floating around with 30,000 plus rounds through it.

No offense - but how is having a yearly shooting party doing anything for the 2A? It's a gunny version of the family BBQ. Look to Barrett if you want an example of putting your money where your mouth is.

Sounds like you have a dog in this fight...
 
Sounds like you have a dog in this fight.

Yeah. I think attacking gun mfg's right now is stupid. You want to make sure your 2a rights are safe? Let's be *&^ssed at Ruger for not giving us high cap mags, Cooper for donating to Obama, Smith & Wesson for giving into the Clinton's, etc.etc.

SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE. It doesn't help the cause to attack companies that make guns or gun related products even if they disagree with you sometimes. That's my dog in the fight. Flame away.
 
Let's be *&^ssed at Ruger for not giving us high cap mags, Cooper for donating to Obama, Smith & Wesson for giving into the Clinton's, etc.etc.

Yes let's. Let's also buy guns from Ronnie Barrett and others like him.

Sounds like a good plan to me, glad you are finally on board.
 
Horsemany said:
Yeah. I think attacking gun mfg's right now is stupid.

Why? Because they're valuable allies in the fight against the antis? Exactly - unless they support the antis themselves, whence they cease to be allies. Just because the guy happens to make guns, doesn't mean he doesn't subscribe to the notion that clays shotguns and expensive bolties (which he just so happens to make, lookie there) are A-OK, but uncouth things like handguns and EBRs have no place in civilian hands. This applies to any firearms manufacturer, not just Cooper, and has been proven in the past. Remember Ruger?

Your position makes no sense.
 
I'd like to see how many of us wouldn't buy a Cooper if the price was right. I'd bet most gun buyers morals take a back seat to the pocket book.

I wouldn't buy a Cooper at any price, niether would patrinize any gun dealer that sold them. And I would make sure ( as I did when I called Joe at cooper ) the dealer knew why I wasn't buying from him.

The Dixie Chicks analogy is appropriate, and to parphrase "W" " He shouldn't get upset if people don't want to buy his rifles" :D

If you know Cooper tell him bye bye for us
 
We'll have to agree to disagree Tactical Ninja. Right now I want anyone who mfg's firearms to do well. ESPECIALLY American companies. The fact that he designs and produces guns says more about him than who he supports for prez. IMO. Different way of seeing things I guess.

I don't know Cooper but from what I've heard he's wealthy enough to live through an attack even from THR. WHy not email him and tell him "bye" yourself.
 
Yeah. I think attacking gun mfg's right now is stupid.

No one is attacking Mr. Cooper's rights, we are simply exercising our rights in a free market economy not to purchase his rifles and to make it known why we're not
 
Horsemany said:
Different way of seeing things I guess.

Not really. All I'm saying is that the fact that he makes guns doesn't necessarily mean he supports gun ownership or the 2nd Amendment as a whole, outside of his own personal niche in the business.

So, while he's obviously A-OK with people buying his high dollar bolt-actions (he's not that stupid, at least) the fact that he contributed towards Obama's campaign proves his willingness to throw owners of other types of firearms under the bus.
 
No one is attacking Mr. Cooper's rights, we are simply exercising our rights in a free market economy not to purchase his rifles and to make it known why we're not

To attempt to hurt him financially could be seen as an attack don't you think?

Not that there's anything wrong with that if that's your perrogative. I'm simply saying that's not my opinion on the matter for the reason's I've already stated. Just remember the Zumbo fiasco. Remember infighting can be used by the anti's to drive a wedge. I'm not saying *&^* negative about an American gunmaker in these rocky times.
 
Just a Fudd defending a Fudd

Changed my mind, I will buy a Cooper ,the day he severs all ties W/ the company :D
 
Treo

I'm sure he's holding his breath. I appreciate the namecalling when someone here has a differing opinion. I guess when you run out of anything relevant..................?
 
If the AWB went through, and Cooper hadn't done this, what do you think would have happened to his business overall?

Also, buddy at a different site tells me about all the people with Obama '08 stickers going into his local store and buying AR's and AK's... they'll probably be thrilled by this Cooper guy, sadly.

Think about the rich ******* who buys a cooper for the stock flame pattern and the engraving and whatnot, and then think about the firearms enthusiast who believes in function before form... which one do you think is more of Cooper's expected audience?
 
Treo said:
I wouldn't buy a Cooper at any price, niether would patrinize any gun dealer that sold them. And I would make sure ( as I did when I called Joe at cooper ) the dealer knew why I wasn't buying from him.

I think you're getting a little ahead on that one. Why hurt a dealer because of the actions of a manufacturer(or more accurately, the CEO, who may well be gone real soon)?

Now, if the dealer continued to order Cooper rifles(or whatever, for that matter), that's one thing. But don't bust a guy's balls just because he has stock on hand he's now stuck with. Just the way I feel on it, anyhow.
 
Clueless?

The fact that he designs and produces guns says more about him than who he supports for prez.

Uh, no.

"Who he supports for prez?"

It may have escaped your notice, but it's not really possible to "support someone for prez" without also supporting his agendas.

There are several agendas of this "prez" candidate with which I disagree, but which don't directly threaten my freedom and liberty.

There is, however, one agenda which directly does threaten my liberty -- and the free exercise of my rights.

And that agenda is the elimination of guns from the hands of the common man.

That "little" thing may not bother you.

For me, it tells me everything I need to know about the man, for it tells me what he thinks of me. It tells me that he believes I should be controlled and subjugated.

I'm not on board with that.

So -- all other agendas notwithstanding -- a desire to disarm the common man, that is, the public at large, is an absolute deal breaker.

There's nothing else important worth hearing from him.

So . . .

Along comes a gun maker, and supports this candidate publicly.

Well, what are the possible motives?

Gun maker is clueless? Doesn't know what this candidate's agendas are? Okay, that's fine, I'll just remind him, publicly, that I disagree with disarming the public and with anyone who has that in mind. That should help him get a clue.

Gun maker is out of touch? Doesn't know who his public is? Okay, that's fine, he'll be hearing from his public. Loudly. That should help him get back in touch.

Gun maker is arrogant? Doesn't care what anyone thinks? Okay, that's fine, those of us who are his customers or might become his customers are free not to care about him either.

Gun maker is greedy? Expects to be one of the few gun makers left standing, and therefore to become stinking wealthy? Okay, that's fine, but I'm free to disapprove of that attitude and take my business elsewhere.

The fact that he has forgotten his customer base and the principles upon which his business depends says more about him than the fact that he makes guns.

The candidate he supports hates me.

I could learn to take that personally, y'know?

There are other gun makers who know who I am and know what the principles are and who know how I'd feel if they supported someone who hates me.

If you support a hater, it won't matter what you make.

I won't be buying it.

 
Fair enough. I'm not in the majority of how I see this I knew that when I jumped in. Good luck to all whatever happens with Dan.
 
<political snip>

BTW it's a customer's right not to buy from Dan Cooper, or from anyone else, for whatever reason he/she wants to. It's hardly "unAmerican." Buying stuff for political, enviro-trendy, or whatever reason is something people do EVERY DAY in America, and generally, the left encourages it.

Is that coffee Fair Trade, Shade Grown, Free Range coffee?
 
cooper took the route of going public nation wide with his support for obama-----and that is his right.

Because he went public nation wide, many gun owners discovered his political stance

Many gun owners are upset and voicing our displeasure and taking boycott actions as it is our right.

So everyone is excersing their rights. Cooper had every right to make his public statement-----and we here on this board have every right to disagree with it.

Gun owners generally do not fall into some of this pc crap that we somehow must bite our lip and not voice our own 1A rights by respecting cooper.

i am still peeved about the aparent down-right LIE about cooper giving multiple donations to mcain. So how can the replacement post the cooper company put up about the 2A and cooper stepping down be accepted as truthfull and accurate?

Now instead of just a political issue, it appears that there is deliberate lies being told by the company---not the man--to the public/gun owners......
 
Political Baiting

I will not indulge political baiting.

You want to enage in political baiting and ranting, you know where to find APS, where political discussion is welcomed.

Posting more blatantly political material in this thread won't get any traction.

 
Haha, they fired the 2nd-Amendment-backstabber!

In response to the recent article highlighting Dan Cooper’s personal political donations, the board of directors, shareholders and employees of Cooper Firearms of Montana, Inc would like to issue the following statement.

The employees, shareholders and board of directors of Cooper Firearms of Montana do not share the personal political views of Dan Cooper.
Although we all believe everyone has a right to vote and donate as they see fit, it has become apparent that the fallout may affect more than just Mr. Cooper. It may also affect the employees and the shareholders of Cooper Firearms.

The board of directors has asked Mr. Cooper to resign as President of Cooper Firearms of Montana, Inc.
Daily operations will continue with the competent staff currently in place in Stevensville, MT producing the finest, most accurate rifles money can buy.

Dan Cooper has spent all of his working life producing the highest quality rifles built here in the USA. He started with nothing but the American Dream and built that into firearms company anyone would be proud of. We firmly believe Dan stands by the 2nd amendment.
We wish him all of the best in his future pursuits.

From www.cooperfirearms.com/
 
Celebration?

I'm not sure this is cause for celebration.

I'm not sure what was going through his mind during his various individual acts on this, but I'm pretty sure what happened to him today falls under "unintended consequences."

I'm not happy he's being publicly pilloried.

I'm not happy he supported a gun-grabber.

We don't need this crap.

Yes, it sends a useful message to the manufacturing community, that the customers care about the 2nd Amendment and are willing to be loud about it.

Still.

I wouldn't call any of this "fun."

Jim Zumbo went through a redemption period and rehabilitated his public image.

I'm not sure what Dan Cooper can do to redeem himself.

This is seriously gonna leave a mark.

You know who I really feel for? The guys working there. The craftsmen who hitched their wagon to Cooper's star. For them, what now?

Gawd. You think any of them are gonna sleep tonight?

 
The worst thing about the mess is Cooper posted a denial on his webpage- explaining he'd given a couple thousand to Obama during the primary to defeat Clinton. He said he does not support Obama and has given McCain more money. Well, some people looked into that- and because of transparency laws regarding contributions it was examined.

Cooper lied- he gave Obama much more and there is not record of him giving to McCain. There are no records of the FEC website of contributions to McCain from him, only Obama:

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $2,100 1/17/2007

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $50 6/6/2007

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $50 7/26/2007

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $-900 2/6/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $900 2/6/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $1,000 2/6/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $-33 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $61 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $33 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $-61 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $33 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $61 3/7/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $-200 4/15/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $200 4/15/2008

COOPER, DAN COOPER ARMS/PRESIDENT / CEO STEVENSVILLE MT 59870 Barack Obama $200 4/15/2008

http://fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/mapApp.do


Does this hurt Cooper employees? Yes it does. It hurts the entire gun community, and it's just a damn shame.
I remember how long time Smith workers felt when the British concern bought them up and went anti gun.

But there's not a lot I can do to help Cooper Arms. I'll never buy one now.
That's a free market response. I respected his right for free speech. He stood up for his beliefs- but then he denied the extent of his contributions with Obama. That is a personal failing.


munk
 
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