Elk hunting with a 223

[eliphalet]

Get this I hear it's actually legal to hunt big game in some states with patched round ball from a flintlock.

With minimum diameter requirements of .45 for deer and .50 for elk, at least that's the criteria here.

Hunting with barely adequate equipment is like fishing with cheap line. Sooner or later if you keep at it your going to hook a trophy. Good luck landing him with the cheap line. I know, I learned my lesson the hard way a long time ago. You won't find me in the woods under gunned, and I no longer own a magnum rifle, or at the river with dime store fishin line.

Edit: forgot I do have a 22 magnum.

 

[marksman13]

I've got no problem whatsoever with people who hunt deer with a 223, provided that they use a well-constructed bullet and practice good shot placement. That said, I don't believe that a 223 is at all suitable for elk unless the conditions are absolutely perfect.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I'd sorta hate to be out deer hunting with a .223 and figure "No problem" for the typical average 8-point at maybe 50 to 100 yards: And off at 250 to 300 yards, there's the B&C critter I've dreamed of for decades.

And that's why I don't hunt with a minimum cartridge...

, Art

Absolutely right...but some of us hunt thick cover. I like to get up close and personal. I took 3 deer last year with a commander length 1911 (my Stinger has replaced my bow)

 

[alsaqr]

From the OK hunting regs.

"No person in the field may possess or attempt to harvest any wildlife, except waterfowl and crane, with a shotgun using shot larger than conventional BB (.180 in. dia.)."

 

[john917v]

A 1 1/4" minimum 22-cal. load, with a 55-gr bullet? That's not much bigger than a .22 hornet, a load that is in use by mostly varmint hunters. You can even find .22 LR bullets with 60-Gr. bullets-the Aguila Snipers, albeit it's a rimfire. A .223-that is used to kill people, who let's say average about 200 lbs. In Somalia, where people were often malnourished, and consequently much lighter and weaker, I imagine, the .223 was not at all a sure-kill bullet. Many soldiers preferred the M-14 because of the heavier-hitting .308 round. Remember, this was all against people. Then, you have an elk that I would say regularly weigh about 600 lbs., with some monsters in the 1200-lb range. We are talking 3-6 times heavier (and far more muscular) than your average human, with a round that does not always kill people with one shot (the .223). Don't think I don't like the .223-I love it, but it has its limitations, and areas where it excels.

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't think comparing military uses is valid. The military has no concern with clean, ethical kills. To incapacitate or stop hostility is sufficient; a wounded person who runs away is of little further concern.

Remember that hunting regs are generally aimed at Joe Average Shooter, or even Dicky Dumbutt.

One aspect of hunting with marginal cartridges is the overall skill level, not just how good somebody is from a benchrest. We must also consider the self-control against "buck fever" or other distractions, as well as awkward shooting positions or an animal's movement. IMO, if you can cope with all that, you're above the average and it's a different deal.

Just some things to think about in the difference between, "Can I...?" and, "Should I..."

Art

 

[koja48]

I can and have done a lot of things with a 223, but I'd never consider it for big game . . . that's why God made larger calibers . . . bring enuff gun & ensure the selection makes for a clean, humane finish.

 

[ArmedBear]

IMO, if you can cope with all that, you're above the average and it's a different deal.

True enough. And the few I know who are above the average don't use .223 for anything that doesn't live in a hole in the ground.

 

[john917v]

Art and Armed Bear, I have to agree with you on that one. Good points. On the topic of the .223, I wonder why there are relatively few bolt-action varmint rifles in .223, even though it is such a good (and common) small game cartridge.

 

[ArmedBear]

.22-250 is popular among the most pernicious elements of the Varmint Kong.

I've certainly handled some damn nice varmint bolties in .223. One in particular comes to mind due to its unconventional beauty. Built on a Howa varmint action, it has a hand-made top-grade figured walnut sporter stock, so it looks like a gorgeous custom sporter with a thicker barrel. Shoots like the prairie dog gun it is, though.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Is there any valid reason ego aside to hunt big game with a .22 CF?

If you can't afford at least one suitable centerfire rifle for hunting deer and elk then I would suggest you can't afford to be hunting at all.

 

[Harley Quinn]

I can remember when the first gun should do the job from one end to another as far are big game went...The old 30-06 or 308 comes to mind.

A friend of mine could only afford one gun and it ended up to be a 300 H&H from a friend who was broke. He felt that was the best he could do at the time "1965"...

This is an interesting read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_H&H_Magnum

It is a good one for Elk.

Gary

 

[Ridgerunner665]

If you can't afford at least one suitable centerfire rifle for hunting deer and elk then I would suggest you can't afford to be hunting at all.

$$$ has nothing to do with it....the number of rifles I own is a 3 digit number...as is the number of acres I own.

I choose the one that will do the job...

 

[H&Hhunter]

So you are telling me that you are willing to always wait for a perfect broad side shot. That you will always limit your range to 100 yards or less. That you will always have a perfect rest. Or you won't shoot?

Sounds like you must hunt under some pretty nice conditions. It doesn't always work that way for me.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I don't need a rest to hit where I'm aiming at 100 yards, nor do I need broadside shots...you are assuming I use cheap bullets...I don't.

Barnes TSX bullets will give enough penetration from any usable angle..and enough accuracy to ensure neck shots if thats all that is available.

As I said before...I don't get any pleasure from hunting deer at long range....there is no sport in it...not for me.

To put it simply...If I have a 270 (or anything similar) any deer that shows himself within 400 yards is table meat...give me my target rifles (a 308 and a 300 win mag)...and any deer that shows himself within 1000 yards is table meat. Sure...I'm human...and sometimes miss...the last time was 9 years ago.

Thats all I have to say about it...if you can't understand that some people enjoy a getting close (bowhunters for example) then I'm not going to waste time arguing about it. That is TRUE hunting...have you ever had a doe step over your legs and never know you were in the world...or a nice buck, but not a shooter, come in and bed down within 10 yards of you.

You should try it sometime.

 

[Art Eatman]

Well, I bonked a fox on his nose with the toe of my boot. Does that count? And I hit a nice, fat little buck in the rump with a pebble from about ten feet. Is that okay?

Anyhow, the .223 is a neat cartridge for varmints. My Rugilator 77 Mk II does bad things to prairie dogs out to around 300 yards or so. It would reach farther, I imagine, but it hasn't been necessary.

IMO, folks worry too much. Go to pickin' fly poop outta pepper...

Anybody gonna watch the F1 race in the morning?



Art

 

[X-Rap]

I think this 22 CF big game topic should be right up there with Mall Ninjas and donut eating Cops. Maybe there needs to be a specific name for these woodland big game Ninjas who risk all and hunt the worlds largest mammals with the smallest of calibers.
Who dares next to go to the .204 or have the right bullets not yet been made?

 

[R.W.Dale]

In wonder how many of ya'll realize just how many advances have gone into .224 diameter bullets in the past 10 yrs. 55grn sp's are LIGHT bullets nowdays, Hell I can shoot 90grn bullets from my .223

The kind of damage and penetration a 62grn Barns TSX will do makes a 170grn SP 30-30 wound look as though the hunter was using a .177 pellet gun. With PROPER bullet selection a .223 can be used anywhere you would use a 30-30

FYI, This is the 21'st century for those of you stuck in the 19th

So you are telling me that you are willing to always wait for a perfect broad side shot.

So you're saying you shoot something larger so you can get by with more of a gutshot

I guess for those of us disciplined enough to not gutshoot game this is a non issue

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Finally...somebody who has actually done their homework. And the 62 grain Barnes TSX is the bullet I use in my 223 (an AR 15)...I would have told them that it will penetrate about 3/4 of the length of a deer (bones and all)...but they are too closed minded to listen.

EDIT: I got a lil carried away...edited for clarity

 

[MCgunner]

So what? There are still a BUNCH of better calibers for the chore and a rifle in those calibers costs no more. Why go with the pop gun when you can have, say, a .308? I've never owned a .22 centerfire, have no real use for one since we don't have prairie dogs or woodchucks and I don't actively hunt coyotes. And, I mean, I've killed coyote while deer hunting with both .257 Roberts and .308 Winchester. They did the job pretty danged good. You might think the .223 is the best elk and deer and hog rifle ever built, I don't know why, and I really don't care. Suit yourself, but I'll use a decent caliber for that chore since there is no end to the choices out there from .243 Winchester to .338 Win Mag and more. The only REAL reason I can see someone being nuts over using the .223 on big game is the AR15 fanatics. In that case, I say, get an AR10. Barnes makes EVEN BETTER bullets in .308 diameter for big game.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Here is a pic of a Barnes 62 grain TSX...after being fired into a solid chunk of slate rock at 2,900 fps (chrono'd)...for those of you who don't know...slate rock isn't solid granite...its more like hard packed dried clay...think brick hardness...this bullet penetrated 12 inches. The only weight it lost was the petals were torn off...that don't happen in game animals.

 

[X-Rap]

Thats a facinating picture but that bullet still weighs less than half to a third of a good 7mm or .30 cal after recovery from an elk so I don't really get your point.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Elk was the original topic...but it sorta got switched to deer.

And the point is ...they will penetrate.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Barnes makes EVEN BETTER bullets in .308 diameter for big game.

Yep..they sure do.

I'm not trying to convince anybody to use a 223 for deer or hogs...but don't be led astray by people who have no experience on the matter telling you that the 223 is suited only to varmints...those days are gone. For deer and hogs it works like a charm...with good bullets.

How about this...lots of people use a 243 for black bear...at least here they do...would you take that 243 bear hunting loaded with 85 grain Ballistic Tips??? Hell no...you would have 100 grain bullets in it (Hornady Interlock, Speer Grand Slam, Nosler Partition and the like)...its the same principle.

Anybody who would use a 223 for elk needs their head examined and their nuts removed.

 

[X-Rap]

I guess here is my point, I used to have a truck with a good 300 straight 6 ford motor and it would pull a stock trailer over the mountains but it was hard work. I then got a truck with a 460 FI motor and it pulled much better but it wasn't till I got the turbo diesel that I really realized I needed a bigger trailer. I think that this is a fair analogy to the caliber argument even to the point that when you feel you have reached the pinicle of caliber choice you can find bigger game. Just a matter of the best tool for the job.