Elk hunting with a 223

[MCgunner]

X-Rap...I'm glad I don't have to pay your fuel bills......

 

[X-Rap]

Fuel or powder I use the trucks just like the guns, the diesel stays parked except for the heavy stuff I got a little one for the runnin around.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Well, I bonked a fox on his nose with the toe of my boot. Does that count? And I hit a nice, fat little buck in the rump with a pebble from about ten feet. Is that okay?

Yes Art, if you were being serious, that qualifies...let me guess, you were using fox pee for cover scent....I quit using fox pee myself after having one decide to mark me as it passed by.

The young bucks are easy to fool.

 

[eliphalet]

Your saying a Barnes 223 game bullet will penetrate 12 inches into common brick?
Excuse me if I find that a bit of a overstatement. Sorry but I would need to witness that in person.

I thought this was about proper bullets/calibers for elk of which nothing made in 223 is.

Threads like this irk me cause me to wonder how many elk these hunters have shot with the Almighty 223.
I own a 223 and have shot several elk but you can durn sure bet not with any 22 caliber and except on a forum have I ever heard of any one that did hunt elk even suggest using any 22 caliber on one.

I think what we have here is a lot of hot wind with not much to back it up but more hot wind.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Bricks are about 40 cents each, the bullets are about 76 cents each + brass, powder and primer, for about $6 you can try it for yourself.

But you're right about the 223 and elk...not a good combo.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

It appears that you have not read the thread.223 for deer...OK with good bullets and shot placement

223 for elk...NO

 

[eliphalet]

I could do better I have some AP 30-06 and have access to bricks free. Past experiments tell me there is no need to try. Common or even AP is not going to penetrate a foot of solid masonry. Now if I wanted to lay 12" of loose brick and shoot it, I would imagine it could/would break a foot of em but never penetrate 12" of solid material.

Mute point, I concede, we must each believe what we believe. I am gonna leave it at that.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Are ya scared to try? With the Barnes bullet.

Heres you some food for thought...Penetration tests of various 223 rounds...they were fired through a steel plate into the gel... the Barnes bullet will penetrate tissue better than any bullet on this chart.

 

[H&Hhunter]

Thats all I have to say about it...if you can't understand that some people enjoy a getting close (bowhunters for example) then I'm not going to waste time arguing about it. That is TRUE hunting...

Thanks Ridgerunner.

I think I've got it now. Does any of this qualify

18 yards


32 yards


21 yards


About 15 feet when it all ended


About 10 yards


Under 45 yards


I could go on but the point is I am NOT a long range hunter. I kill most of my stuff under 100 yards. But on occasion I have the need to reach out and touch something. That is where a sensible caliber comes in handy. Or when the shot presentation isn't just right.

No matter which way you cut it. You are taking a risk of hunting with a .22 CF. A Barnes is a good round but it's still .223 in diameter and it still isn't going to give optimal penetration or energy under any circumstances.

But nobody here is telling you not to hunt with it. Only that many of us choose not to for obvious reasons.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

There is nothing in those pics that I would use a 223 on...I'm going to get me a Cape Buffalo one day...I have a 458 Win Mag that I bought just for the occasion.

Only that many of us choose not to

I understand that completely...

A Barnes is a good round but it's still .223 in diameter and it still isn't going to give optimal penetration or energy under any circumstances.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that...I have seen several instances of complete penetration with 62 grain TSX's on deer...and from different shot angles.


Some nice trophies you have there BTW...

 

[H&Hhunter]

Ridge,

I agree if you are going to use a .223 on deer that the TSX is THE best hunting bullet available.

 

[Harley Quinn]

H&H,
Nice pictures, thanks for sharing, you are certainly a man of your word.
Nice to see and know, that what you say is what you are.

"Bravery lives in the heart of kind men."

Regards,
Gary

 

[MCgunner]

Well, if you can afford to hunt elephant in Africa, you can afford a rifle for every occasion. However, my rifle collection consists of 3 primary hunting rifles and they must do all types of hunting I might get into, from cross canyon shots on mule deer to 40 yard shots under the feeder. My contention is, the .223 will work on that 40 yard shot under the feeder, but why hamstring yourself with feeder hunting? If you hunt varying terrain, you want your rifle to be more versatile, and a .308 can nail that deer under the feeder AND that 300 lb mulie across that canyon equally well.

Now, if and when I get to go elk hunting, I'll be in a quandary over whether to use my light, handy little .308 or my heavier, but more powerful 7mm Rem Mag. In either case, I'll be using controlled expansion bullets and they WON'T be .223" in diameter struggling to make 1200 ft lbs at the muzzle. I don't even consider my .257 Roberts enough for Wapiti. I'm sure I could load it with a 117 Hornady Interlock and kill one, but overkill is not shameful IMHO. I'm not sure the 7 is really overkill, though. Them's some HUGE animals.

 

[grimjaw]

I'm not a bad shot, although I haven't had the opportunity to hunt under adverse conditions as often as most people who hunt regularly. Even if I had that practice, I'd want something that would produce a humane kill with a less than ideal shot. Plus, I'm getting older and my joints creak loud enough to scare critters while trying to sneak up on them closer than 50 yards.

jm

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I don't hunt feeders...there is no sport in that either.

Thats like animal assassination...set them up and kill them...thats not hunting.

 

[MCgunner]

I don't hunt feeders...there is no sport in that either.

Thats like animal assassination...set them up and kill them...thats not hunting.

Yes, I've heard that a lot on this board, to which I say, you ain't invited anyway, so get over it. Feeders are a lifestyle in Texas, especially the eastern half. I've got a LOT of deer and, hey, I didn't take a deer last year. If there ain't no sport in it, I'd shoot my five limit every year, perhaps on opening morning, you'd think.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

you ain't invited anyway

Don't take it out on me...its not my fault you'd starve if you had to hunt "fair chase".

Feeders are illegal here.

 

[alsaqr]

Only three OK counties have elk. Most elk in OK are killed in the Wichita Mountain Wildlife Refuge and on Ft. Sill.

Know a lot of folks who elk hunt in OK. None of the rifle hunters I know use anything smaller than a .270 Winchester. Much of Ft. Sill is restricted to muzzleloaders and shotguns with slugs. Shotguns must be 12 gauge.

In the Wildlife Refuge and on Ft. Sill a hunter is restricted to five rounds of ammunition.

 

[MCgunner]

Don't take it out on me...its not my fault you'd starve if you had to hunt "fair chase".

Feeders are illegal here.

<sigh>I've done my share of spot and stalk and still hunting, too. Anyway, I have a hog trap. I'll never starve.

I've also been told no ethical hunter would use a stand. Takes all kinds, I guess. To some, it ain't huntin' unless you jump out of a tree with a knife in your teeth Rambo style. Whatever floats your boat. Personally, I think it could be construed by some as being quite unethical to use marginal calibers on game. But, whatever.....

 

[H&Hhunter]

On the internet ethics tend to be whatever supports our argument at the time. At least that is how it often seems.

There is nothing unethical about hunting deer from a stand in thick brush country. Just as there is nothing unethical about shooting deer with a .223 IF the guy behind the rifle is truly able to control himself and make those shots count.

I've been called unethical on this site for;

Hunting with hounds

Hunting elephant

Hunting with iron sights

Bow hunting

Rifle hunting

Using a scope

Hunting form a stand

Sport hunting

Muzzle loader hunting with an inline

Bow hunting with a compound bow

Wounding an animal

Having to shoot one more than once

Not having shot one enough times

ETC. ETC. ETC.

After a while I've come to figure out that the biggest proclaimers of true sportsmanship and absolute experts on anything tend to be the biggest B.S.ers with the least amount of field/hunting experience.

Because those guys who've been there and done it know that things rarely go by script and in the field stuff happens. Equipment fails, even the most experienced guys miss, animals get wounded occasionally, sometimes they are not recovered, so on and so forth. When A guy tells me he's never had one get away or that he's only ever made a one shot kill I know at that moment that I am talking to some one who either has not hunted much or they are full of scat.

Basically you simply can't take 90% of what you read on the net serious, there are simply to many mall ninjas, gunstore commandos and Bwanabes that post on the net.

Thats just my $.02

 

[TimboKhan]

H&H, excellent post.

 

[eliphalet]

Purty good 2 cents worth if you ask me. Lots of value there.

 

[alsaqr]

"After a while I've come to figure out that the biggest proclaimers of true sportsmanship and absolute experts on anything tend to be the biggest B.S.ers with the least amount of field/hunting experience."


You summed it up very well.

 

[MCgunner]

Bwanabes

I like that one. LOL Great post. Yeah, ethics can get to the point that HUNTING is unethical. It's getting there, trust me. Animal cruelty laws are beginning to reflect this. Getting to where you shoot a feral animal on your place, unless you have dead chickens for proof, you'd best shovel and shut up about it. It's only a small step from feral cats and dogs to game animals.

There was a push 20 years ago against bow hunting, PETA types claiming it was cruel. Don't know what ever happened to THAT one. They've been at the boat ramps opening of duck season before, too, protesting. You might think you're high all mighty ethical, just don't get too carried away with your self importance. Seems like everyone has a different slant on it. So long as you're not breaking game laws, I fail to see the lack of ethics in feeder hunting, personally. Maybe it's because I've actually DONE it and don't sit on some high horse somewhere in a state where it's not allowed, don't know. But, here, it's quite the norm and big companies like Remington Arms put their brands on feeders/timers, even bags of corn sold at outdoor stores. It's a big industry down here. If you outlawed feeders, you'd cost the economy millions and put thousands out of work. Price of corn might go down a bit, I guess, but then I wouldn't care about the price of corn anymore if I didn't need to buy it.

 

[berettashotgun]

Run,Forrest,run..........
Man this took off in a different direction
I guess I should explain; Most of my thoughts were on the fact the regulations don't provide mature guidance to the masses.
You can hunt elk with a 45 in OK.:banghead:
Think about that for a minute. Yeah - +P blah,blah,blah....
Now consider using a 40!. Geesh...
I personally would choose a 223 for Elk over a 40 pistol.
That said, a sabot 50cal muzzle loader (not necessarily black powder) will shoot clean through a deer at 125 yards with a 300gr Barnes AND drop the animal.
Getting a permit for Elk in OK is tuff...once in a lifetime for draw in hunts and good luck in getting a leased/owned population to hunt.
HAVE to make it count.
H&H - you look disoriented in that cape photo, two rounds? Up close? Is that a beretta double?