For those who dislike Nugent

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speaking for them.........
I have to ask,
Why???
This is from CNN today.

Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster
POSTED: 11:25 a.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
By Ted Nugent
Special to CNN

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Editor's note: Rock guitarist Ted Nugent has sold more than 30 million albums. He's also a gun rights activist and serves on the board of directors of the National Rifle Association. His program, "Ted Nugent Spirit of the Wild," can be seen on the Outdoor Channel.

Read an opposing take on gun control from journalist Tom Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms

WACO, Texas (CNN) -- Zero tolerance, huh? Gun-free zones, huh? Try this on for size: Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone.

Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

A few years back, an assistant principal at Pearl High School in Mississippi, which was a gun-free zone, retrieved his legally owned Colt .45 from his car and stopped a Columbine wannabe from continuing his massacre at another school after he had killed two and wounded more at Pearl.

At an eighth-grade school dance in Pennsylvania, a boy fatally shot a teacher and wounded two students before the owner of the dance hall brought the killing to a halt with his own gun.

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.

My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.

She has since led the charge for concealed weapon upgrade in Texas, where we can now stop evil. Yet, there are still the mindless puppets of the Brady Campaign and other anti-gun organizations insisting on continuing the gun-free zone insanity by which innocents are forced into unarmed helplessness. Shame on them. Shame on America. Shame on the anti-gunners all.

No one was foolish enough to debate Ryder truck regulations or ammonia nitrate restrictions or a "cult of agriculture fertilizer" following the unabashed evil of Timothy McVeigh's heinous crime against America on that fateful day in Oklahoma City. No one faulted kitchen utensils or other hardware of choice after Jeffrey Dahmer was caught drugging, mutilating, raping, murdering and cannibalizing his victims. Nobody wanted "steak knife control" as they autopsied the dead nurses in Chicago, Illinois, as Richard Speck went on trial for mass murder.

Evil is as evil does, and laws disarming guaranteed victims make evil people very, very happy. Shame on us.

Already spineless gun control advocates are squawking like chickens with their tiny-brained heads chopped off, making political hay over this most recent, devastating Virginia Tech massacre, when in fact it is their own forced gun-free zone policy that enabled the unchallenged methodical murder of 32 people.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law. Feel better yet? Didn't think so.

Who doesn't get this? Who has the audacity to demand unarmed helplessness? Who likes dead good guys?

I'll tell you who. People who tramp on the Second Amendment, that's who. People who refuse to accept the self-evident truth that free people have the God-given right to keep and bear arms, to defend themselves and their loved ones. People who are so desperate in their drive to control others, so mindless in their denial that they pretend access to gas causes arson, Ryder trucks and fertilizer cause terrorism, water causes drowning, forks and spoons cause obesity, dialing 911 will somehow save your life, and that their greedy clamoring to "feel good" is more important than admitting that armed citizens are much better equipped to stop evil than unarmed, helpless ones.

Pray for the families of victims everywhere, America. Study the methodology of evil. It has a profile, a system, a preferred environment where victims cannot fight back. Embrace the facts, demand upgrade and be certain that your children's school has a better plan than Virginia Tech or Columbine. Eliminate the insanity of gun-free zones, which will never, ever be gun-free zones. They will only be good guy gun-free zones, and that is a recipe for disaster written in blood on the altar of denial. I, for one, refuse to genuflect there.

What is your take on this commentary? E-mail us

The opinions expressed in this commentary are those of the writer. This is part of an occasional series of commentaries on CNN.com that offers a broad range of perspectives, thoughts and points of view.

Read an opposing point of view from journalist Tom Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms
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Anybody see what the evil Brady Campaign and other anti-gun cults have created? I personally have zero tolerance for evil and denial. And America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time, and I've about had enough of it.
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Yes. And it's about damn time more people did as well. :banghead:
 
Of course Nugent is the guy who said NRA members should only associate with NRA members or something like that and then claimed that our enemies were not those who are for gun control as they are a joke. He went on to say that...

"Our enemy is the gun owners that don't belong to the NRA."
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This is really interesting because those favoring gun control are many of the ones who have been partially or maybe completely responsible for gun-free zones...but they are a joke he claims.

I do like how he has massaged some of the data to fit the cause....

More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
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One of those "brave average, armed citizens" was a sheriffs deputy, so definitely NOT average. Apparently, brave people in general don't appear to be average at all.

This example doesn't even fit his claim...
Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.
Click to expand...

While it may have been a gun free zone, obviously an unarmed person was able to put an end to the event.

The Hupp example is always interesting...
My hero, Dr. Suzanne Gratia Hupp, was not allowed by Texas law to carry her handgun into Luby's Cafeteria that fateful day in 1991, when due to bureaucrat-forced unarmed helplessness she could do nothing to stop satanic George Hennard from killing 23 people and wounding more than 20 others before he shot himself. Hupp was unarmed for no other reason than denial-ridden "feel good" politics.
Click to expand...

She failed to carry a gun illegally on her person but reported that she had it in her glove compartment which mean that she drove around with it, illegally. Here, he calls her his hero, but according to the NRA speech he gave, she was his enemy at the time because she was not even an NRA member and testified as such...
http://www.robertkeeney.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry070330-171334

Hennard may have been a racist and misogynist, but I don't recall him being satanic or a satanist. Like Cho and Whitman, he did appear to have some significant mental issues.

Thirty-two people dead on a U.S. college campus pursuing their American Dream, mowed-down over an extended period of time by a lone, non-American gunman in illegal possession of a firearm on campus in defiance of a zero-tolerance gun law.
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This was also interesting. The zero-tolerance gun law to which he referred isn't that, but a decision left to that of the educational institution. So he has actually misrepresented the VT situation by claiming it was a law when it was not a law, although it was a gun-free zone as per policy.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/wb/xp-21770

It is great to fight the good fight, but there is plenty to fight for without massaging the information to look more extreme than it really is. The murders of dozens of folks is more than sufficient to make some mighty points about the shortcoming of gun control. However, most of these mistakes, strangely enough, tend to favor his arguments which leads me to wonder if they were really mistakes or not.
 
Did anybody read Tom Plates rebuttal????
I'm at a loss for words.
Well, not really, but I don't want to hurt anyones little feelings.
 
DNS - Nugent is incapable of presenting straight facts; it's his style and he's expected to do so. His flamboyant style is what gets him noticed and published. I'll live with a few of his misapplied adjectives and relatively minor "law and policy" switcheroos as long as his message gets out there.

No offense meant to you; just my opinion.

Kev
 
I my not agree with all of what Nugent says or does, but atleast we know he isn't lobbying to take away our 2nd Amendment.
 
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his flamboyant style is what gets him noticed and published.
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The let-God-kill-em-all, in-your-face preaching style is great for preaching to the choir and getting gun owners worked up. However he might come off as too strong a cup of coffee for more mild latte-minded people...those that are on the opposite side or fence-sitters.

Its a great read for us but his style is going to be less effective at converting others as it's too aggressive. Converting fence-sitters and communicating to anti-gun people requires much more tactful methods of finding common ground, empathizing, and working towards our goals from there. Otherwise, the full throttle stylings of Nugent will cause others to tune out.
 
I'd like to see what critics of Ted Nugent have done lately for the Second Amendment cause. Damn, give the guy some credit at least he's trying. If you guys think you have a better approach, step up to the plate! Someone has to counteract the antis BS, and Ted Nugent is doing a great job. In my opinion it's not about empathy, it's about kicking someone in the head and knocking some sense into them. Thank Ted for the first of many kicks.
 
DNS and Cesium,

geeze I hope you are as tough on the Brady Bunch as you are on Nugent. As mentioned Ted's style is to be in your face. Look at his Wild Outdoors show. He has vegetarians shooting skinning and eating game (like the heart, liver, etc.). He is a slap in the face of the liberal gun grabbers. That is a needed role in the battle.

To your specific gripes. The Springfield, OR incident does highlight the value of gun ownership. Only because that one hero kid was familiar with guns was he able to detect an opportunity when the killer stopped to reload. If guns were outlawed or highly restricted as in some states then the chance that any student nearby would know enough about guns to recognize the opportunity would be nil.

Our enemy is the non-NRA gun owners. At one level certainly this is not true, but in the sense that traitors to a cause generally receive harsher anger and treatment then it is true. He is emphasizing the point that if all gun owners, or at least a majority of them belonged to the NRA, or at least voted like they did, then we would have no gun control threats at all. Only because a large number of gun owners continue to vote for gun grabber politicians (either explicit or with a gun grabber party like the Democrats) are these laws and debates kept alive.

I can excuse non-gun owners as being ignorant, or at least consistent in their belief and practice. But gun owners who vote for gun grabber politicians and parties are hypocrites and traitors to liberty. They deserve all the scorn Ted Nugent can heap on their sorry a$$es.
 
Sometimes it takes "in your face" to get the message out. How many times can we present supportive statistics and case studies in our favor before we sound like the anti-gun drones we abhor? We're never going to convince dyed in the wool antis that we're correct; it's too much of a core value with them, as is the right to bear arms a core value with us.

Nuge is very effective in convincing fence sitters, with his hollywood flair and rock-n-roll ancestry. He doesn't mince words and he makes gun rights exciting.

I teach gun safety to kids a few times a month at the local range, and all of the kids admire the Nuge because of his mouth. It's not his theatrical rudeness that appeals to them, which is even apparent to the kids, but his messages regarding ethical hunting, safety and self-defense.

Frankly, I'm tired of the bed-wetters getting in the last word about gun control with their inane and disproven drivel. Next time they bash self defense and say you should call 911, remind them that calling 911 gets them a cop armed with a gun.

Kev
 
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Are we suddenly not allowed to disagree now without coming under fire? Gee, I better step back in line :rolleyes: Maybe I don't have enough essence of celebrity worship in my water. I wouldn't want to be accused of forming my own opinions now.

Being gung-ho and pointing out obvious stupidity and logical flaws is great. It rallies people already on your side, but it isn't going to make fence-sitters and anti's change their position. All it makes them want to do is discard any possibility for having a discussion and reinforce that gun owners are nuts. Do you think all those televangelists are converting Buddhists and Hindus by calling them heathens that will burn in hell for eternity?

No one ever converted an anti by throwing guns at them or turned someone into a hunter by throwing slabs of raw meat in their face unless they were already willing to entertain the idea.

Go invite an anti to go out shooting and you'll do more good than screaming at them about how stupid they are. I'd rather see someone like Wayne LaPierre handle gun debates (such as the UN gun debate) because he won't resort to sensationalism.

Anyhow there are various personality types as far as representatives for gun owners so there is a little something to represent everyone.
 
I think this might be the opposing view by Tom Plate. I skimmed the previous posts, hope is not a duplicate. I find this thinking, well, the word eludes me.

T J


Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms
POSTED: 11:25 a.m. EDT, April 20, 2007
By Tom Plate
Special to CNN
Adjust font size:
Editor's note: Tom Plate, former editor of the editorial pages of the Los Angeles Times, is a professor of communication and policy studies at UCLA. He is author of a new book, "Confessions of an American Media Man."

LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- Most days, it is not at all hard to feel proud to be an American. But on days such as this, it is very difficult.
The pain that the parents of the slain students feel hits deep into everyone's hearts. At the University of California, Los Angeles, students are talking about little else. It is not that they feel especially vulnerable because they are students at a major university, as is Virginia Tech, but because they are (to be blunt) citizens of High Noon America.
"High Noon" is a famous film. The 1952 Western told the story of a town marshal (played by the superstar actor Gary Cooper) who is forced to eliminate a gang of killers by himself. They are eventually gunned down.
The use of guns is often the American technique of choice for all kinds of conflict resolution. Our famous Constitution, about which many of us are generally so proud, enshrines -- along with the right to freedom of speech, press, religion and assembly -- the right to own guns. That's an apples and oranges list if there ever was one.
Not all of us are so proud and triumphant about the gun-guarantee clause. The right to free speech, press, religion and assembly and so on seem to be working well, but the gun part, not so much.
Let me explain. Some misguided people will focus on the fact that the 23-year-old student who killed his classmates and others at Virginia Tech was ethnically Korean. This is one of those observations that's 99.99 percent irrelevant. What are we to make of the fact that he is Korean? Ban Ki-moon is also Korean! Our brilliant new United Nations secretary general has not only never fired a gun, it looks like he may have just put together a peace formula for civil war-wracked Sudan -- a formula that escaped his predecessor.
So let's just disregard all the hoopla about the race of the student responsible for the slayings. These students were not killed by a Korean, they were killed by a 9 mm handgun and a .22-caliber handgun.
In the nineties, the Los Angeles Times courageously endorsed an all-but-complete ban on privately owned guns, in an effort to greatly reduce their availability. By the time the series of editorials had concluded, the newspaper had received more angry letters and fiery faxes from the well-armed U.S. gun lobby than on any other issue during my privileged six-year tenure as the newspaper's editorial page editor.
But the paper, by the way, also received more supportive letters than on any other issue about which it editorialized during that era. The common sense of ordinary citizens told them that whatever Americans were and are good for, carrying around guns like costume jewelry was not on our Mature List of Notable Cultural Accomplishments.
"Guns don't kill people," goes the gun lobby's absurd mantra. Far fewer guns in America would logically result in far fewer deaths from people pulling the trigger. The probability of the Virginia Tech gun massacre happening would have been greatly reduced if guns weren't so easily available to ordinary citizens.
Foreigners sometimes believe that celebrities in America are more often the targets of gun violence than the rest of us. Not true. Celebrity shootings just make better news stories, so perhaps they seem common. They're not. All of us are targets because with so many guns swishing around our culture, no one is immune -- not even us non-celebrities.
When the great pop composer and legendary member of the Beatles John Lennon was shot in 1980 in New York, many in the foreign press tabbed it a war on celebrities. Now, some in the media will declare a war on students or some-such. This is all misplaced. The correct target of our concern needs to be guns. America has more than it can possibly handle. How many can our society handle? My opinion is: as close to zero as possible.
Last month, I was robbed at 10 in the evening in the alley behind my home. As I was carrying groceries inside, a man with a gun approached me where my car was parked. The gun he carried featured one of those red-dot laser beams, which he pointed right at my head.
Because I'm anything but a James Bond type, I quickly complied with all of his requests. Perhaps because of my rapid response (it is called surrender), he chose not to shoot me; but he just as easily could have. What was to stop him?
This occurred in Beverly Hills, a low-crime area dotted with upscale boutiques, restaurants and businesses -- a city best known perhaps for its glamour and celebrity sightings.
Oh, and police tell me the armed robber definitely was not Korean. Not that I would have known one way or the other: Basically the only thing I saw or can remember was the gun, with the red dot, pointed right at my head.
A near-death experience does focus the mind. We need to get rid of our guns.
 
No one in this discussion has come under fire, at least not by me. I'm simply stating my opinion. You all certainly have a right to your own.

That being said, I will never soft sell gun rights again. If an anti won't listen to logic, then I'll tell them to go stand up against the wall with the rest of the victims. Ladies and gentlemen, it is time to take off the gloves and stand our ground. Not one more inch.

Kev
 
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The Message

The message is there. Ok The facts may be a little off. BUT The message is there. If you want to be hunted by madmen then go to gun free zones. One person could have stopped the senseless slaughter of those students. BUT NO we can't have that. The Police are there for apprehension they cannot be there for prevention. If you want to die without a chance of survival then gun free zones are the place to go. I for one refuse to die like cattle at slaughter. For those at VT who did what they could to block doors and keep this mad man at bay GOD BLESS YOU. For those who died without a chance to defend themselves GOD BLESS YOU. For the wounded who will suffer long after this is over GOD BLESS YOU . For all the families forever changed GOD BLESS YOU. And yes for the family of this sick young man GOD BLESS YOU.
For those who want to make us sheep for the slaughter BE DAMMED ..
 
Noban, no offense taken. Actually, none from anybody. I don't care what Nugent's style is. In your face is fine if you aren't fabricating crap to make your point better. I may be a bit old school, but if we are going to say it is OK for "the Nuge" to fabricate information to make his points, then we have to agree that it is OK for the anti-gun people to do the same thing and we all complain about anti-gun people not getting the facts straight, correct, or when they massage the information in manners to make their positions look stronger than they are.

We can't call foul on the antis for doing something one of our supposed NRA BoD representatives is also doing. Ted speaks for the NRA and the NRA represents its people and gun owners in general and misrepresenting the information it presents to make its point better...which is really stupid when there is already a VERY STRONG pro gun position available without fabrication and misrepresentation.

I distrust those that do this sort of thing. In my experience, such verbal slight of hand tactics are an attempt at "the words are quicker than the ear" where the person doing it has something to gain by doing this, often at my expense. What is the person trying to hide by doing this? Why the need to fabricate and misrepresent if the product is actually good?

Nugent's words are not the words of a straight shooter. What is wrong with honesty and accuracy? We are the good guys, right?
 
Anyone that has the influence to speak on our behalf is a plus, so what if he is not perfect. Last time I checked no one on this board has been on TV speaking of the rkba. Just my 2 cents.
 
I was also a little surprised by a couple of the local TV stations that ran parts of an interview with Suzanna Hupp (recently former TX Legislator that fought for Concealed Carry Laws) where she said basically gun free zones were a prime target for a mass killer to go unchallenged. She then related some of her story where at the time, she was prevented by law (and complied) from taking her handgun into the Luby's in Killeen that day that the killer struck. The Killer shot her father, her mother was holding him in her arms. They had just celebrated their 47th wedding anniversary, she was not going anywhere. Suzanna reached into her purse and said to herself I have him now, but the gun was not there, it was in the car. The killer put the gun to her Mother's head and killed her. She said she would rather be in Prision for a Felony (for having a gun in there with her) and still have her parents, than to have complied with the law as it was at the time and still have both of her parents . I have to admire her for making the best out of a bad situation for her personally to benifit the rest of us being able to legally have the ability to better protect ourselves in this state at least.
 
Last time I checked no one on this board has been on TV speaking of the rkba.
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I don't even understand the point of that statement other than to inflame people an cause the mods to come into this discussion. Does that mean those (read, most) people that don't have their own rock albums and TV shows are lesser than those that do?

If none of us lowly peasants gave a dime or hoot regarding gun rights other than high profile gun owners, we'd have NO firearms today.

People here stating anything remotely diffrerent aren't saying Ted Nugent is a liabliity and a goon. Everyone thusfar has agreed with his core message and that he is doing good. It's his method of delivery that rubs some people wrong.
 
But this:

Nearly a decade ago, a Springfield, Oregon, high schooler, a hunter familiar with firearms, was able to bring an unfolding rampage to an abrupt end when he identified a gunman attempting to reload his .22-caliber rifle, made the tactical decision to make a move and tackled the shooter.

While it may have been a gun free zone, obviously an unarmed person was able to put an end to the event.
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is disingenuous at best.

I read that it was a hunter familiar with firearms. Most unarmed sheeple are not going to be able to tell or even think that they have so many seconds to tackle the shooter. So while he was unarmed, he was "armed" with firearm knowledge.
 
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