TonyStarks
Member
sorry about the duplicate post...Derek. Didn't see it after i posted....maybe i should have scrolled up...hmm
Can we start comparing our SAT percentiles next?Since I was honors in college and law school,
Well one fundamental difference is that the Clinton Administration was able to finally get NATO troop support so that the "mission" was not entirely a unilateral effort by the US. Then too, there was a bevy of international monetary support from around the world for reconstruction in the Balkans after the invasion, and lastly, think what you might of the UN, they provided Peace Keeping efforts after the military conflict so US troops were not solely relegated to a police effort in the aftermath.
(Turkey will never allow this, as their Kurd residents will likely revolt to try and have the land they live on annexed)
Actually, I believe cutting Iraq up into smaller regions that make sense and would want to self-govern effectively would work. I just don't think the political will to do it exists in this country.
Can we start comparing our SAT percentiles next?
Or perhaps the length of our... AR-15s?
To those that want to stay and fight it out in Iraq I say...ok, but no "half-assed" measures any longer. If it is that important that we succeed there then we re-institute the draft, send ALL of our sons and daughters off to win this conflict, and on the home front we all pay an additional fixed war tax to fund the effort. The one lesson I have learned from Vietnam is that we commit to total vitcory....or we commit to nothing. The "in between" is failing like it did in SE Asian in the 1970's. It's all or nothing now. Let the American citizenry decide if they they willing to make the sacrifice necessary to make a 25 year commitment to a plan that will put a permanent end to the sectarian conflict in Iraq. If the decisions yes, then lets get to work expanding our military, VA facilities....and our cemeteries.
Since oil is the at the root of problem.....personal vehicles that are not fuel efficient and the gasoline that powers them should be taxed heavily !
To those that want to stay and fight it out in Iraq I say...ok, but no "half-assed" measures any longer. If it is that important that we succeed there then we re-institute the draft, send ALL of our sons and daughters off to win this conflict, and on the home front we all pay an additional fixed war tax to fund the effort.
Since oil is the at the root of problem.....personal vehicles that are not fuel efficient and the gasoline that powers them should be taxed heavily !
You're seeing a conflict between two statements where there isn't one.So which is it?
I'd rather not have them associated at all. Why not make Iraq 3 separate nations, rather that trying to form a coalition of states?Personally I believe a weak central government is needed with stronger state governments. Much like what we had 222 years ago.
No, actually I don't believe they'll "get" democratic ideas. Though education is a big part of that. Past experience trying to get a Palestinian through a government class in college -- bright girl (superb head for math, taught herself English by typing correspondence for US types after the first Iraq war) who simply couldn't get it. She understood dictators, and monarchies. The rest was mush. And I wouldn't doubt she'd easily be in the top tenth percentile on IQ. But she had no foundation to use to build on -- "government" as it exists in the middle east seems to be some yahoo or another telling you how it's going to be. Might be a king, or a tribal head, or a dictator, or an Imam, but it's some person who says how things are.But if as you say the people are too "uneducated" to govern themselves this will not work.
Then if we are to continue in Iraq without a universal draft we are relegated to practice of voluntary paid troops and "hired mercenaries".I am opposed to indentured servitude to the state.
You're seeing a conflict between two statements where there isn't one.
We could simply say "Kurdistan exists," and while we'd potentially lose an ally over it I think it's the best long-term solution.
I'd rather not have them associated at all. Why not make Iraq 3 separate nations, rather that trying to form a coalition of states?
Trying to explain democracy in general, and republicanism as a derivative, throwing in 2 houses, an executive, an independent judicial branch, and all the rest just didn't work. Hundreds of hours of honest effort later, she never got it.
Then if we are to continue in Iraq without a universal draft we are relegated to practice of voluntary paid troops and "hired mercenaries".
The Romans decided to go this route; as the Huns incessantly pushed the Germanic tribes eastward, invading the outlying Roman provinces, their citizens were incapable of sacrificing to protect the frontiers. The mounting debt necessary to pacify the barbarians became so overwhelming that eventually the crown precipitously slipped from the last Caesar's head in 476; the Empire crumbled.
...yes, my analogy was cavalier at best; but there are some legitimate parallels as to which you allude.Yes, yes the Empire of America. I admit I am not crazy about the high number of foreign mercenaries in Iraq but they do solve problems. But you are forgetting lots and lots of other things such as there are no Germanic tribes moving to seize the Gold in Ft. Knox. And the lack of Emperor, slaves, lead pots, rise of a new religion, geography, political system, and just about everything else.
The supporters of this war are out of rational reasons for our involvement there.
Derek and wooderson, you both make claims about there being no civil war in Iraq before we invaded and I must concede.
Originally posted by nemoaz:
If Derek is right and it's 600,000 to 2,000, we're still doing real well. And you guys will have to mourn the additional thousands of terrorist to die in the next few years. I'm feeling for you. I really am.
So are we going after the terrorists in Saudi Arabia our ally? I do believe that the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi Arabian and not Iraqi. What about Pakistan? I believe that they have large refugee camps where Al Quaeda members are hiding? What about Al Quaeda groups in the South Pacific?Orignally posted by nemoaz:
The terrorists aren't all dead yet. That's the only reason that matters.
The terrorists aren't all dead yet. That's the only reason that matters.