From the JBTs to you..

[Powderman]

I have never seen anything that said that some of the kids in Columbine were killed by friendly fire. It is my understanding that the shooting had stopped before the police entered the building.

FedDC:

Perhaps there were improvised IED's placed all around. I don't know.

I do know this--that there are some times when you have to consciously make a decision to do something that flies in the face of reason.

I'm not a cowboy--heavens, no! I tend to be overcritical sometimes, and spend too much time evaluating my options.

But if a person swears an oath to protect and serve and puts on the uniform, there WILL come a time when you have to do something that flies in the face of reason.

I don't know of ANY Department that forbids entry into a structure under exigent circumstances. For instance, take a DV call.

The normal procedure for one ofc. cars is to get there, WAIT FOR BACKUP, and then approach the residence. Stop and listen for a minute, then make contact.

However, if you are waiting for backup and you hear something which would lead you to believe that someone is getting hurt RIGHT NOW, you get your rump out of that nice soft Crown Vic in a hurry. You GET YOUR HIND END IN THERE, and do what's necessary.

At Columbine, like I said before, I can't and won't second guess the officers. However, this would have been my course of action.

At the report of shots fired, and kids down:

1. DON'T cruise up to the front door. Find another entrance.

2. Notify Dispatch of your arrival.

3. Deploy your long gun. In this case, the AR15 truly finds its niche.

4. Say a quick prayer, swallow the shakes, and get into that school using whatever means necessary. Keep in contact with Dispatch, and once inside, MOVE. Quick peeks in the classrooms. Try to find out from Dispatch where the shooters are--and get there!

5. Hopefully, you can find the shooters quickly. You're not a soldier on combat ops, so you challenge them; give them a chance to lay down their arms. If they choose poorly, do what needs to be done.

Bottom line--when people are hurt and dying, the officer is sworn to find out why--and do something about it, RIGHT NOW. And the reason isn't the pay, or the prestige, or the perks.

The reason is because you have stood and swore an oath before God to protect others--even at the cost of your safety, your health or your life.

I'm sorry--perhaps I will get into trouble one day for believing this as strongly as I do. But, I have two children; grown now, and out on their own. I remember, though, when they went through school. And, I know that if I heard what I would feel if they were at a school where a shooting had occurred.

Perhaps I am a bit old fashioned, but the parents on the board will probably agree with me:

Procedure don't mean squat when kids are being hurt.

 

[sendec]

You're honked off cause someone referred to you as a "sheep?'' Let's try a little experiment shall we, Lets see how many hits we get when we search for the term "sheeple".

51 pages

1263 hits

Now I am not literate enough to search within these results, and I don't care enough to learn, but is there any chance that YOUR name would show up in any of these threads?

The idea of someone here whining about being called a sheep is hilarious. Don't dish it out...... High Road indeed.

 

[Cosmoline]

Sheeple are those who buy into the bravo sierra about "sheep" "wolves" and "sheep dogs." The term makes fun of the fact that they view themselves as livestock to be protected by the all-powerful state and its "sheep dogs."

I have nothing against LEO's, but the notion that they form some sort of thin blue line protecting us from anarchy, esp. up here in the wild north, is absurd. They'd be the first to tell you they are far too few in number to even hope to act as "sheep dogs" to protect us. And only a very ill-informed person would classify the average Alaskan as a mewing wool-bearing, harmless farm animal.

 

[sendec]

Bull

Name calling is name calling.

You would'nt be one of the guys who gets all cranked up about that other great epithet, would you? "Civilian"?

 

[KMKeller]

I predict this thread will be closing soon...

 

[Cosmoline]

Not sure why this became personal. I was discussing the author of the piece at issue, not you individually. I don't often use the word "sheeple" and I certainly never called you a "sheeple." If I use it, it's in the context of what Ted Kennedy plans on doing to the sheeple. Not because I think we're sheep, but because HE thinks we are. The author of this piece and the antis think alike. They organize Americans into classes and say certain classes can have firearms while others must be disarmed for their own good. I disagree with that whole line of thinking.

I prefer to be called what I am--a citizen. There are no classes, distinctions or orders within that rank. The notion that we are a nation divided into wolves, sheep and sheep dogs is abhorent to me. As is the notion that we are a nation divided into "warrior" and "civilian" classes. IMHO it's this sort of thinking that leads people to call law enforcement officers "troops" and consider them an arm of the military. They are not. They are merely citizens with a particular job. It doesn't make them into a new species!

Thus my differences of opinion with the author of the quoted piece. Are you defending his position?

 

[Delmar]

Wow-the last time I saw people this cranked up is when I asked my wife if she had put on a few pounds!

The author of the article puts life in very simplistic terms-too simple IMO. There is a lot more to life than sheep, sheepdogs and wolves. Sometimes, they all can be the same person-just depends on the circumstances.

Its my belief that it is good to have LEO's, but within that belief, there are going to be good and bad ones-just like doctors, preachers or most any profession you can name. Having said all that, I rely on the person I see in the mirror every morning first and foremost for my protection.

Nothing at all against LEO's-have some who are friends and they are competent individuals. If a situation arises and there happens to be LEO's available, I'll gladly retreat and let them do what they are trained in. Besides, the most powerful weapon they have is a Motorola! The most I can do is shoot to slide lock.

We expect our LEO's to be perfect, but I suspect there are those who take a bad rap for a mistake, and get lumped in with the few who are truly evil.

 

[SkunkApe]

This thread is very reassuring. I am reminded, despite occasional differences of opinion, that High Road people are mostly my kind of people.

"Sheep" my rear end.

 

[sendec]

Whatever....

If you are comfortable with the hypocrisy, hey, carry on.

Any shred of credibility is swirling down the bowl when you complain about being labeled when you belong to a group like this where "sheeple, blissninnie, soccer mom and JBT" are tossed about with reckless abandon and curdling disdain. You never called me a sheeple. But, if by your own admission you are willing to label people, at least dont get all blubbery and put-uponwhen they do the same thing to you.

I am not defending his position - I am attacking yours. You can dish it out but you cannot take it. But I am sure you have these poor misguided sheeples' best interests at heart, you know, "it's for the sheeple."


Incidently, while i am not defending Grossman's position, let's see your vitae. We know his qualifications, what are yours? You have'nt even indicated that you read his book. Where is the research you have done to rebut him? Maybe he is wrong and you are right, now prove it. Dazzle us with your expertise. I should value your opinion exactly why? Because you say so?

Whatever squared.....

 

[Don Gwinn]

And with that, I have Had Enough.

From the title to the last post, nothing but Us vs. Them.

How very disappointing.