From the People Who Brought You Volkswagon

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mec

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The Full-Sized Walter Police Pistol 7.65 Browning introduced in 1929. The Short Variation is well known as is the PPKS response to GCA 68 and the various calibers and configurations made in Germany, France and Georgia (!) USA.
ppwalther.jpg
The intricate and excellent design rocked along unblemished until a decade or so ago when Walther and Smith and Wesson entered into an unholy union that had SW manufacturing the pistols n .380 acp. A beaver tail was added to reduce the pain and, unlike the S&W pistol itself it actually Did accomplish that goal.The pistols however, showed tendency toward Surprize Discharges! and had to be recalled.
For the last several years Walther USA ads flitted around like a moth near a flame in regard to re-introducing the whole line of PPs PPKs PPKSes in blue and stainless and all is Happiness! until your try to buy one. For a while here were rumors that there was a warehouse full of them at Walther USA in Ft Smith Arkansas that the European Walther Firm would not let them sell. Walther lists them as current production and there are a few positive reviews on the Gallery of Guns site which suggest that a few have entered the marketplace but.they are labeled " Out of Stock." there and elsewhere. You can't get them and this has been the situation since they claimed reintroduction about a decade ago.

The Take Away Forget Walther USA Forget Newly Manufactured PP series pistols.

The one in the picture is dated '68 next to a proof mark on the exposed chamber it is further marked on the left side of the slide
Carl Walther Waffenfabrick Ulm Do
Model PP 7,65 `mm


It was,of course, the standard German Police Handgun from inception until superseded after WWII.
The PP established the "Standard" Double Action= wherein the first shot can be fired Double action with the happer remaining cocked for subsequent single action shots. Thee is a hammer =drop lever on the left side of the slide which also serves as a safety that blocks the firing pin and blocks the hammer-trigger movement. The magazine release is a frame-mounted button and, while there is no manual slide lock- the slide does stay open after the last shot. It relatively easy to seamlessly transition from the relatively heavy DA pull to SA and keep doubles closely spaced out to 25 yards. The fixed barrel affords precise bench rest accuracy at that range and reliability is excellent with standard length ball cartridge. It is Far Less reliable with the current crop of jhp loads with 60 grain bullets or the lead 100 grain Flat Point loaded to moderately high velocity by a Beautique Ammo company..
\

32oads.jpg
PPU 71 grain ball 898 fps
Remington 73 grain Ball 940]
Yugoslav 73 graub ball 1124
Buffalo Bore Lead Free jHP 1123 fps
Buffalo Bore 75 grain lead flat point 1040
S&B 73 grain ball 1061

The old .32 PP is a desirable and useful item if you have one or pick one up at a gunshow. The workmanship puts the current MIM + Plastic wonders to shame and may make up for the old Walther PP being as big as a lot of current EDC 9mms .
 
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I used to have the French made PP in .32; great gun but finding the brass in the grass was damn near impossible. Had it been an older one in .380, I'd probably still have it. great ergonomics, natural pointer, loved the decocker safety and the manner of takedown. Well made
 
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I have a PPK in 380 ACP and a PP and PPK/s in 32 ACP. I much prefer shooting the 32 ACP models.

They all scatter cases to the four winds but my current shooting set up has some benefits. I shoot parallel to my shop building where a hangar sized door is located. The door acts as a brass catcher with a concrete apron for the cases to land on.

I'd like to find a PPK in 32 ACP but will admit I have not been looking very hard. I'm sure they are relatively rare compared to the larger frame models due to the GCA '68 and that 32 ACP is not a popular cartridge these days.
 
Your "Volkspistole" has always been very appealing. By pure random chance a guy offered his Sauer 38H (.32 auto) for $200 about seven years ago; my First Handgun-still have it.

For what it's worth, a fair bit of .32 Auto ammo was available yesterday at the nearby Academy Sports.
At 1:30 pm--"Late in the day" to find popular ammo there--plus the fact that Academy doesn't charge current market prices, pretty unusual.

The fact that the Hungarians, Polish (Italians?) and others produced similar guns might be quite a testament to the Walther PP/PPK's advantages.
 
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I have the Hungarian 32acp PP "clone", made by FEG. It's my second one. My FiL got the first one away from me. They have aluminum frames and balance well.

My steel FEG PPK "clone" in 380acp is not necessarily pleasant to fire, but it functions well.

If you want a PP or PPK and don't want to pay much, I paid $200-$250 apiece for my FEG's, and they all function just fine (as does my FEG Hi-Power clone that I've had since 1988 or so).


 
I have an S&W PPK in .32, it’s nice to shoot, but a bit “peppy.” I can only imagine that .380 would verge on “unpleasant.”

Mine is reasonably reliable but has some light DA strikes once in awhile. I keep meaning to replace every spring in the gun and see if that cures things, but that’s just a tad more work than I seem to have time for. Unfortunately the first owner sent it in to S&W for their infamous recall and let them dremel out the feed ramp for the dubious advantage of hollow point ammunition reliability. Philistines. But then again, it also has the ugly beavertail on it, so I can’t complain much. I’ve been toying with the idea of picking up a PP in .32 for several years.
 
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So did I get a good deal on a NIB PPK (380), mfg in1968, with all papers for 850 OTD? It is a safe queen still unfired. I believe the older PPs and PPKs are still the finest double action pistols made. I have a S&W PPK that I have had no problems with. It is the laser engraved model and does not fall in the SN recall range. I remember when I was in Germany in 1966, many helicopter pilots on orders were buying PPKs in 380.
 
I have the Hungarian 32acp PP "clone", made by FEG. It's my second one. My FiL got the first one away from me. They have aluminum frames and balance well.

My steel FEG PPK "clone" in 380acp is not necessarily pleasant to fire, but it functions well.

If you want a PP or PPK and don't want to pay much, I paid $200-$250 apiece for my FEG's, and they all function just fine (as does my FEG Hi-Power clone that I've had since 1988 or so).



Does the AP9 have the same dimensions as the PA-63?
I always thought the FEG designs were cool and the pistols a bargain...but one day I finally got to hold a 63 and found it just didnt fit my hand like my Polish P83 or Makarov. The Polish one really takes the cake for ergonomics, for me anyway. I've heard the P83 is much closer to the PP- line than the other combloc pistols, internally anyway, but I'm not sure about that. It sure is accurate for having such a tiny front sight, I can tell you. It was the P83 that sold me on keeping 9x18 around, not the Makarov. It's the only pistol I have that I can draw in heartbeat and shoot from the hip and hit a pie-plate at 20ft rather consistently. That says alot in a sudden defense scenario.

Here's a PA63 for comparison to the AP9. Kind of hard to tell from random internet photos without some kind of background prop, like a dollar bill maybe...
20190106_163631.jpg
 
I bought a S&W not long after they made their first appearance, and mine has shot well, been ultra reliable, very accurate, and well made. I have have had a range from minor fixes to full blown junk from some well established manufacturers, and have a rate of about 40% of firearms I have owned new having something wrong with them. That PPK is one of the very few firearms I have put a decent number of rounds through without any malfunctions. About 15 years in, I did try to adjust the sight, and it broke, a common problem, but their customer service offered to fix it, and pay for shipping, something no other maker has offered so far. I have also owned a FEG RPK, and PA-63, which have been very well made, and reliable. FWIW, my S/W PPK feeds hollowpoint fine, my standard load being Montana gold 95gr hollowpoint, Xtreme 100 grain flat nose, loaded to around 880 FPS. It has never had feed malfunction.
 
for those saying an FEG is a good alternative, I agree FEG makes great clones, but if you plan to shoot it much, realize FEG does not import parts anymore, and the common places to get them don't usually have any. Walther parts will not necessarily fit. My APK broke an extractor, and sent the spring and pawls down range. It took two years to find an extractor, and I had to make the pawls from drill rod. If you don't plan to shoot it much, they are reliable, and accurate, and extremely well made (PA-63's did not prioritize finish, so don't judge it by that).
Non military models are known to be well finished, and the civilian model APK I bought for under $200 looks like a black tinted mirror. The aluminum frame matches the bluing, which is something I very rarely see.
I do believe my failed extractor was a random problem with the original forging that the manufacturer had no control over, but it does make me familiar with parts difficulty.
 
The PP was pretty much the standard West German Police pistol and in .32 ACP (7.65 Browning) until about 1982 when the P5, P6, & P7 9x19mm phased them out.

Never understood why the states that went P5 did so. The P6 was the single stack Sig that was all over the place five years back as surplus, and the P7 was flat small HK goodness. The P5 was a short barrel Walther P38 shorty do over.

I will say that certainly as late as January 1976 the French Police in Paris were carrying PP or PPk in .32ACP.

In 1982 you could buy a PPk .32 ACP in the American Rod & Gun for $169 US...but could not bring it home. They were even cheaper in 1973 and of course not importable then either (GCA '68). There was one in my platoon that had been bought by an NCO and pocket carried in 71-73, then sold to another NCO that pocket carried 73-74 and then sold to another NCO that was carrying in an inside the waist band holster when I let in 76. He had another buyer lined up as he was a Short timer when I left. I do wonder how many years that thing passed from NCO to NCO.

One of the Police I worked with a bit in Ulm am Donau (yep where Walther is) claimed he still carried the same PP he was issued as a policeman in 1938 in 1975. I was actually stationed across the River in Neu Ulm, but we called both communities on either side of the river "home". We trained multiple times at Rommel Kasserne ( on the Ulm City bus routes) and did most of our shooting there (besides our own, we shot G3, Uzi, MG 1 through 3, and the P1 version of the P38 pistol.)

Being young ,a moron, and shy despite belonging to the local german gun club and shooting with employees of Walther, Anshutz, and Kreifoff and getting invites I never visited any of the factories. An HK rep invited me to Oberndorf and I passed on that and I was walking in Dachau and strolled past Erma with out stepping in. Thankfully we are all only 19-22 once.

Anshutz's current president shot in our club and Walther loaned us guns and bought some ammunition. I did not appreciate how lucky I was at the time.

-kBob
 
"Does the AP9 have the same dimensions as the PA-63?"

Sorry, but I have no clue. I've never seen nor handled a PA63.

I probably wouldn't recommend a FEG for SD, since parts may be unobtainable, but if you really wanted to own a PP, PPK, or Hi-Power without spending much money, their "clones" were generally considered to be well-made and good shooters. If you got one that hadn't been shot a lot, it would likely (IMHO) take decades of occasional range trips for anything to go wrong with it.

I bought this FEG Hi-Power clone used in 1988, and it still functions perfectly. The sights and trigger are not that great, but the only time it ever malfunctioned was when I fed it a $5.00 box of Chinese 9mm ammo. (Sorry for the thread drift.)

View media item 1476
 
For those of you who haven't read it, this book is an EXCELLENT READ...all 66 pages of it. I got it on Amazon a few years ago. I ended up with the Bulgarian "Arcus 94" Hi-Power clone instead because its more true to form and it was just there. I was able to remove the magazine safety in 10 minutes by following the instructions for a "real" one. Most parts are interchangeable. Even the slides, but one is slightly longer so it looks a little awkward even though it works. I'm sure there are other parts I'll have to replace first, if ever. The Arcus is built like a friggin tank!

Anyway, just having this book as a resource might be a good reason to surrender to an FEG instead though...

20200619_143840.jpg
 
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So did I get a good deal on a NIB PPK (380), mfg in1968, with all papers for 850 OTD? It is a safe queen still unfired. I believe the older PPs and PPKs are still the finest double action pistols made. I have a S&W PPK that I have had no problems with. It is the laser engraved model and does not fall in the SN recall range. I remember when I was in Germany in 1966, many helicopter pilots on orders were buying PPKs in 380.
don't know about a great deal, but you didn't get taken by any means.
 
The PP was pretty much the standard West German Police pistol and in .32 ACP (7.65 Browning) until about 1982 when the P5, P6, & P7 9x19mm phased them out.

Never understood why the states that went P5 did so. The P6 was the single stack Sig that was all over the place five years back as surplus, and the P7 was flat small HK goodness. The P5 was a short barrel Walther P38 shorty do over.

I will say that certainly as late as January 1976 the French Police in Paris were carrying PP or PPk in .32ACP.

In 1982 you could buy a PPk .32 ACP in the American Rod & Gun for $169 US...but could not bring it home. They were even cheaper in 1973 and of course not importable then either (GCA '68). There was one in my platoon that had been bought by an NCO and pocket carried in 71-73, then sold to another NCO that pocket carried 73-74 and then sold to another NCO that was carrying in an inside the waist band holster when I let in 76. He had another buyer lined up as he was a Short timer when I left. I do wonder how many years that thing passed from NCO to NCO.

One of the Police I worked with a bit in Ulm am Donau (yep where Walther is) claimed he still carried the same PP he was issued as a policeman in 1938 in 1975. I was actually stationed across the River in Neu Ulm, but we called both communities on either side of the river "home". We trained multiple times at Rommel Kasserne ( on the Ulm City bus routes) and did most of our shooting there (besides our own, we shot G3, Uzi, MG 1 through 3, and the P1 version of the P38 pistol.)

Being young ,a moron, and shy despite belonging to the local german gun club and shooting with employees of Walther, Anshutz, and Kreifoff and getting invites I never visited any of the factories. An HK rep invited me to Oberndorf and I passed on that and I was walking in Dachau and strolled past Erma with out stepping in. Thankfully we are all only 19-22 once.

Anshutz's current president shot in our club and Walther loaned us guns and bought some ammunition. I did not appreciate how lucky I was at the time.

-kBob

kBob, you brought back many fond memories of Germany. I was stationed (1966-67) at Cooke Barracks, Goppingen. While taking to train to Munich, I met a gal from Ulm. I spent many of weekends, having big fun. Those were the days!
 
I've been carrying an early S&W (AAA serial no.), made before they extended the beavertail, for years and it's never failed me. It ran fine on Silvertips back then and on Hornady FTXs today.
 
mec
The Short Variation is well known as is the PPKS response to GCA 68 and the various calibers and configurations made in Germany, France and Georgia (!) USA.

I think the Walther PPK and PPK/s was also made in stainless steel under license by Ranger Manufacturing in Gadsen Alabama. I had one of those and had numerous problems with it. Both my German and French made PPs were well built, very reliable, and accurate.
 
Nice!

"From the People Who Brought You Volkswagen"...

NAZI Germany? 'Cause it WAS the German government under the NAZI rule that created the state owned company!

These beauties have an origin-history which predates that time, though.

My wife has a PPK/S, and thankfully S&W is now licensed to make them again. Hers is gorgeous, caresses your hand when you hold it, and as accurate as anything I've ever shot.

Hard hitter to the webbing of the hand, though, owing to the fixed barrel design. That surprised me, given the .380 chambering. Didn't bother me, but I could see where extended shooting might be felt for a while afterwards.

I tried talking her out of it:

"Uh-uh! Get your own!"

And THAT, gentlemen, is "permission"!

:D:D:D
 
"thankfully S&W is now licensed to make them again"
Is that a mistake? I thought Walther USA was making them.
I had it in my head to buy a Walther USA one until I saw that they made the rear sight integral instead of dovetailing them in. Not a big deal except I hate shortcuts, but I've never had to adjust the sight on my PPKs.
 
"thankfully S&W is now licensed to make them again"
Is that a mistake? I thought Walther USA was making them.
I had it in my head to buy a Walther USA one until I saw that they made the rear sight integral instead of dovetailing them in. Not a big deal except I hate shortcuts, but I've never had to adjust the sight on my PPKs.

My bad. You are correct. I should have just said that they're now being made in the United States again.

Walther's Ft. Smith factory, and with the Walther logo only on them!

Thanks for the correction!
 
Speaking of Ulm and Volkspistol … one of my German friends brought me a relic that consisted of the frame and barrel of one of the actual Volkspistol models. It was of the variety that used delayed blowback via gas ports in the barrel. He found it I the mud one winter on the edge of the Danube when he was about ten and used it as a toy gun.

Occasionally you would see a Walther of one model of another that was not properly marked. The Ulm police referred to them as lunch pail guns as the belief was that they came out of the Walther plant piece by piece in lunch pails of the workers. Just like Johnny Cash's Cadillac.

They called black market guns Bahnhoff Waffen, Train station weapons, as they said guns and dope got sold in such places, especially in the men's room. I was once approached in Augsberg and offered an RG in that very place. I said no. The other thing common in Train Station men's room were CID agents posing as gun and dope sellers....

When I got my first Ruger RST4 at 14 my adult neighbor tagged along with Dad and I to shoot and he brought a German made PP in .32 ACP. I shot several magazines though it and my biggest issue then was the sights. being the mid 1960's all the ammo was FMJ.

I thought the PPk/s was sort of backwards until I understood that the reason for it was to make points to get in the country under GCA68. I thought it would have made more sense to have a PPk grip frame and a PP slide and barrel. That way you got better conceal ability in a IWB holster with the short grip but gave up no velocity in little bitty pistol rounds to a short barrel.

My worst PP series experience was a pre War PPk that unbeknown to me had a mechanical issue. I fired the whole magazine in roughly half a second! With one pull of the trigger! Used gun in a friends shop. Disconector was missing with its spring once we got it apart. I still do not understand how it managed to go full auto even with the hammer following the slide, but it did.

When I was stationed in Hanau the State Police Academy across the street from my office was using PP pistols when I first got there and they used blue plastic training bullets in them a good bit. Oddly the Hessians still taught Police Cadets the FN FAL (G1) as their rifle. One of the older instructors told me they had M1 Carbines in the 50's and early '60s but that they got the G1 when the Army adopted the HK 51 as the G3. They shot those with blue plastic training ammo as well both on an indoor range. Frankfurt Special Police group changed over to the P6 but I believe regular city and highway cops were going to get the P5 as I left.

German and Austrian Border Police both carried PP in 1976 during the winter Olympics. While Innesbruck city police carried concealed ( they had on over coats and there was heavy snow that day) so I do not know their pistols but about half open carried an MPi 69 Styer SMG ....I guess an early move to 9x19 mm for German speaking police!

I got to look at one of the PP on the border well because the US Army had just changed our leave forms and the Austrian that ask for my papers did not recognize them and over reacted by drawing. Fortunately his German Counter part had a clip board with a copy and explanation of the new paper work on it and all was cleared up with no .32 holes in any part of kBob. Despite being not NATO or Com Block the Austrians accepted our military ID with leave papers as a passport when they recognized them and were not paranoid about terrorists messing up another Olympics. I got a good look at a German Border police PP in 1974 while entering the country via air in civies and forgetting I had a Harmonica in my breast pocket during a pat down search. Also got to look at a then BRAND NEW HK MP5 during that mix up.

-kBob
 
I’ve mentioned my issues with a Manhurin PPK/s .380 before; I loved the look but the gun stunk.

I kept the FEG SMK .380 I bought as a backup in the 1990’s, and I still have it. Those FEG copies were/are really well made knock-offs of their original guns. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
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