From the People Who Brought You Volkswagon

[mec]

"piece by piece in lunch pails of the workers."
That happens. Here it was A CEO at Colt. The mfg process produces chips by the 55 gallon drum which leave the plant as scrap. The Then -CEO had his own gun shop and was burying Ar15 receivers in the drums and taking them home wih him. According to a very disgruntled custom pistol smith ( who had been trying to get a promised single action for custom work from this guy) the factory showed the dude the door but declined to prosecute.

 

[Gordon]

I took a Walther Ppk .380 to Vietnam in my trouser pocket on the 707 that took me there from Oakland then Manila. I had unmarked fatiques as I was a 97b e5 Sgt. With classified orders to report to Mach V for assignment. I was fluent in Vietnamese after 84 weeks at Dliwc language school and fresh out of Arlington Hall agent school. I had three magazines and a box of 50 Geco ball rounds. I purched the Ulm Made gun in Monterey Calif in 1967 and carried it unloaded in mags or gun until I got dropped off at the Hotel in Saigon ,where I loaded it and picketed the magazines. No body had frisked me the whole trip. It was 10 days before Tet 68 and old Saigon was yet undestroyed and you could roam around. I looked up my instructor's families, as I had promised and visited the Zoo, the racetrack and the floating restaurant while waiting for orders. The night of Tet I had gone up on the roof of the hotel, which had ceiling fans and it was hit, to look at the city lights wondering about orders and half drunk. All of a sudden the sky lights up and I thought " wow they really celebrate the New Year. Until the MP barracks next door siren went off and loadspeakers said Alert ! I went back to my room with my Ppk ready for a thing . The whole story will take pages to relate. The PPk never left VN. I pulled it on a wayward Taxi driver trying to get to MachV headquarters a few days later.it got traded to an Air America pilot in Udorn. The thing really kicked and cut the web of my hand when I had fired it in the states, but was very accurate. I got 3 PP s made in all three calibers now, nice guns.

 

[mec]

a long time ago on eif the import companies had a close PP knock-off in .22 lrfrom Korea that they said was the best thing thay had going at tine time. It really did look like a high quality item. Cant remember the company or the Korean factory though it was probably Dawoo before the breajk-up

 

[Antihero]

Hmm....I need to get a PPK clone one day

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

a long time ago on eif the import companies had a close PP knock-off in .22 lrfrom Korea that they said was the best thing thay had going at tine time. It really did look like a high quality item. Cant remember the company or the Korean factory though it was probably Dawoo before the breajk-up

Yup, the Deawoo DP52. Never seen one in the flesh, only in books.

The Turkish Kirrikale concern made a direct copy as well at one point.

 

[bannockburn]

I had one of those Walther PP police guns for awhile til I sold it to my brother. Looked to have been carried very little and most likely shot even less. It was in great shape inside and out and was both reliable and accurate. The DA trigger was typically long and heavy but the SA was fairly decent.

 

[Speedo66]

The thing really kicked and cut the web of my hand when I had fired it....

Exactly the reasons I sold a couple of .380 W. German PPK/S's. Used to carry one as a backup, but almost every time I fired one it left marks.

 

[mec]

My PP .32 is markedly less obstreperous than the 380 ppk- even when shooting S&B ball and the hotter european loads.

 

[Gordon]

I currently have collected three Ulm made PP s . The first was a .22 from the early 70 s in an interarms box with test target. It is the smallest DA .22 lr I have encountered that is very reliable with most loads. Very accurate too. My Beretta model 70 is close, but a bit pickyer. It is a great kit gun just like Skeeter Skelton said, which is why I got it in early 80 s. Magizines are pricey and only facty ones work well. Next PP was a German border police one that looks as new, in the box and you can get .32 acp excellent Mecgar magazines for it. It shoots great, perfectly reliable and accurate. A bit bigger and heavier than modern .380 s tho and much bigger than the good Keltec . 32 which is what I am carrying today on vacation. The last PP I bought was a .380 , which at $600 acouple years ago was high , but I wanted it. It is a early 60s gun and the 9mm kurz PPs are quite scarce compared to same caliber PPK. It's just bigger and heavier enough to not beat you up like a PPK does. I have an ankle holster, a couple belt holster and a shoulder holster they all fit in. But these days I EDCa Walther PPS .40 where licensed

 

[bannockburn]

Gordon

My Beretta model 70 is close, but a bit pickyer. It is a great kit gun just like Skeeter Skelton said, which is why I got it in early 80 s. Magizines are pricey and only facty ones work well.

I read about the Beretta Model 70S in Guns an Ammo when it was first introduced here. Not wanting to start any Teutonic Tempest but I would go with my Italian made Beretta Model 90 "Roma" in .32 and my Beretta Model 70S over a Walther PP in .22 or .32 any time. The Model 90 was very nicely designed and built and had a sweet DA trigger. The Model 70S is still running strong with nary a problem with any ammo all these years and with very decent accuracy when target ammo is used. Your right about the magazines; definitely go with factory made if you can find them but be prepared to pay a royal ransom for them. I managed to find a magazine for a Model 101 that even though it's a bit longer than the one for the Model 70S it still works perfectly.

 

[mec]

I like the look so those. Last year there was a model- can\'t remember the number but was 380 that appeared to be commercially available. There were rumors that they were still being made for the European (or elsewhere) market and a few were making it over here. I tried to learn about if from Beretta but got the same ghost treatment I have come to expect from Beretta's in-house representative.

 

[Gordon]

My Beretta .22 is actually a Jaguar two barrel set, 3.5" and 6". I threaded the 6" 1/2x28" but have yet to put a little hearing protection device on it. I found the Beretta 21 .22 lr not to be reliable enough and sold it. I have found the Beretta 20 .25 perfectly reliable as are the earlier 950 series. Your hArd chromed 70 is somewhat famous ! I was talking about the Walther pp .22 and .380 factory mags. The Beretta mags are in the same boat tho.Beware the available Promags.

 

[bannockburn]

mec

In a medium size frame I think the Beretta Model 70 series was a great compact size pistol. Nice ergonomics, smooth and light single action trigger, easy to use thumb safety (well at least if you're right handed), decent sights, and compact and lightweight enough (even with all steel construction), to carry it comfortably all day long.

Have not heard any rumors about the 70 series still being built as they were superseded by the 80 series (DA/SA design), many years ago.

 

[bannockburn]

Gordon

Likewise I never had much success with the Beretta Model 21 but did have a Model 20 in .25 ACP that was a super little pocket auto, especially with it's DA trigger! Same with the earlier Model 950BS though I always worried about that tiny thumb safety coming off when I was pocket carrying it!

 

[cfullgraf]

I like the look so those. Last year there was a model- can\'t remember the number but was 380 that appeared to be commercially available. .

The double stack Beretta 380 acp model is the Model 84. There is a single stack version, the Model 85. The 32 ACP double stack version is the Model 81. All three were available in updated models at least up to a couple years ago. They may still available.

 

[bannockburn]

cfullgraf

I had the Model 84 and the Model 85. Well built guns and all but to me they were just a little too big for the .380 cartridge. I kept the Model 84 for home defense for awhile and used the Model 85 for instructing new shooters stepping up from a .22 auto.

 

[Tallball]

This is what the Beretta 84 and 81 look like. The 84 is Israeli surplus and kind of scratched up. The 81 is one of the recent Italian surplus. I like the Altamont grips for my XXL hands. They are both good shooters. The 81 is great for teaching new shooters, since the recoil is nil.

Beretta 84 And 81

• Tallball
• Oct 7, 2019

 

[usp9]

a long time ago on eif the import companies had a close PP knock-off in .22 lrfrom Korea that they said was the best thing thay had going at tine time. It really did look like a high quality item. Cant remember the company or the Korean factory though it was probably Dawoo before the breajk-up

Yup, the Deawoo DP52. Never seen one in the flesh, only in books.

The Turkish Kirrikale concern made a direct copy as well at one point.

Daewoo made the PP clone pistols in both .22lr and .380. I have both. I've also owned or own various Walther models; PP in both .32 and .22lr and PPK/S in .22lr and .380.

Here's the Daewoo DP52 and a Walther PP together.


The Kimber imported Daewoo guns are very well machined, better than the Walthers and equal or better than the Ranger made models. They were only available for a few years and are thus pretty rare. The Daewoo finish is more utilitarian, almost Glock like in look and feel. They are all steel and have good usable sights. The Walthers are beautifully blued of course. The only flaw in the Daewoo is that they come with a thumb rest grip panel instead of flat. They work like a clock. Haven't found any ammo in either caliber that won't function. I rate the Daewoo as a better, though less sexy, product over the Walthers and I'm a Walther fan.

Here's the .380acp version. Has a healthy recoil but doesn't cut or bite. Similar to a Sig P230 in recoil feel.



Another model I've used that one might compare to the Walther series is the Astra Constable. I've owned these in both calibers, .22lr and .380acp, as well. Well made and reliable with good ergonomics, these are worth owning and can be had for fairly low prices. Take down is a little different than the Walthers and has a modern slide release lever.



The Walther started the trend and thankfully others have provided us with many offspring.

 

[golden]

I own a PPK and used to own a FRENCH made PP, both in .32ACP. Both were well made, accurate and reliable. In the end, I sold the PP because it KICKED HARDER for me than the smaller PPK. The reason has to due with the grip shape. The PP has a squared off rear grip. This gets painful in the webb of my hand when shooting.
The PPK has a reshaped grip which is rounded at the back and does not bother the webb of my hand.
One day, I shot 90 rounds of .32ACP ball through the PP and the webb of my hand hurt. I had previouisly fired 120 rounds, in one session with my PPK without feeling any wear on my hand, so I sold the PP.
I imagine it would be worse with the .380ACP because of the heavier recoil. It would be especially bad with the PPKS, which combines the PP grip with the lighter PPK barrel and slide.

I read that S&W extended the tang because of complaints by shooters having their hand bitten by the PPK slide. This never happened to me, so I suspect it was a problem for large handed shooters.

I still have the PPK and it is just as accurate and reliable as when I purchased it. It was retired as my off duty gun when GLOCK brought out the GLOCK 42. The GLOCK is superior in every way, the PPK is still a classic.

Jim

 

[test drive]

I have the FEG R61 I think it’s ppk size? Love the gun it’s chaimberd in 9x18.
There was a time when FEG was makeing the ppks under license for Walther.
FEG did make a fine gun