Full Metal Jackets vs. Hollow Points

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hmmm...maybe, but Aussie cops are a heck of a lot more reluctant to open fire on anyone than American cops. That doesn't mean they won't, it's happened here before. And besides, if a cop came to the scene, whether it was a toy or not, whether the other guy had a gun or not, I'd drop it straight away!

But I think I'll stick with my original theory:

be smart enough not to get into a gunfight, and be clever enough to be able to stop one without using the gun

In any case, I wouldn't have the guts to try it!
 
Natural Marksman,

All our good intentions not withstanding, if "being smart enough not to get into a gunfight, and being clever enough to be able to stop one without using the gun" is our primary plan, I suggest that it might be wise for us to develop and practice a really, really good backup plan.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
Have you seen the latest batman movie? See the scene where the guys all stick up their guns at the Joker, and he flashes the inner layer of his coat to show them his little gallery of grenades? :D

Hmmm...

You think it could work in real life? I think a vest full of FAKE C3 probably would. C3 is able to be detonated from strong impact...and it'd be a good bluff

Not a good idea I think.

I think I'll stay indoors for a while :)

What plan B did you have in mind?
 
"And the thing about the changing magazines from a FMJ-loaded mag to a JHP-loaded mag...I got an idea, although in practice it might not work, but just a thought:

What if you keep the chamber loaded with a FMJ, and the rest of the magazine loaded with JHP? In that case, just rack the slide if you don't want to use the FMJ. Alternatively, you could just load up fully with lead-filled hollow points."

Back in the real old days if you carried a revolver as an LEO and speed loaders weren't around yet, it wasn't uncommon to see 6 AP rounds in the bullet loops. If you were at a road block you'd routinely load up your AP rounds to "kill the car". Everybody knew that a .357 magnum was capable of smashing through the engine block and exiting through the trunk.
Of course time was of the essence. In a somewhat similar scenario, as a tank commander we were trained to reload the main gun if time permitted if the target was unsuitable for APFSDS (sabot). If they were an immediate threat the fire command included, "fire sabot, load heat (or whatever, HEP, beehive). There was simply no way the loader could remove and reload faster than he could simply reload.
 
Natural Marksman,

I will leave the selection of your plan B to you. Mine is already in place and might not work for you.

For me, the bottom line is simple: to possess the knowledge, skills, tools,and abilities to employ deadly force when such action is lawful/appropriate, and the good judgment to be able to make that determination under stress in a rapidly and violently evolving environment. This is not a goal one attains, but rather a lifelong learning process.

I mean no disrespect to you, but toy guns, fake C-4, and bluffing do not have a place in my tool kit. I have buried too many friends to see this as anything less than a serious business.

But these are just my thoughts.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
I would have to respectfully agree with DarkSoldier. Although you may be "joking" about the bluffs, just the thought of using deadly force should be a well thought out personal decision. The bluff scenarios you suggested would likely result in more harm to you and innocent people around you. You don't only have to think about you in these scenarios, but others as well. Brandishing a fake gun at a BG would likely get you shot in a hurry. In real life situations there are is either action or inaction, either of which can get you killed.
 
I
think a vest full of FAKE C3 probably would. C3 is able to be detonated from strong impact...and it'd be a good bluff
Click to expand...

C3? There is an explosive code named C4, but no "C3" that I am aware of. Nor will either C4 or grenades detonate from a bullet hit -- I know, because I've shot both. Tanks carry tiles of explosives, but these are for defeating shaped charge warheads, not solid projectiles.

And do you know how long you'd be in jail if some cop arrested you for having grenades or C4?
 
I feel pretty stupid :D

No, I'd never try, even using fake toys and stuff. It is a pretty stupid thing to do...

In Australia, it is very unlikely you'd come across a guy carrying a gun (other than cops). In America, I suppose you'd need to be ready with your plan B. For me, I think in most cases, running like hell will get me out of it :D

Thanks for your thoughts :)
 
Natural Marksman,

I am sure that you are NOT stupid. If I made you feel that way it was not my intent. Sometimes our life experiences make us come on a little stronger and more passionately than we need too. I meant no personal offense.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
Darksoldier, you didn't make me feel stupid. You guys just made me realise that it was a stupid thing to try, even though I'd never actually try it.

I'm only 19, and I've never been in a real fist-fight let alone a gun-fight situation. I didn't think the plan B idea through all that much, mostly because I've never had to worry about my personal safety at any time of my life. I've never been in real serious harm, like a bank robbery, or a street fight where I was on my own - although these things can and have happened here in Australia.

I made myself feel stupid, so no worries. Thanks for your thoughts guys
 
A few quick observations....

1. Bluffing is for poker, not for life-and-death self-defense....

2. Mixing ammo in the same magazine is just asking for a malfunction...different ammo in different mags makes more sense....

3. Has anyone done a study of just how much energy is left in a bullet (FMJ, SWC, or JHP) after a through-&-through shot? A little quantifiable research could go a long way in answering the OP....
 
be smart enough not to get into a gunfight, and be clever enough to be able to stop one without using the gun
Click to expand...
1. Assuming that you're a sane, sensible and non-criminal person, and you're in a gunfight, it's because somebody chose to forcibly PUT you into a gunfight. At that point, you have a choice of a gunfight or an execution, YOUR OWN.

2. Stop a gunfight without using a gun, HOW? Begging and pleading? I know this is considered eccentric and mean spirited in places here like Chicago, and possibly in Australia, but I simply refuse to trust in the better nature, common sense, or even the sheer sanity of people who point guns at me. Once you point a gun at me, you've crossed a line that can't be uncrossed. You have at that time communicated to me the statement, "You need to shoot me, and you need to do it now!" If that's what you want to say, I'm going to justifiably assume that you're sincere. Of course that will likely be your last testament...

If somebody points a gun at me, the only "Plan B" is an alternate means of bringing lethal force to bear against them in such a way as to eliminate the threat to me which they pose in the quickest possible fashion, with as little unnecessary danger to myself and innocent third parties as possible.
 
Deanimator,

Very well said. I agree with you. Once that line is crossed, its time to do something the opposition is going to find very unpleasant.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
Jim4065:

I was selected for jury duty about two years ago-my first time.

The low-life was charged with holding a knife near the face of one or two people 'cause he wanted the lady's purse (inside VA Hospital).
The jury seems to have been about half Cauc./half black. Over half of us raised our hands when the judge asked whether we had been crime victims (mine was burglary).

We convicted the guy and being a previous two-time felon he is serving 14 years. After the verdict, the bailiff told us in the back hallway that 45% of the max. sentence must be served.
He also told us that we had not been allowed to hear in the courtroom that the defendent was previously convicted of the same crime: aggravated assault.
The scumbag's misdemeanor list was about a page long.
I enjoyed locking him away in the...eh...Tennessee (?) State 'Doubletree Hotel'.
Pardon the boring details, but it was my visit in a criminal court.
 
A situation may feel dangerous to the person who was there and drew and shot. The shooting in the movie Crash is a good example of that. A person picks up a hitch hiker and after a while an argument breaks out and the hitch hiker angrily starts to pull out something from his pocket. The driver shoots him, just to see that the hitch hiker had tried to pull out a small statuette. It's easy to see that a ruling in a court of law, regarding that case, can go either way. I might have thought that it was a wrongful shooting, being told about the situation by an oily, angry prosecutor. I look forward to sit in on a jury because that means I became an American sitizen down the road. I cling to my guns but I'm neither religious or afraid of loosing my job. I'm unemployed by choice. Obama sucks.
 
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