Gun Show sexism

Status
Not open for further replies.
There's always at least 3 or 4 dealers there that are pushing NAZI memorabilia and not for historical collectors but because they're freaking NAZI's. Talk to 'em - you'll get the idea real quick. Toss in a few hard core right wing militia types for good measure.
Click to expand...

So THATs where the Nazi's went! I used to see them here in Houston & still look for them (some kinda sick fascination, I guess. The Hitler tattoos are creepy).

What do those guys do when they finally get proper medication, look down at their arms & wonder what the heck were they thinking? What kind of jobs can they get? [Rhetorical question]

Edited: #78. "A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect" Sorry, should have been clearer.
 
Last edited:
What I find funny is around hunting season at the range they teach hunter ed. One of the instructors is a 17 year old girl who can clover leaf 5 shots at 100 with her .243. The look on some of those guys faces.
 
What do those guys do when they finally get proper medication, look down at their arms & wonder what the heck were they thinking? What kind of jobs can they get? [Rhetorical question]
Click to expand...

A job where they wear long-sleeved shirts all day?


I would like to point out one thing: female shooters who are interested in firearms such that they'll go into shops and shows on their own, are incredibly rare in my experience. I see couples come in all day long, fathers and daughters fairly often, and groups of women once in a while. But I could almost count on one hand the number of times I've seen a woman walk in alone. Sexism is never acceptable, nor is any form of discrimination based on appearance. But it is worth considering that the shooting sports are heavily, heavily, heavily male-dominated across the board. It's not a 70/30 split in my experience, but probably closer to 95/5 from what I've seen. Social? Cultural? Genetic? Whatever the reason, it really does influence the market heavily. The reason dealers get away with behavior such as that is directly related to the fact that there really isn't a significant financial impact from it, at least in most cases and places. Times are changing, but still the ratio is incredibly skewed, and until it changes those attitudes will remain out there.
 
I'll admit that I only read the first page so if somebody else has mentioned this, I apologize.

I don't think it's exclusively sexism. I'd guess a part of it is simply that she's young. I'm 18 and I've found that few dealers treat me as well as the older customers. Generally the only ones that do are the ones who I tell very specifically what I'm looking for. (If you ask for a walnut K31 or GP11, they tend to believe you know what you want and are willing to buy). If I'm just browsing the tables, people tend to keep an eye on me and be rather rude, as if I was going to steal something. :mad:
 
I would like to point out one thing: female shooters who are interested in firearms such that they'll go into shops and shows on their own, are incredibly rare in my experience.
Click to expand...

Hi, my name is Sara and I buy guns without male oversight. :D

But, sometimes my husband tags along. It's easier to navigate a gun show when there's someone to help with the kid (especially now that she is tall enough to reach the tabletops laden with knives :eek:), and after all, I married the guy. We like spending time together.

That I don't always go to stores and shows alone simply means I don't like being alone. It doesn't mean I am not alone because I am not comfortable enough, competant enough, or interested enough to go alone.

Hm, ok, guns we have purchased:

Rossi matched pair: bought by me, alone, from gun shop. Sexist morons. I shoulda' walked, but I was intimidated by my first gun purchase and thought I couldn't expect better.

870 Wingmaster: bought by me, alone, birtday gift for husband. Gander Mountain. Nice guys, good price. I don't like the gun, but then it wasn't for me, and he likes it.

S&W model 59: no one bought it. Wedding gift from my best friend to my husband.

Benelli Montefeltro: bought by me, alone, from a guy on a shotgun forum.

Marlin model 60: Bought by me, alone, from a small gun shop. Nice guys. In shopping for that gun, I found a local gun store whose door I will never darken again for reasons of sexist bs and general moronitude.

Mosin m91/30: Bought by us, for us, picked out by me because I'd done a bit more research. Bought this one at a gun show. He treated me and us fine. Maybe a bit paternal, but he was aobut fifty years older than me and I was all excited about my pretty new mil-surp, so it was cool.

Hm, so our ratio on gun buys: Her-4, Him-0, Them-1.

Maybe we're weird. *shrug*
But given our experience, maybe rethink that if a woman is with a man in a shop/show she is tagging along.

Oddly, we are spot on with the gender stereotypes: I like to do the shopping. :D
 
First off, Selena, sounds like you had great Uncles. I know from experience
that hard labor gets the point across rather well. Still, I have dug more than my fair
share of 3 foot deep post holes.

Second, I see the sexist issues at the shows and stores, not just guns but cars and
every other male dominated area. I have known gals that shot on par with myself or
better first time out. I have been shooting for many years and consider myself a good
shot. I have also known a few that could teach me a few things about automotive work
and I do most of the work on my trucks and motorcycles myself (rebuilt rear-ends,
carburetors, swapped axils, took apart almost the entire front of a 77 Chevy after a wreck
and made it more than just drivable).

Third, as others have said if you don't look the part, to them you aint. If I go to a booth
that has what I want and it is manned by the guys in the black vests with the high and
tight hair I usually get ignored (I have long hair and a beard). Same goes with some
of the older guys with the 1911 tables (not so much as I get older). If I am there alone
I am there to buy something not just look around. I don't have time to waste.

Finally, whatever job a person has, whatever they get paid they chose to be there.
If you dig ditches, be the best darn ditch digger around. If you clean toilets make em sparkle.
If you sell guns know what you are selling. If you deal with people at least be polite and
courteous. I have done all of the above and the first day was no different than the last
except that I was better at it than when I started.

Oh.... and everyone should know how to sew... came in handy just the other morning for
my only pair of clean slacks.
 
Last edited:
We almost always buy guns when we're both together too...but that's because we're almost always both together anyway :neener::D I have bought one gun in a store that he wasn't there for, and that was his Christmas present a few years back...a Springfield 1911. Couldn't very well have him there for that, lol (and before someone asks, he had already tried it out for himself and knew it fit him).

It's just that if he's buying for himself, I sort of hang back as second fiddle; not disinterested, just not "the customer". If it's me buying, he does the same.

But if I go into a store and start asking him what he thinks the clerk WILL assume he's the knowledgable one and I'm the newb. And that's what happened in the OP's situation, as far as I can tell from his post. Send those cues and it's not fair to then smack the clerk for sexism.

Barbara, I love your idea about the photo. Go for it, and tell us what he says.

Springmom
 
My daughter can shoot the **** out of an XD 45 Tactical.

There are a bunch of guys who still think "the little lady" should shoot a .22 with a pink grip. They need to get over it.

Ah, well, change is slow.
 
The last time my wife went gun shopping on her own, she came home complaining that an employee had been assigned to watch her more closely on the range than is done when we are together. She suspected that they assumed that she was less than competent either because she is female or Asian or both.

I have another guess. My guess is that, since she was shopping for something suitable for rapid follow up shots, she was breaking the range rule restricting rate of fire. I further guess that she was not corrected because she was keeping her shots on the paper and mostly in the black and they possibly cut her some slack because she was Asian and female.
 
Last time I was at the range I was teaching a couple of attractive young ladies, er, I mean novices, how to shoot. One of them pointed out to me that there was a sign that said, "NO RAPID FIRE." I said, "It isn't rapid fire if I'm hitting the target. They are trying to discourage careless fire." What some may consider rapid fire, I don't.

Anyway, to the point of the thread, my wife carries "my" H&K USP 40. Blames me for selling "her" Glock. I get stuck with the 5 shot 38. I would prefer her carrying the 38 simply because I'm a lot more proficient with shooting than she is. I have seen her struggle with correcting "no bang" situations like safety on, and other administrative functions. I would prefer her to have a "point and shoot dummy" gun. She can hit the target, but chooses NOT to be intimately familiar with the function of the weapon. It doesn't interest her. If it did, I'm sure she could do it. I don't mean this as an insult to all women, but it does apply to my situation.

So when a salesman comes off as sexist, try to remember that right or wrong his statements are a culmination of his experiences. Change his experience paradigm and maybe make it better for the next lady.
 
Hi Working Man,

Finally, whatever job a person has, whatever they get paid they chose to be there. If you dig ditches, be the best darn ditch digger around. If you clean toilets make em sparkle. If you sell guns know what you are selling. If you deal with people at least be polite and courteous. I have done all of the above and the first day was no different than the last except that I was better at it than when I started.
Click to expand...

I see you and Dad read the same rulebook anyway. Dad and Uncle Lee insisted their girls know how to change a tire, replace an air filter and fan belt, skin an animal and kill cow, hog and bison humanely. Their boys had to know how to cook, clean, sew and change a diaper. We all had to know how to use tools safely and that included firearms.

I remember when David and I were first married and he talked me into going to the rifle range on base with him. The range Sgt took one look at me and my Winchester Carbine and had a look that... He set me up on the 50 meter line and I proceeded to fire 12 bullseyes. Before was the only time he ever made a comment about my getting a 'real' rifle.

Selena
 
If you think that's bad try being a man going into a knitting store...
Click to expand...
BTDT, it wasn't pretty.

Are we talking about someone being vocally rude, or just assuming that women don't know what they are talking about? IMO there is nothing wrong with a firearm salesman talking to someone like they don't know jack until that person starts to talk the talk. Then it can be moved to a mature firearm conversation. Now if after she starts talking the talk, and the seller doesn't move the conversation to the big kids table, fine, he is a jerk. But until a woman (or anyone really) shows they know what they are talking about, I think its fair game to start the conversation like they don't.
Click to expand...

There's a real art to assuming someone is ignorant about a topic and talking to them simply without talking down to them. Then either seemlessing increasing the level as they respond and demonstrate what their actual level understanding is, or stopping and saying "let's start over". It's something I used to work on when explaining things to my kids when they were young (I'll not say that I got good at it, but it's something I always at least made an effort to do.) I think too many people think ignorance = stupid, plus they don't know how to switch gears in mid-conversation.
 
Hello Selena,

I see you and Dad read the same rulebook anyway. Dad and Uncle Lee insisted their girls know how to change a tire, replace an air filter and fan belt, skin an animal and kill cow, hog and bison humanely. Their boys had to know how to cook, clean, sew and change a diaper. We all had to know how to use tools safely and that included firearms.
Click to expand...

Its about self reliance. Sew both the seed and the shirt. Change both the oil and the
diaper. Clean both the rifle and the house.

These things are not relegated by sex but by a mindset developed by misperception
and misperceptions can be dangerous.

Such things really do hurt our cause.

Richard
 
You've never had to ride 130 miles with a man insufferable pleased with himself or you would understand.

Selena
Click to expand...
Yea, I would be the pain in the arse someone would be riding with. :D

Sorry he was a pain for 130 miles, but I love the way he made his point.
 
The three you can trust are your God, your mother and yourself. And on occasion even the first two will let you down.
Click to expand...

Never had the first let me down, can't say the same about the third.
 
There is a girl at my local gun store, cant be much older than 21 or so. She is one of the most knowlegeable in the shop. Its family owned, I dont know if shes the owners daughter, or a gunner who works there or what, but she knows her stuff. I prefer to deal with her, everyone there is fine, but she likes to talk and ramble about the guns and so do I so it makes it fun to shop there. And my mom outshoots me,she has atleast 20 guns. She also has worked as a welder/pipefitter, logger, skidder operator, park ranger, and several other jobs that are seen as mens fields so Ive seen this all my life. She does all her own auto repair. If she needs a trailer, she doesnt buy one, she buys the steel and makes it. Heres the thing, she always gets the same attitude, etc at first, but it takes about 1 day for all the men to realize she can work as hard and compitant as any of them. I think its her personal vendetta to work in every male dominated field just to show them women can do it as well or better. She always succeeds!! Needless to say I dont have a sexist bone in my body. Show them that you do know your stuff and dont buy from them, maybe it will change their opinion, doesnt hurt to try.
 
"Ma'am you dont want to start shooting with something like that it will scare you too much and then you will never want to shoot a gun again"
Click to expand...

I disagree slightly with the above posters saying that he was out of line. He was only partially out of line. A clerk (any clerk) is not just there to say "yes" and "no", he's also there to help out (if he knows his dirt at all). It would seem that a recommendation that a Mosin has some recoil (depends, though, I could shoot my 91/30 all day long, but pick up my friend's M44 and I could only go through about 10 rounds) that recommendation would be reasonable. What is not reasonable is assuming that she's starting out shooting. I wouldn't mind the recoil recommendation to anyone male or female. But the assumption that she's just starting out is ridiculous.

I've seen the sexism here and elsewhere, and it's just wrong. My mother gets that a lot when she's dealing with cars. She used to be a mechanic before she had us kids, and knows what she's talking about. But because she's female.....man, some people need to get a clue.
 
Hi Bear,

I disagree slightly with the above posters saying that he was out of line. He was only partially out of line. A clerk (any clerk) is not just there to say "yes" and "no", he's also there to help out (if he knows his dirt at all).
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but it would have been far more ... shall we say diplomatic to ask how she was effected by recoil than to tell her it would 'scare her.' But then my personnal 'bugaboo' is when some *deleted due to low road* naturally assumes I'm going to get frightened over something and need a man to protect me. After surviving 14 months of being in Chicago's foster care system the only thing that scares me is an idiot with authority.

Selena
 
I dunno about other gun salespeople, but personally I just flat-out ask what someone has shot in the past, and try to get a feel for their comfort level based on their indications of what they liked. On the other hand, sometimes I screw up. I've got a good customer who bought a small, polymer-framed 9mm and wound up selling it because it had too much recoil for him. Not that long after, he was asking me about getting a Beretta 9000 in .40 S&W. I suggested that .40 might be a bit much, since he hadn't cared for 9mm in a slightly smaller weapon. He insisted that he wanted it, so I sold it..and he wound up absolutely loving it. Go figure. Recoil can be really subjective in certain instances..and ultimately the only way for someone to find out whether it's for them or not is to try it.
 
Hi Wes,

I dunno about other gun salespeople, but personally I just flat-out ask what someone has shot in the past, and try to get a feel for their comfort level based on their indications of what they liked.
Click to expand...

And you sir would get my business with that attitude. Just for my own curiosity...
My current handgun is a Colt DA revolver in 32-20 which I can handle easily. My Gramps artillery model Lugar I can also shoot without discomfort. Dad's '09' .45 LC is too much recoil as is my husband's .40. (Although I think that is more because of the grip.) I can handle my husband's 9mm Beretta but not more than three magazines at any one time.

We are on a limited budget, army pay plus my income from a trust fund/annuity account. Say in the neighborhood of $400 to $600 and used is OK. What would you suggest for target practice/self defense?

Selena
 
I like the gun store I use most of the time.

People go in and tell the sales-person what they want. Then the sales-person gets it and lets them see it. If they like it, the sales-person sells it to them. Everyone gets happy.


Did I mention that the sales person that usually helps me is a woman? I know... it causes cats and dogs to lay down together. Somewhere in Paraguay, it rained frogs.


-- John
 
My CCW instructor was a young lady. She shoots better than me with semi-autos.

As far as gun shows go... I love to see good looking young ladies at shows. :) Helps make the gun show experience more enjoyable. I don't assume anyone doesn't know about guns if they are at a show. Heck, many women know more about semi-autos than I do. They just aren't my thing.... strictly a utility gun to me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Moms 1st Gun Show
Replies
14
Views
1K
P95Carry
P
L
  • Locked
Understanding Women (in regards to guns)
Replies
0
Views
465
Lucky
L
A
  • Locked
The girlfriend is hooked!
2 3
Replies
69
Views
3K
P5 Guy
P5 Guy
M
  • Locked
"prop" gun misshap
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
Slamfire
Slamfire
X
  • Locked
My Daughter's First Gun
Replies
18
Views
990
XD Fan
X
Back
Top