Hell has frozen over... a liberal taking our side!

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There are a lot of "liberals" who support the 2nd Amendment.

Political labels are useless in this day and age, IMO...but that's another topic. ;)

It's a good article, though...something for that stubborn co-worker or family member.

-Mark
 
oops, didn't realize it had been posted before, in my defense I was still in shock from reading the article.
 
I'm a "classic liberal."

Frankly, I think that folks have -really- misused the labels. I'm far from "conservative." But that doesn't mean that I have to be diametrically opposed to all things "conservative."

One thing I've noticed - conservatives don't get stuff done. Sometimes "change" is needed and necessary, and you have to rattle cages until it happens. I think some fellows named Jefferson, etc., did that sort of thing.

What gets me is that we've ended up with two political parties which are so polarized that if one of them comes up with an idea, no matter how good, the other is automatically opposed to it.

For example, I'm for development of alternative energy sources (darned hippie!) and I also don't see any problem with tapping Alaskan oil reserves (filthy greedy capitalist!).
 
One thing I've noticed - conservatives don't get stuff done.
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More specifically, conservative often fail to get things un-done. Unwinding a lot of "stuff" (legislation or the results thereof) often, if not usually, requires more effort than did getting it "done" the first time around.
 
Bogie, I don't think you'll find any conservatives who are against development of alternative energy sources. We are just against the government mandating it, and doing it to the detriment of all else. If the free market wants alternative energy, then let's go ahead and do it. If the market doesn't, who is the government to tell us to do it?
 
Bogie, I don't think you'll find any conservatives who are against development of alternative energy sources. We are just against the government mandating it, and doing it to the detriment of all else. If the free market wants alternative energy, then let's go ahead and do it. If the market doesn't, who is the government to tell us to do it?
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AMEN says the choir!!
 
There are already liberals taking our side. Many of them are on this site, already working hard for liberty.

Every time you want to bash a liberal, first think about how many of those on our side you are about to insult. And then think about how many who might come to our side, who reading needlessly polarizing views, won't.

Liberty cuts deeper than these labels.
 
One thing I've noticed - conservatives don't get stuff done. Sometimes "change" is needed and necessary, and you have to rattle cages until it happens. I think some fellows named Jefferson, etc., did that sort of thing.
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And conversely change for the sake of change or to look busy often creates more problems than it solves. Doing nothing is sometimes a valid course of action; what I wouldn't give for a lazy government, that didn't see the need to fix and tinker and meddle. Most gun laws were knee jerk "we need to DO something!" reactions to relatively inconsequential events.

What gets me is that we've ended up with two political parties which are so polarized that if one of them comes up with an idea, no matter how good, the other is automatically opposed to it.
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Once upon a time there was the understanding that while we disagreed on the method we were all working toward the same basic goal, namely what was best for America. Now the understanding is I'm right and if you disagree with me you're evil, and who wants to compromise with evil?
 
I think it's better to consider Leftist Liberals the enemy. Those that want government to do things for us, rather than support us in doing it ourselves.
I don't want the goverment to pay for my food, clothes, housing, and medical. I want the government to stand aside, protect my rights and ability to do those things, and only take what responsibly spent money they need to do that job. That is the main premise of Conservatism.
Personally, I think the legislators should be paid $40,000 a year regardless of senority, have to drive themselves places in an inexpensive, efficient car. Fly business class when they have to fly. Get government medical coverage with a $1000 deductible. And both houses must have votes that show which person voted what. They also cannot campaign for president or other office during the week while congress is in session. Weekends and off-session hours only.

The largest problem we have with Congress is the entitlements. Great pay, lots of power, and ABSOLUTELY NO ACCOUNTABILITY. Put the above restrictions in place and lets see how much more actual work gets done, how many fewer people want to be there, and how much better the quality of the characters that actually take the jobs.
 
Bogie, I don't think you'll find any conservatives who are against development of alternative energy sources. We are just against the government mandating it, and doing it to the detriment of all else. If the free market wants alternative energy, then let's go ahead and do it. If the market doesn't, who is the government to tell us to do it?
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That's all well and good, except then you get what we have now and all the bitching about $4 per gallon gas. I get ticked off by people who suck up all the "free" resources, knowing the party won't last. Then when the party does stop, it's all bitching and moaning about it.

And when the arab countries come to their senses and actually charge what the market will bear, which is much higher than what we are paying today, just how much louder are you going to whine then?

If the goverment put money into solar R&D, and subsidized costs a bit to get things into mainstream production, we would have large scale solar energy today and we would be in a position to laugh when oil prices rise.

And lets not get started with the oil industry killing the GM electric car. Another "free market" decision I suppose? Our "free markets" are not even close to being free.
 
I'm a bit left of center, (but kinda high in the libertarian scale) and I've read DailyKos and posted there a lot. There are a lot more pro-gun Democrats than you might think. Unfortunately they're not the ones with the loudest voices. My hat goes off to Democrats like Jim Webb of VA, and Jon Tester of MT for their pro-2A stances.
 
If the goverment put money into solar R&D, and subsidized costs a bit to get things into mainstream production, we would have large scale solar energy today and we would be in a position to laugh when oil prices rise.
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Carter pumped tons of money into solar, R&D and subsidies (aka corporate welfare) and we got pretty much nothing. Germany has massive subsidies for solar, the most solar installations on the planet, does tons of R&D, and yet still some of the highest energy cost in Europe. Solar is a dog in the free market.

If the people were serious about energy independence we'd be throwing up modern nuclear power plants as fast as we could. But nuclear, which we know how to do, and do well, is regulated within an inch of it's life, mainly because of irrational fear and political pandering. Hey, just like guns (staying slightly on topic).
 
It is unfortunate that all "liberals" are tagged with the "anti gun" label. However, if you look at the numbers - you'll find many more anti gun people on the left than the right. I only wish the pro gun people on the left would speak up and speak loudly more often. Hat's off to those who do!
 
okay for what it's worth, I did not want to start a debate on politics or insult anyone for their views. I started this because I thought it was a great article to read and I hear and see so much about how liberals hate guns I thought this would be a good counter view. I think the writer brings up some great points that I hope many of us can use to talk to and convert anti's with. I hope this discussion turns into a discussion on how to convert more anti's, how to start talking to them without them or us getting pissed off and pushed farther away from the other.

If it continues to be a bash the liberals or Democrats or a political argument then I hope it does get locked.
 
really think that a lot of pro-2A folks create enemies out of friends from saying things like "Democrats / liberals need to ____". There are people who vote Republican who could care less about the 2A and there are people who vote Democrat who are big supporters of the 2A.

I'm saying this because quite consistently on this website, talk radio, and everywhere else people keep continuing the US vs THEM mentality, without even knowing who 'they' are.

Oh and FYI, going into the primaries my #1 hope was Paul, then Richardson after that. I don't consider myself a Democrat so its not like I'm deeply offended by anything in this thread lol, but I don't consider myself a Republican either so I think its silly to keep making comments suggesting that only Republicans support the 2A.
 
I know it's been said to death, but labels really do not do thinking people justice. I am quite liberal on some issues, conservative on others (like, uh, gun ownership), and I have a hard time understanding those who adhere strictly to one philosophy or the other. I really get rankled when I hear liberals, Californians, etc. raked over the coals here and on other boards simply for the way they think or where they live.

For my part, I try to engage antis I meet in an even exchange of ideas, and when I do, I generally find out that a) they are in possession of very few facts and b) are clearer on how they feel than what they know. Then, the last question I always ask is "Are you completely comfortable having the only armed people in our society be the the cops and military?" That usually gives them plenty of pause.
 
Are you completely comfortable having the only armed people in our society be the the cops and military?
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And criminals. Don't forget them. The only ones without guns will be law-abiding citizens if the anti's have their way.
 
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