Lately I've had a hankering for a Hi-Power, not sure why. I currently own a CZ-75B 9mm. I hear constant raving on most forums about how great the CZ is. However, I can't shoot the thing that well and it has to have THE WORST trigger of any handgun I've ever owned! I love the ergos, but the trigger and internal finish leave much to be desired. Anyone here have both for a compare and contrast in terms of accuracy, single action triggers, etc? I do not mind at all the single action only situation of the BHP as I shoot 1911's primarily. Thanks for any input.
Hi-Power vs. CZ-75B?
- Thread starter Radjxf
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1 old 0311
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Why woud you worry about "internal finish?" How exactly does that effect a pistols function?
Walt Sherrill
Member
A first-class trigger job on a CZ is a lot cheaper than buying a BHP, which may have trigger issues of its own, until refined...
They're both good guns. I've got both. I like both.
They're both good guns. I've got both. I like both.
rdaines
Member
I have two BHP, one in 9mm and the other in 40 S&W. The 9mm shoots fine but is no tack driver in my hands but the 40 is a thing of beauty. If I could take only 1 semi-auto out of my safe (and the list includes numerous 9mm, .45 ACP, .380...) I would take the 40 S&W BHP. It has a good sight radius without being too long, fits well in my hand, is narrow enough for good concealment, and shoots 1 hole groups (for me) to 14 yards and that round desires a great deal of respect from anyone or thing on the receiving end.
Have shot the CZs so can't compare.
Have shot the CZs so can't compare.
Dave Dembinski
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If it bugs you and you're fine with SA-only, you can get your CZ converted to single-action with a real nice trigger. And like Walt said, it's less expensive than buying a BHP.
hmm, well, I have owned a CZ-75, and fired numerous Hi-powers over the years. I agree that as much as people rave about the CZ's (and they ARE good guns for the price) they are not perfect. They come across as a somewhat cheap gun, finish is so-so, trigger is ok, stock sights are a bit small, didn't love the ergonomics myself, though many do. BUT, my cz-75 was quite accurate, totally reliable, and there is no denying they are a bargain comparatively.
If I were you, I would not go out and buy a Hi-power for the reasons of accuracy and a great trigger--in my experience, neither of these is an attribute or most off the shelf hi-powers. As they come, their triggers tend to be worse probably than your cz, and possibly as a result of this accuracy is generally mediocre at best. Now, that having been said, they can be MADE to have quite nice triggers, which would probably help accuracy potential considerably, and to me they are a better looking/fitting gun. Finish is still just ok, and to me they are pretty damned pricey given that they are cast I believe rather than machined and given the level of finish, though this may be a bit better than a basic CZ on average.
So anyway, get a Hi-power because it is a classic and if you are willing to do some work on it to get it to the level you want, or if you are at least handy enough to remove the mag safety yourself, which helps.
Or for similar money you could get any number of 1911's from various vendors with better finishes and triggers right out of the box
If I were you, I would not go out and buy a Hi-power for the reasons of accuracy and a great trigger--in my experience, neither of these is an attribute or most off the shelf hi-powers. As they come, their triggers tend to be worse probably than your cz, and possibly as a result of this accuracy is generally mediocre at best. Now, that having been said, they can be MADE to have quite nice triggers, which would probably help accuracy potential considerably, and to me they are a better looking/fitting gun. Finish is still just ok, and to me they are pretty damned pricey given that they are cast I believe rather than machined and given the level of finish, though this may be a bit better than a basic CZ on average.
So anyway, get a Hi-power because it is a classic and if you are willing to do some work on it to get it to the level you want, or if you are at least handy enough to remove the mag safety yourself, which helps.
Or for similar money you could get any number of 1911's from various vendors with better finishes and triggers right out of the box
browningguy
Member
I've got 5 HP's, well 3 if you discount the Competition model and the Canuck version, and one CZ 75B. So I'm guessing you can pick which I prefer.
None of my BHP's have a magazine disconnect in them which alone improves trigger pull, my carry gun has had a little trigger smoothing done but kept the pull at 5 lbs.
I really don't shoot the CZ much, the trigger reach is much to long for me in DA mode so that that is pretty useless for me, and the DA pull is to heavy for decent accuracy (for me). Shooting in SA mode it doesn't seem to have any accuracy advantage over my BHP's. And if I am really shooting for accuracy I use the Witness Elite Match which is much more accurate than either of the two under discussion.
I think the CZ75 is a good combat gun if the trigger works well for your hand size, but I don't attach the almost mythical properties to it some owners seem to.
None of my BHP's have a magazine disconnect in them which alone improves trigger pull, my carry gun has had a little trigger smoothing done but kept the pull at 5 lbs.
I really don't shoot the CZ much, the trigger reach is much to long for me in DA mode so that that is pretty useless for me, and the DA pull is to heavy for decent accuracy (for me). Shooting in SA mode it doesn't seem to have any accuracy advantage over my BHP's. And if I am really shooting for accuracy I use the Witness Elite Match which is much more accurate than either of the two under discussion.
I think the CZ75 is a good combat gun if the trigger works well for your hand size, but I don't attach the almost mythical properties to it some owners seem to.
Golddog
Member
Which CZ trigger doesn't work for you? The DA stinks, as it does on all semis, which is why I carry mine cocked and locked. The SA is quite nice - second only to a 1911.
My BHP had a great trigger, because it had been worked on; out of the box, they're usually pretty clunky. I sold the gun because the trigger reach was too short for my long fingers and because the safety had an indistinct feel to it.
My BHP had a great trigger, because it had been worked on; out of the box, they're usually pretty clunky. I sold the gun because the trigger reach was too short for my long fingers and because the safety had an indistinct feel to it.
The double action on my gun is very long and heavy, the single action has significant takeup, creep and overtravel. I want to like this gun but the trigger is pure garbage. I do find it interesting that those with BHP's aren't commenting on it's superior accuracy--I've always heard that was one of it's strong points. I do agree they are very overpriced however. I guess I'll have to see what a trigger job runs and decide after that. Don't want to pour any more money into the CZ as it seems they are pretty hard to sell on the forums. Thanks guys.
Because there's nothing wrong with a CZ's accuracy, either - mainly because the slide runs within the frame, as opposed to outside.
It's up to the operator and the specific pistol of each type - it's that close a match.
As for me, I'll take a CZ, not because I dislike BHPs or find they are any less accurate, but because a BHP feels a bit too square in my hand - and that's purely a personal (aka subjective) factor.
It's up to the operator and the specific pistol of each type - it's that close a match.
As for me, I'll take a CZ, not because I dislike BHPs or find they are any less accurate, but because a BHP feels a bit too square in my hand - and that's purely a personal (aka subjective) factor.
10X
Member
Of the several commerial Hi Powers that I have owned I was capable of keeping 13 rounds in a 3 inch group at 25 yards. That is accurate enough for me. Before anyone yells at me, I couldn't do it all the time, but that was me.
A big help is to remove the magazine disconnect and put in a 26 pound hammer spring. That should drop the trigger pull to around 5 pounds and be pretty crisp. Look at the M1911 forum for the Hi Power section. There is a sticky at the top that explains how to do this. It is not hard at all.
A big help is to remove the magazine disconnect and put in a 26 pound hammer spring. That should drop the trigger pull to around 5 pounds and be pretty crisp. Look at the M1911 forum for the Hi Power section. There is a sticky at the top that explains how to do this. It is not hard at all.
You can improve both of them with a little work. The BHP's will probably clean up better. However, you already own a CZ75, and it is by no means a bad gun.
The real question is, how nice of a trigger do you demand, and how much are you willing to spend?
Me, I prefer the BHP. I think it is the best handgun ever made (flame suit ON), but if I was not such a fan, just wanted a nice trigger, and already owned a CZ75, I'd drop some change on a trigger job and not look back.
Mike
The real question is, how nice of a trigger do you demand, and how much are you willing to spend?
Me, I prefer the BHP. I think it is the best handgun ever made (flame suit ON), but if I was not such a fan, just wanted a nice trigger, and already owned a CZ75, I'd drop some change on a trigger job and not look back.
Mike
i have to agree that the hp safety's tend to seem to be a bit mushy too, which makes me a bit leery of cocked and locked carry. It hasn't happened often, but I HAVE had the thumb safety brushed off while carrying a 1911 a couple of times, but with them you still have the grip safety. With a hi-power...
still, it's a classic, and SOME day I should add one to the stable permanently...but every time I look at one, I seem to end up going "ooh, I don't have THAT particular 1911 you have over there in the case..." *sigh*
still, it's a classic, and SOME day I should add one to the stable permanently...but every time I look at one, I seem to end up going "ooh, I don't have THAT particular 1911 you have over there in the case..." *sigh*
HP vs CZ
CZ and BHP are my favorite 9 mm pistols. Well, your DA pull in CZ75 will be improved by shooting or dryfiring. If you want an incredible DA/SA trigger, send it to Miossi Gun Works for an action job. The DA pull will always be longer than in the HP. But HP, if you buy it new, certainly needs a trigger job on its own, plus it will have the mag disconnect.
So both choices are excellent, to me equal, pick what suits you best. The CZ is more economical, but BHP is a classic. For carry, I'd go with CZP-01, which is a great shooter, too.
For a fair comparison, look at Mr. Camp's book.
CZ and BHP are my favorite 9 mm pistols. Well, your DA pull in CZ75 will be improved by shooting or dryfiring. If you want an incredible DA/SA trigger, send it to Miossi Gun Works for an action job. The DA pull will always be longer than in the HP. But HP, if you buy it new, certainly needs a trigger job on its own, plus it will have the mag disconnect.
So both choices are excellent, to me equal, pick what suits you best. The CZ is more economical, but BHP is a classic. For carry, I'd go with CZP-01, which is a great shooter, too.
For a fair comparison, look at Mr. Camp's book.
MrDig
Member
I have a well documented penchant for the Hi-Power. Also have had to defend my preference for it over the CZ 75 but that is another story.
Here is my take, If buying the Hi-Power won't break the bank, read you can afford it, get one. If cost is a concern have the trigger redone on the CZ.
If Money were no issue I would own multiple handguns. I might even lower my standards and buy a CZ That's a joke son CZ's are fine firearms and well worth the money.
It is true you will have to tinker with the trigger on the HP to make it, and you happy.
Here is my take, If buying the Hi-Power won't break the bank, read you can afford it, get one. If cost is a concern have the trigger redone on the CZ.
If Money were no issue I would own multiple handguns. I might even lower my standards and buy a CZ
That's a joke son CZ's are fine firearms and well worth the money.It is true you will have to tinker with the trigger on the HP to make it, and you happy.
[email protected]
Member
The CZ 75 also ships with WAY too heavy a mainspring, 22 pounds I think. Probably because former Com-Bloc primers can run a bit on the tough side. I spent about $9 or so on a Wolff 16# mainspring, and it improved the DA trigger significantly. Out of about 10K or so rounds, I've yet to have a misfire, so 16 pounds is plenty... I've heard of USPSA Production shooters going to 14# and lighter with 100% ignition. Just food for thought, Hi-Powers rule as well, but are a little pricey.
DanO
DanO
BHPshooter
Member
I'm going to disagree... sort of. I currently have 3 HPs, none of which have had any trigger work whatsoever. The heaviest trigger pull of the three guages at 6 lb 11 oz. (Note: this is with the mag disconnect removed. All of mine have the disconnect removed.) That one is also the newest. That's just light enough that I can shoot it without the trigger pull throwing off my shots.
My first HP, which has seen the most rounds, has a trigger that I would guess is at about 5.5 lb.
The HP in my group with the lightest trigger is one of the CDNN FNs that has about 500 rounds through it (and no disconnect). The pull on that one is at about 4.25 lb.
Yes, you can get a HP with a crappy trigger, but a few points:
1) In my experience, what makes the trigger suck so badly is the mag disconnect... get rid of it.
2) Usually things smooth out so much in the first 500 rounds that you may decide that you don't need a trigger job.
3) ANY gun can have a crappy trigger. 1911s are famous for their good triggers, but I've seen more than a handful that didn't start out that way.
No flames here!
Disclaimer: If I picked second place, it would be a tie between the CZ-75 and the 1911.
Wes
RNB65
Member
The obvious answer to this question is BOTH.
The CZ is a great gun for the money. But it takes a little work from a gunsmith to smooth out the trigger to make it truly a great gun.
The BHP is just a beautiful handgun with decades of history behind it. Everyone should own at least one BHP.
So keep the CZ, take it to a smith to get the trigger stoned, and save up for the BHP. You'll be glad you did!
The CZ is a great gun for the money. But it takes a little work from a gunsmith to smooth out the trigger to make it truly a great gun.
The BHP is just a beautiful handgun with decades of history behind it. Everyone should own at least one BHP.
So keep the CZ, take it to a smith to get the trigger stoned, and save up for the BHP. You'll be glad you did!
jaydubya
Member
When you win the lotto, buy a Hi Power and have a gunsmith install Cylinder & Slide's SFS kit. This does several things. First, you carry the pistol with its hammer down, not cocked. Second, the safety becomes a hammer control: push it down, as if to take the safety off, and the hammer snaps back into condition one, ready to fire. That's right, with the same thumb action that "cocked and locked" people use, you get what they get: a single action trigger from first shot to last. And finally, your pistol becomes one of the easiest to field strip. Simply cock the hammer with the hammer control/safety, then push/pull the slide release out, and ease the slide off forward. (You can get this last feature simply by replacing the slide release with C&S's extended slide release, $26 plus shipping last I looked) My "classic", which I purchased in 1967 and carried on two flying cruises to Vietnam, now has the SFS kit (and Crimson Trace laser grips) and it is just wonderful. It still has the magazine safety, but I had a gunsmith work on the trigger and feed ramp.
All this after leaving it in my sock drawer for thirty-five years. I now shoot it weekly.
Cordially, Jack
All this after leaving it in my sock drawer for thirty-five years. I now shoot it weekly.
Cordially, Jack
Hawk
Member
One of my BHPs has a load of C&S parts but not the SFS thing - that just didn't appeal to me.
I didn't know it was that easy to fix the trigger on a CZ-75 as is indicated above. That being the case - you already own one so what the hey. Go with it.
The trigger, when I rented a CZ-75, is the reason I own BHPs. If it can be fixed, "run the one you brung".
I didn't know it was that easy to fix the trigger on a CZ-75 as is indicated above. That being the case - you already own one so what the hey. Go with it.
The trigger, when I rented a CZ-75, is the reason I own BHPs. If it can be fixed, "run the one you brung".
sarge48
Member
I love my CZ-85 Combat. I had Evolution Gun Works convert it to SA only. I did not enjoy riding the hammer down on a live round. Great guns...
P. Plainsman
Member
Just making sure -- Have you fired a stock BHP? They bite my hand. CZ never does.
Otherwise, the BHP is a fine pistol, but it's usu. more expensive than the CZ to begin with and then (if you're like me) you have to have it worked on ($$$) just to end the slide bite. I will probably still buy one someday, but I know I'm likely to have it worked on and customized.
My CZ 75B is at about 2500 rounds. The SA trigger has some creep but has improved with use. It's not too heavy; quite workable. The DA trigger, oddly (because I rarely shoot the gun DA) has gotten smooth and quite good.
Otherwise, the BHP is a fine pistol, but it's usu. more expensive than the CZ to begin with and then (if you're like me) you have to have it worked on ($$$) just to end the slide bite. I will probably still buy one someday, but I know I'm likely to have it worked on and customized.
My CZ 75B is at about 2500 rounds. The SA trigger has some creep but has improved with use. It's not too heavy; quite workable. The DA trigger, oddly (because I rarely shoot the gun DA) has gotten smooth and quite good.
How many rounds do you have out of your CZ? My trigger started very rough when I got it. After a bunch of range time and a bunch of dry firing it has gotten very smooth. Even in DA. Some think it is a long pull in DA, I guess it depends on your hand. It fits me just fine. SA is better than my 1911.
Long story short, before I'd even spend money on a trigger job I'd just shoot the fool out of it. You might be suprised at the quality of the trigger pull you end up with.
Long story short, before I'd even spend money on a trigger job I'd just shoot the fool out of it. You might be suprised at the quality of the trigger pull you end up with.
valor1
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2004
- Messages
- 416
I'm more modern. Let the classic guns belong to our grandpas. Ahem. I like the Cz75B for its ergonomics and great shootability. Finish is just fine. If it deteriorates, I'll have my gunsmith do a re-plating. That's it. Keywords are ergonomics and shootability. Price? Not much difference though.
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