How i Judge right fire power for pocket carry, the pit bull dog rule.

[tackstrp]

For some years i have considered biggist reason to carry a pocket gun is for dog attacks. Yesterday my 65 year old female, frail neighbor was walking her dog and thje dog was attacked by a local Pit Bull that is allowed to run free when owners are in front yard.

I prefer a 357 but consider a 38 specail adequate at a range of two feet or so. Also have to consider surrounding homes. .

Any suggestions for a 38 special round for dog would be appreciated?
Thanks,

 

[Buck Snort]

Any of the better known hollow points should do the job just fine.

 

[labhound]

This is exactly the reason I bought my first handgun. Had trouble with my neighbors pit bulls getting loose and I didn't want to run into them while walking my dog with nothing to protect her and probably myself with if a dog fight broke out. Carrying my shotgun was just a little bit out of the question. I bought a 9mm, followed by a .22, a .38, then a .380 and on and on. I load them with FMJ's. The dogs have since been picked up by the local animal control officer but the guns remain on every dog walk.

 

[ChCx2744]

When I was on the force, one of my supervisors shot a large, 3-year-old, 65lb pit with a Beretta 92G chambered in 9mm. Ammo was Winchester Ranger T-Series 9mm +P 127gr JHP. He shot it once in the face; it went through the mouth, traveled between the skin and flesh in the neck and finally hit the spine where it blew a small chunk of meat, little pieces of doggy bone and metal shards all over the side of my cruiser's rear passenger wheel. I think the bullet itself separated from the jacket and the pieces of the jacket flew everywhere. I was gonna shoot at first, but for some reason I froze...Good thing it charged him and not me.

A very surreal feeling when a gunshot goes off next to you and you don't have any ears on...Didn't even hear the shot and my ears didn't ring...Honestly didn't know a gun even went off until he keyed up and told radio that he shot a homeowner's dog.

Sorry about that, this thread just reminded me of that incident...Back to the topic at hand:
Any loading that you feel comfortable carrying for those 2 legged goons and goblins...Well...I am pretty sure they should work fine for pit bulls...That is only from personal experience.

 

[Lincoln4]

Several years back, two deputies that work outside the city I work in had two pitbulls come after them. The dogs were tied together by a chain. The first deputy shot the one with his 12 gauge, 00 buck. Dead pitbull. The other deputy smacked the 2nd pit with one .45 round to the head. That one turned and took off, dragging the dead pit by the chain! Wish we could still pack a 12 gauge.

 

[GojuBrian]

While walking my two Great Danes yesterday we were confronted by an aggressive Lhaso Apso apparently named Gizmo. My dogs just stood there perplexed.

 

[hemiram]

My dog was threatened by a 4.7 (I saw the scale) pound something that was hidden under a ton of hair yesterday at the vet. He was snarling and putting on a big show, but it didn't impress King much at all, and he just walked over and barked once at "Omar", who folded like a wet noodle. The other dog with Omar, who was a huge 5.7 pounds, came over and was very nice, and King ended up wanting to play with him. At least he didn't do what he did to the last dog with "little man syndrome". That one he grabbed with his front legs and pinned him to the floor while the little guy snarled and struggled. King had a look of total joy on his face. The owner of the other dog wasn't so happy.

 

[CDW4ME]

Pocket power

KHAR PM40 with 180 gr. JHP.

 

[Katana8869]

To answer the OP's question, when I am carrying a sidearm for defense against animals (Ie: back-up gun while hunting, trail gun while hiking ect.) I prefer a heavy bullet. I'm assuming that the OP will be carrying a snub-nosed revolver so in this case, I would probably opt for a 158gr hard cast LSWC to increase the rounds potential penetration.

Realistically though, against a dog at close range about anything would work as long as the shot was placed properly. About 5 years ago I had to shoot a large mixed breed dog that charged my then 2y/o daughter. 1 hit from my Glock 27 loaded with Cor-Bon 135gr jhps to the chest area from about 5 yards provided an instant stop.

I've been in a few dust ups, but that was probably the scariest moment of my life.

 

[Warhawk83]

While walking my two Great Danes yesterday we were confronted by an aggressive Lhaso Apso apparently named Gizmo. My dogs just stood there perplexed.

Danes always look perplexed,mine was named Duke.
The big dude wanted to lay in my lap, all 140 pounds of him when he was only 18 months.

 

[rodregier]

Reminds me a surreal moment when walking to high school many years ago. Passed by a neighborhood Great Dane sitting in his yard with a (food?) can sitting in his mouth - round end on. He seemed happy, so I just moved on.

The can was probably just under 3 inches in diameter.

 

[heron]

How about pepper spray? You don't have to shoot everything just because you can, and that would give you a broader continuum of options to escalate force.

 

[jonmerritt]

.22lr from a 6 inch revolver will drop a full grown pitbull. 1 shot centered between the eyes as he was growling and coming twords me with his head down low. He didn't yelp or jump, he just dropped to the ground in mid stride. I have used .38 spcl hp, .357 hp (both snubbies), 9mm p85 ruger fmj (took 3 shots, actually I squeezed off 3 shots befor it hit the ground) and a .380 bersa ( the bersa .380 stopped a pitbull with 1 chest shot, fmj too) ATR 100 .270 at about 400 yrds across the corn field out back. Used the 12 gauge with 00 buck shot on a "I don't what it was" but it was a BIG dog. Our biggest problem out here has been peoples pit bulls and they are mean! worse when there in a pack.
The pit I got with a .22 revolver was friendly when it was in it's own yard or on it's leash. The day it screwed with the wrong person, it came up behind me, I heard a shuffle in the grass. I turned around and there he was. I thought he just got loose and came by to mooch a munchie (me). The pit instantly put his head down and growled while walking straight twords me. Pulled my cheap little Heritage .22 revolver out, cocked it, (single action) (it was in a holster on my belt) Aimed, squeezed. "CLICK" Well, I discovered that the safety does work (flip up hammer block) at about the same time I filled my underwear. Flipped the safety off, pit was about 5 foot away, and "POP" ( they are loud when you don't expect it) The pit fell to the groud in mid step, just as if it was just shut off all at once. It's legs just seemed to fold up underneath of him (female pit I found out later)

 

[jonmerritt]

Pepper spray does not always work with overly aggressive animals. Killing it also keeps it from trying to chew on somebody else or there kids. If it wasn't so aggressive, then I wouldn't have to put it down. I don't put an animal down just because he barks at me. But over the last 15 years we have had major dog problems in my area. Not so since the mean ones have been put down.

 

[W.E.G.]

158-grain semi-wadcutter hollow-point usually shoots to point of aim better than anything else.

I don't think there is a dog out there that can take one of those in the vitals and not be immediately game-over.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

How about pepper spray? You don't have to shoot everything just because you can, and that would give you a broader continuum of options to escalate force.

If any dog ever attacks me, it will be unprovoked. I'll kill the animal given half a chance, and be doing a community service by permanently removing a serious threat to the safety of others. The next time the victim might not be armed.

I have zero tolerance for aggressive animals left uncontrolled.

KR

 

[Buck Snort]

Well, how about that. We've had sixteen posts on this topic and NOBODY has jumped in to declare that pit bulls are NOT aggresive dogs, its just how they are raised!! Hogwash.

 

[Nushif]

On the note of killing dogs ... I consider my dogs (even the little battle-hamsters) an extension of the family. Killing one of them would bring up my ire quite a bit. So much that I'm not sure what would happen if someone did kill one. If it was in cold blood, there would not be shots fired unless he fired them first, of course, but there sure as hell would be some broken bones. Either because I did it or because he was faster on me.

That being said as much as mine are battle-hamsters, they're utterly harmless. If another dog roughs 'em up for stepping up to the plate that's how they learn. A lot of owners don't seem to realize this.

And let me be the first to say that *any* dog breed's behavior is largely (well over 90%) based on how they're raised and trained.

 

[tackstrp]

had a pit named Tim . killed evey dog in neigborhood . about 1945 or 46. My dad gave to farmer and killed his chickens. sure Tim got shot

 

[Roccobro]

How about pepper spray? You don't have to shoot everything just because you can, and that would give you a broader continuum of options to escalate force.

I had 2 of my 80# dogs fighting and my dept issue OC didn't faze them one bit.

Glad all the blood was from them and not mine or my family's appendages. Sure I'll trust pepper spray to stop animal attacks.

Justin

 

[brl150]

I think some dog owners need to take classes about dog behavior and dogs just like gun owners need to take classes. There certainly are some dumb people who own dogs in my neighborhood. I have 2 dogs and 1 is a 70lb pitbull. Although, professionally trained by the GA State police K9 training facility, I will never set him up to fail. Both dogs are always on leash...never, will I just let him off for a minute..."there is no-one around"...etc., etc. Responsible dog ownership!! That being said, I have to carry a gun when I walk my dogs because we were attacked twice by dogs whose owners just open their door and let their dog run loose because they think their dog can't possibly do anything wrong.

Being well verse in dog training & dog behavior, I tell an owner...get your dog, he's about to attack my dog..."what? my dog is nice he wont do anything". Bam! on top of my dog in a second. I kicked the dog in the side and yelled at the owner to get his dog. The owner stood in amazement that his dog just attacked a pitbull.

Most people don't know how to read a dog's body language. Or, know what one little thing might set your dog off. All dogs can be aggressive and bite. If you can't read your dog (or control it 100% of the time)...then keep it on a leash.

Sorry...off on a tangent. But, I take my dogs as seriously as I do my guns and I hate to see irresponsibility in my neighborhood almost weekly. Okay, I agree with the comment of heavy for caliber with a blunt nose. For a .38 Special (what I carry in my neighborhood), 158 grain lead hard cast.

 

[Hoxviii]

^^ as above, heavy for caliber flat nose, WC or SWC moreso that LFN.

But also to note, dogs are susceptible to most direct physical attacks. Prior to being able to carry, I always used a "walking stick". it was a piece of 3/4" black iron pipe cut to length with a foot and a leather grip and strap on it.

Never have I had to use a firearm against an aggressive dog, but one clean swing with that rolled about a 85lb german sheppard flat on it's side. Didn't kill it, but it sure as hell wasn't in any condition to continue the fight.

 

[M60]

There sure is a lot of Pitbull hate (and ignorance) in this thread. I almost shot a German Shepard that was running loose in the neighborhood the other night while walking my Pitbull because he started to attack my dog. The GS ended up backing off when I blinded him with the high setting of my Fenix TK-40 flashlight. He didn't like that much at all.

-Mark.

 

[boya]

a 147 gr JSP out of a snub .357 should do the job.
but I have a stun gun, 50,000 volt, it hold 4 9 volt
batteries.it really arcs a big flash , my son and I tested it on each other, hes 24 so no child abuse
I have 2 labs but their to sweet to zap them,
so from my own 2 second zap which knocked me to the floor and gave me the worst charley horse
I ever had. just a point , stun guns DO work and
killing dumb dogs because of dumber owner, well
that seems wrong.

 

[SMMAssociates]

boya:

I probably should have used a stun gun on my daughter more often .... She's 24 now.... She also gave us our vicious attack dog - a Jack Russell Terrier. When Sammy was about 6#, I had him at the vet. On the way out, there were a couple of dogs big enough to saddle in the waiting area. Guess what little bitty mutt walked up to them and started barking.... He thinks he's a 200# Rott, and I'm afraid to tell him.... Sammy's about 24 pounds now (5 and a half) and hasn't slowed down too much. Drives me nuts, and he's the reason I carry a cane. Sammy lost his "doggie door priveleges" last summer because he was going outside and barking at everything. The neighbors got a little too upset. So, somebody has to let him out. Back last August, I had to take him out very early in the AM and missed a step. Broke a couple of toes, and being a tad overweight, still need the cane. We moved - no more stairs unless you count the route down to my new office, but I still have to find my cane to let him out....

About the Pits.... I'm also a believer in proper "confinement" - leashes, fences, etc., and the idea that the dog's training is far more critical than it's breed. The problem with the Pit and some other breeds is that their jaws are very seriously strong. Even little Sammy could do a lot of damage if he wanted to. Just having a Pit in the neighborhood, for example, wouldn't bother me at all. The dog not being "under control" would....

(Shooting a dog, these days, is going to get you into a lot of trouble, too, unless you're already bleeding.... Some people don't realize that about 120 years ago there were guns and ammunition sold specifically to help bicyclists and walkers protect themselves from loose dogs....)

A stun gun, in this instance, bothers me, too, because of the need for contact. Do you really want the dog that close if you muck up the "shot"?

About fifteen years ago, while visiting a family member across town, I had to park a half-block or so away. (Not unusual - big house, small driveway.) As I walked towards his house, a HUGE dog started running straight for me. Dunno the breed, but at about 250# at the time, I think I would have made a small snack. I put my hand on the PPK/S (wished that it was something bigger), but before I managed to draw, I saw the "hidden fence" sign.... I really don't trust those fences, but it worked....

(Sammy has $1500 worth of chain-link fence defining his play area. The Township has a leash law, and they do tend to enforce it, but a fenced in area is an acceptable alternative. There's another JRT up the block - I'm surprised the neighbors haven't picketed us for bringing in another one .)

Same as any other BG.... If the dog is attacking, STOP it.... It's easier to explain a dead dog than a dead kid.... Or, to quote the bomb squad T-shirt: "If you see me running, try to catch up."

Regards,