How i Judge right fire power for pocket carry, the pit bull dog rule.

[denfoote]

The only encounter I've ever had with a pit was a brute named Max. Now Max's owner told me how aggressive the dog was, how he would bite anything that moved, blah blah blah!! Well max got out one day and, boy was he aggressive!! He came bounding toward me, tail going about a gazillion hertz, and almost knocked me down trying to get me to scratch his ears!!

 

[IdahoLT1]

How about pepper spray? You don't have to shoot everything just because you can, and that would give you a broader continuum of options to escalate force.

I disagree. Im a lover of all pets but I value a humans life/well being far higher than that of a dog. If its down to a dog getting shot or a innocent human being injured, I'll instantly favor the humans side.

My buddy got charged by a loose 50-60lb pitbull not 3 weeks ago. He was in the street and the dog was a foot away snarling/growling, barring its teeth with its hair on end. He gave it a few seconds to calm down before he threw a right hook. The pitbull hit the ground, layed there a split second, got up, ran into his owners open garage and continued to bark from there. He's lucky he's big/strong enough to do that.

The cops were called down by a neighbor who was chased into her home by the same dog just before my friend encountered it. The best the police could do is have him file a "dog at large" complaint and the owners issued a ticket. They said they couldnt take it because the dog didnt make contact or bite any one.

Im sorry but that dog had shown aggressive tendencies and would be better to be put down. The thing that would worry me the most is that same dog getting out and attacking a little kid or a person who because of size, age or physical limitations couldnt defend themselves.

 

[IdahoLT1]

As far as the OP's question, if youre in city limits or in an area where people may be, I think its wise to use hollow point bullets. An off duty Meridian cop here shot a Healer(blue maybe?) that was acting agressive and charged him while he was walking in the neighborhood. He backed up trying to get away and he shot it twice with a .32ACP using hollow points. 1 round hit the leg and the other hit the shoulder/torso. The dog was dead after running 20ft.

A lot of cities/communities have leash laws for a reason. Its there to protect both the citizens and the dog. Had the dog been leashed and not allowed to run around the neighborhood, it would not have happened.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

A dog is territorial by nature. If an owner lets a dog run loose the chances are the dog will widen and expand it's territory. Territory regarded by dominant dogs pose a problem.
Yes I have had to shoot dogs before. It is never pleasant.

 

[SMMAssociates]

We just moved into a house where the back yard is "fronted" by a long stretch of Park jogging and bike trail. Sammy thinks it's his....

Now that the foliage has turned green and filled out, it's less of a noise problem, and he's only barking at the squirrels and chipmunks....

But +1 on the territorial thing. Sammy's always been that way. Our last dog, a Cocker Spaniel, came to us at about age three, and was at least 18 months older before she started anything like that. The first one only started getting yappy if somebody came inside....

(We were spoiled by the first one. He was also about three, and almost painfully well behaved. The folks we got him from had one too many kids. When we picked him up, there were some very sad little ones there, but the alternative was the pound.... The cocker didn't quite know the difference between grass and carpeting. The folks we got her from lied, and then wouldn't take her back. It was easier to spot carpets than think about the pound for her....)

Anyway, leashes or fences.... And, for the possibly more dangerous breeds, fences for sure.... We had Sammy tied down with a leather leash during Halloween one year, and he promptly ate right through it.... I don't think he could kill a steel chain, but....

(Never should have let him put a phone in his room....)

Regards,

 

[KarenTOC]

This leads to the question: What caliber for a 5-lb Maltese?

Mine is cute as a button; looks like a cuddly stuffed animal. She gets all excited when strangers approach. Her body language says "goody goody goody more humans to ooh and aww over me and give me lots of hugs and kisses." But about 50% of the time, and in 10 years I haven't figured out how to predict which times, she'll get within a few feet of them and suddenly morph into a snarling, growling, barking evil elf-monster straining to attack.

Considering that her mouth is so small she would probably choke on a 2-year old's big toe, and she's missing half her teeth, she's not likely to do any real damage to anybody. But that's not the point. Nobody should have to deal with an angry dog. As a result, she's NEVER off leash, and I NEVER let her approach anybody. If people ask if they can pet her, I always say no. Usually when folks approach us I pick her up so she can't "attack." I do this even if she isn't in monster mode, just in case she changes her mind.

(My main fear is that one day she'll "attack" a great dane or german shepherd, and it will defend itself. One nip from a dog of any size and my dog will probably be DRT. And I certainly couldn't blame the other dog or its owner.)

I think a .38 or 9mm would be sufficient to stop her. Just pull it out of your pocket and throw it at her.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Karen:

One of my fears with Sammy.... He's 23 pounds of "let's play until we both pass out" most of the time, but doesn't know to avoid biting people as part of the play. If you're an adult, and aware, it's no problem, 'cause he's not nasty (or quick) about it, but I worry about little bitty ones doing "cute doggie" stuff.... (My six great nieces & nephews, for example - the oldest is five.) Or the little granddaughter next door who might put her fingers through the fence....

Puppies grab each other by the face and extremities, and he never really grew out of it.

I don't think he'd attack a larger dog, but he will bark at em, and take defensive postures. I swear that Monty (the big shepherd I think I mentioned earlier) thinks it's funny, but.... (Monty's a bit smarter than a rock.)

Regards,

 

[brl150]

A good place to read up on "real and no-nonsense" dog training...from basic obedience to hard core training is: http://leerburg.com/. Read the articles and questions that people send in. He is the one that referred me to the trainer at the GA State Police K9 training center, a fair and patient training center that trains balance into your dog. Read the part about being the "leader" with your dog and understanding the language of dog.

Sorry...just realized that maybe should have been posted somewhere else, but relevant to here.

Thank you!

 

[RyanM]

For a .38 snubnose, I'd suggest the Speer 135 grain short barrel Gold Dots. Power per shot is only part of the equation, and multiple "small" hits are likely to be more effective than one "big" one.

But the "pit bull rule" is why my pocket carry piece is a .40 S&W.

 

[ChCx2744]

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter if its a Pit, Rottie, Dobie, German Shepard, etc...Any larger-sized dog that is angry and charging at you is a threat. (regardless of why; it's a freaking angry charging dog!) I no longer see them as some other owner's pet, I see a direct threat to my life. Can dogs kill people? Have dogs killed people? If a dog is trying to kill me, can I kill it?

Hopefully I never have to find out again, but I've got 10+1 little friends that would love to play when "man's best friend" decides to go ape $%&# on me or those around me.

Sorry, Rover, but just because your owner beat you as a pup doesn't mean I'm gonna let you chew on my Carotid.

 

[DFW1911]

I saw some guy walking two sizable Pits (on leash) the other day. It was the kind of walk a guy takes to show everyone he has tough dogs. It was not for the exercise, just a guess based on the .40 ounce beer he was drinking. They were in the center lane of a 4 (plus turn lane) busy street.

One of the dogs was trying with every single ounce of power it had to get at some guys building a fence. The dogs' owner was a pretty big guy and was really straining to hold his ground (and his beer); if the other Pit had decided its brother in getting to the crew this could have been very ugly...and not for the workers.

They clearly saw this dog - or dogs - wanted them for lunch. So all five of them picked up tools they had and formed a battle line. These dudes were not going down without a significant scuffle. Can you imagine the damage a Mattock Pick Axe could do to a dog? And they had two of them (picks).

Oh, I was in my truck and had my 9mm on my hip, so I could have been able to lend a hand as needed.

 

[tackstrp]

lol pick ax . yep. would do the job.. IMO danger from ilresponsible dog owners and dogs is greater than the two legged varmints.

I had a boston terrier that like to bite, especially inside the house with strngers. Even with his small size I carried a Millon dollar umbrella insurance policy. Neve had to file a claim, thank goodness.

If bite insurance was required by the law, sure dog population would decline.

 

[SMMAssociates]

If bite insurance was required by the law, sure dog population would decline.

tackstrp:

Dunno....

Here in OH we're

A) Required to certify that we have insurance when renewing our license plates (but they don't ask for proof).

B) Required to provide proof of insurance if stopped or in an accident, which can cost you dearly.

C) Required to carry "Uninsured Motorist" insurance coverage, just in case the other guy ignored A & B....

While insurance is fairly easy to get (but can be insanely expensive if your record is poor, or you're too young, etc.), it's so hard (and expensive) to get your license back that the other guy tends to be uninsured, and often unlicensed.

The State refuses to require proof of insurance during license (and registration) renewals, but does send random letters out that require you to find a copy of something and send it back. This is so incredibly wrong (and useless) that one must assume somebody's brother-in-law is handling it. (It is outsourced....)

I expect that dog insurance would go the same route....

(The problem with certification when dealing with the BMV to renew a license or registration is that you might be able to prove it "now", there's no way to keep you from cancelling it "tomorrow", and they refuse to work with the insurance companies on notification from them. Meantime, policies are turned on and off semi-randomly for non-payment, etc.)

Crazy, ain't it?

Regards,

 

[goon]

On the note of killing dogs ... I consider my dogs (even the little battle-hamsters) an extension of the family. Killing one of them would bring up my ire quite a bit. So much that I'm not sure what would happen if someone did kill one. If it was in cold blood, there would not be shots fired unless he fired them first, of course, but there sure as hell would be some broken bones. Either because I did it or because he was faster on me.

I understand this point of view, but are you the kind of owner who would let his dogs run free to terrorize a neighborhood?
If you are, the problem is yours. If you're not, you'd have nothing to worry about from me.

I had neighbors move out once and leave two dogs behind to starve. One was a large half wolf/ half husky and the other was some kind of mix that went maybe sixty pounds. Used to think it was a Ciao mix, but it was too large for that. The larger dog was friendly and loveable and my dad just took him and kept him for several years as an outside dog until he had to be put down. Couldn't really afford another dog but he's an animal lover and also couldn't stomach the idea of watching a dog starve to death.
After years of abuse by white trash owners, the other dog wasn't friendly enough to do anything with. It got loose and began roaming the town. It chased neighborhood kids and my neighbor's mentally retarded son. Calls to animal control went unheeded. The authorities didn't give a damn - it wasn't in their back yard or threatening their kids. So we had an aggressive, hungry dog roaming around chansing people. My dad and I decided to shoot it if we got the chance. AFAIK, this would be illegal as hell, but it would still be preferable to finding the mutiliated body of a neighbor's kid on the lawn.
Fortunately, driving home late one night from work, a guy I know who'd had the same realization I did was presented with the opportunity to just run the damn thing down with his truck.

Point being though, the owner is a larger part of the problem than the dog is. Even a mean junkyard dog won't harm anyone if it's kept tied.
So don't be a problem owner and you'll have no issues.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

I've never shot a dog, but I have stopped more than one full on attack with a Surefire torch while drawing the 1911.
It worked 100% of the time, instantly. They went from running in, ready to chomp, to confused in 0 seconds flat.

I think it may have something to do with the sensation of suddenly only seeing a blindingly bright, floating white orb where people used to be.

Anyway, I guess it wouldn't work if you jog during the day, but that's how I've dealt with them.

 

[ChCx2744]

goon said:

the owner is a larger part of the problem than the dog is.
So don't be a problem owner and you'll have no issues.

+1. Basically sums it up. I personally like dogs and most of the little rascals I've encountered just love to lick and try to climb you...But I never really cared to own one since I was younger...Don't really need the companionship or dent in my wallet.

Roughly 1 in 50 Americans are at risk of being bitten by a dog annually. There were around 30 dog-bite related fatalities in 2009...The CDC claims that number has been rising higher every year for the past 15 years.
(Source: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/)

Those odds aren't exactly broad...Especially the area where I live...Many dog owners and dog walkers 'round these parts, and they don't all own lil ankle biters.

 

[loose cannon]

ie taken up walking for physical fitness my companion can be a .357 with 6 140jhps or a g19 9mm with 15 115jhp +ps.

large aggresive dogs are 1 of the reasons i dont carry a keltec p32

 

[DammitBoy]

I too have a Jack Russel Terrorist who seems unaware that he is only 17lbs and not king of the world. At home, he never goes outside without a leash. Mostly because of the squirrel and deer population.

When I take Roscoe to the family farm, he immediately chases three giant pitbulls, a black lab, an australian shepard, and a doberman until his lungs give out. He also growls and snarls at them when they come near any food left out for the dogs. I have no idea why they don't eat him as he'd only be a light snack. I almost feel sorry for the big malooks.

Roscoe never met a person he didn't like though and if I was ever burlgarized, I'm sure my little monster would bother the thieves the whole time hoping to be petted and scratched.

If the crooks were scared, I'm sure a .22 short would put him down.

 

[SMMAssociates]

DammitBoy:

I think that's a general characteristic of the breed. They just don't realize that they're pint-sized....

Sammy likely would help, too.... He's got a hard head, though.... We have lots of squirrels, and a few deer, but his "run" is about 50x100 worth of chain link fence. The deer can't get in .... (The squirrels can....)

Not a breed I would have picked, but I couldn't return him.... (I think I mentioned that our daughter turned up on our doorstep with him one Sunday morning, and then headed back to Columbus....)

Regards,

 

[Browns Fan]

Quote:
"Point being though, the owner is a larger part of the problem than the dog is. Even a mean junkyard dog won't harm anyone if it's kept tied.
So don't be a problem owner and you'll have no issues. "

Unfortunately, like it or not, far too many people own pitts/rotts that shouldnt, so if a large dog gets aggressive with me or mine, he will get shot.

Having said that, there is a guy in our neighborhood who has 2 rotts who appears well trained and walks them LEASHED regularly.

 

[Harley Rider 55]

Kentucky Rifleman - your actions would be a felony if the dog was a police K9 that confused you with the person he was looking for. I agree with you, but the courts do not.

 

[627PCFan]

Interesting point: My Wiem was charged and bitten by a German Shepherd 3 week ago. I called animal control to report it. The officer was nice and understanding. While he was taking a report he saw some goose decoys I had laying around, realized I was a hunter and asked if I carried. I said not yet, and he warned me, its only a good shoot if a person is being attacked, implying that the other dog on my dog does not qualify in VA. According to state law, Ill have to step into the fight in order to legally put the dog down.

 

[DammitBoy]

SMMAssociates - I rescued Roscoe from a guy who was going to shoot him for trespassing (I hate people like that). Never meant to keep him, but he's an awesome dog and a great buddy, he keeps me laughing all day long. The deer and the squirrels wish I hadn't kept him either.

If another larger dog tried to attack him I would have no problem ending that confrontation. I carry my Ruger SP101 for just such a situation.

 

[SMMAssociates]

DammitBoy:

Great rescue, but sometimes you're going to regret that .... My daughter's boyfriend has four dogs (2 shepherds, one border collie, and one "who knows"). He's a pushover .... Sammy was bred for sale, though, but we're not sure there isn't some Pit in his background. Or possibly a minefield....

Buddy of mine acquired a JRT as a "barn dog" some years ago, but had to bring him inside as he got too old for that gig. Great inside dog if you can stand perpetual motion.... Sammy's pretty much the same....

Regards,

 

[DammitBoy]

Off -topic for sure now, but Roscoe is a very quiet inside dog, unless you get him started, then it's on like donkey kong.

Mostly he just wants to sleep, cuddle, and get petted - like a frikken cat.

Outside he is a typical JRT, wide open and sideways, full of piss and vinegar. Four walks a day will wear you out. The little pervert makes sure our long walks take him by several lady dachsunds in the area...

Hopefully, I won't have to shoot any dachsunds if they find out about the others.