I Still Have My Guns

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Oh, I agree. The only chance of getting originalists of any stripe was from a Republican Pres.

I just hope their apparent political leanings are outweighed by their legal convictions.

I want laws overturned, court cases decided to maximize individual liberty and to reempower the people to make political decisions at the lowest level, not Federalize everything.
 
IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR GUNS

Pertaining to our lifetimes, (I'm 54) if you look back to Franklin D. Roosevelt, we have had an equal number of Democratic Presidents (6) and Republican Presidents (6).

I still have my guns.

I am bringing into question the generally held belief that you must support Republican presidential candidates if you want to protect our RTKBA rights.

Since Jan of 1951 the year you were born there have been 5 Democrats and 6Republician Presidents. The Democrats were in office for 22 years and the Republicans for 32. So your original premises that was some equiality to the time spent under both parties is incorrect.

Further more, most of the gun grabbing (Johnson 1968 and Clinton 1994) has been done during the shorter span (perhaps 41%) of the Democrats time in office.

So based on the data you provided, IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR GUNS electing Democrats is NOT the way to do it.

But I think you knew that when you first posted!


jdkelly
 
carebear said:
Oh, I agree. The only chance of getting originalists of any stripe was from a Republican Pres.

I just hope their apparent political leanings are outweighed by their legal convictions.

I want laws overturned, court cases decided to maximize individual liberty and to reempower the people to make political decisions at the lowest level, not Federalize everything.

Geez, what are you smoking?

With all respect, HOW IN THE #&!! do you expect the FedGOD to relinquish its power? That scenario is simply not in the playbook in 21st century Amerikan politics. The goal of each wing of the One Great Party is to garner some of the power of the other Wing Of The Party through popular elections (see: Democracy, the God that Failed) by painting the Other Wing Of The Party as the thief of the Big Bounty of The State. Relinquishing power, for its own sake, is akin to madness in their world view.

I thought everyone knew that, but if everyone did we wouldn't have these silly discussions of Republican vs. Democrat. As if it really makes a difference.

I am sure you do not want to hear my suggestions...:cool:
 
Wllm,

I'm fully aware of today's realpolitick. Expecting statists in power to voluntarily relinquish acquired powers is foolish. Having their attempts to acquire more shot down as unConstitutional by originalist judges is about the only non-violent way I see to buy time until the electorate can be awoken.
 
Justin said:
When it was completely and utterly pointed out to you that more Democrat presidents have supported gun control than Republican ones, your first move was to voice your support for such laws, thereby contradicting your initial statement, obliterating your very own argument.

By saying "such" laws, you are insinuating that I agree with ALL gun control laws. This is untrue and you know it.

I strongly suggest that you either learn how to debate and construct a rational argument that proves your initial thesis, change your thesis, or admit defeat.

Because you disagree with me? With all the name-calling and ignorant insults that have been hurled at me (troll, pig, fascist, communist, etc.) and accusations (villifying, demonizing, spreading fear, etc.) not ONCE have you admonished anyone else or told them to "learn how to debate".

Because at this point, you're just making yourself look silly.

Now you have joined in the mud-slinging.
You can call me "silly" if you want, but at least I have been courteous, respectful and polite throughout this debate, which is more than I can say for most.



When even the moderators are throwing rocks, you know your in hostile territory.
I would have expected more from the "High Road".
 
Boogyman, I'll note that you still haven't addressed my point, and have simply elected to continue splitting semantic hairs, which only speaks to the inherent weakness of your central argument.

And honestly, I feel no real initiative to lift a finger to help you out due to your insinuation that I'm a racist.

What goes around comes around.
 
Justin said:
Boogyman, I'll note that you still haven't addressed my point, and have simply elected to continue splitting semantic hairs, which only speaks to the inherent weakness of your central argument.

I'm splitting semantic hairs and you are not, aye?

And honestly, I see no real reason to lift a finger to help you out due to your insinuation that I'm a racist.

I already said I wasn't calling you a racist. I was pointing out your attempt to lump all Democrats into a group called "those kind of people".

What goes around comes around.

It's now obvious that I cannot expect any fairness from you. Anything further would be pointless, now that you have admitted your hostility.
Enjoy your mutual admiration club.

ALL HAIL KING JUSTIN!
 
I'm splitting semantic hairs and you are not, aye?

Pointing out the fatal flaws in your argument, you know, the ones where it's shown that far more Democrat presidents have supported and passed gun control legislation than Republicans is hardly splitting semantic hairs.

I already said I wasn't calling you a racist. I was pointing out your attempt to lump all Democrats into a group called "those kind of people".

That's bull, and you know it.

It's now obvious that I cannot expect any fairness from you. Anything further would be pointless, now that you have admitted your hostility.

I think I've been more than fair in putting up with you in this debate. Heck, I practically wrote up a "how to debate properly" essay to go along with it.

Enjoy your mutual admiration club.

If this place were half the mutual admiration club you claim it is, it would probably not have nearly the number of people volunteering their time as moderators. But if that's how you feel about it, I'll simply point out that there are literally hundreds of thousands of other forums out there. So since THR is not to your liking, feel free to go frequent one of those.

*waves*
 
ALL HAIL KING JUSTIN!

Oops. Missed this bit the first time around.

Just so everyone's clear, I'll be accepting offeratory gifts as a sign of my royalty. Would prefer custom 1911 pistols smithed to cycle bullseye wadcutter loads, Ultradot red dot scopes, a Morini CM 22M, ACOG TA011 scopes, JP Rifle-made AR 15 uppers, or a Dillon 550B reloading press with dies for .45 ACP, .223, and 9mm, as well as a Ruger 10/22 that's been tricked out for shooting Sportsman's Team Challenge events.

Oh, and anyone who fails to swear fealty to me on or before 2:30pm, January 21st will have their posting priveleges revoked.

attachment.php

Also, Boogyman, I don't think that your original "ALL HAIL KING JUSTIN!" shows up well enough. If you could, put it in a larger size, a different font*, and a more eye-catching color, it would go a long way towards earning you some grovel points.

*No Comic Sans, it offends the royal eye.
 
Phew! Now that that's pretty much over with, can we take up the issue of the Communist Party constantly being falsely portrayed as anti-free market? I'm getting pretty sick of hearing that. :D
 
hey now, king or no, dont' start hacking on comic sans...
 
Pertaining to our lifetimes, (I'm 54) if you look back to Franklin D. Roosevelt, we have had an equal number of Democratic Presidents (6) and Republican Presidents (6).

I still have my guns.
The past does not equal the future. It never has. It never will.
Socialism and liberty cannot coexist.
Exactly right, Swampsniper.

Boogyman, name me five national politicians (Governor, Senator or House member) who wear the tag of "Democrat" who are not dyed- in-the-wool socialists.

You can't do it.

In order to get to the national level, politicians in the Democrat party blindly adhere to the tenets of socialism - including citizen disarmament - or else they are cast aside, plain and simple.

I'm 48 and as Zell Miller (A Democrat) once said, "I remember back when Democrats were actually patriotic and defednded America." Not so with today's Democrats. Socialism is their holy grail. Loyalty to the Constitution is a career breaker in the Democratic party.

Zell Miller has become the most hated despised of Democrats among those Democrats at the national level - simply because he dared to "call a spade a spade."

Vote for whoever you want to - but don't expect Democrats to protect your gun rights. As someone once said, "The definition of insanity is is doing the same thing over and over and over again while expecting a different result."

The current crop of Democrats - more accurately referred to as Demosocialists - will shake your hand, smile to your face and stab you in the back when it comes to the Second Amendment.

Not that the Republican party is the paragon of defending the Bill of Rights these days -but the Republican party is not pathologically obsessed with citizen disarmament, as are Demosocialist politicians.

Therefore, the Republicans get my vote.
 
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Boogyman said:
When even the moderators are throwing rocks, you know your in hostile territory.
I would have expected more from the "High Road".


Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is doing so just because they are big old meanie doodyheads ... not because they have an honestly different viewpoint than mine.


This notion of "high road" only seems to apply to conservatives/libertarians/Republicans and NEVER to liberals/progressives/Democrats :rolleyes:
 
"It's now obvious that I cannot expect any fairness from you. Anything further would be pointless, now that you have admitted your hostility.
Enjoy your mutual admiration club."


Translation: I have lost the argument and need any excuse to run for cover.
 
Boogyman said:
Pertaining to our lifetimes, (I'm 54) if you look back to Franklin D. Roosevelt, we have had an equal number of Democratic Presidents (6) and Republican Presidents (6).

I still have my guns.
You still have your guns, you just have an exponentially higher number of laws to worry about regarding them. '86 ban? '89 ban? '94 ban? Ok, so that last one barely sunset, but the '86 and '89 bans are still in place, and they were in MY lifetime, and I'm in my early 30's.


22-rimfire said:
"No guns = No crime" Simple, right. Hitler had that idea.
This idea, often seen on t-shirts, is false. Hitler did not implement any gun control.
 
The Weimar government implemented gun control before Hitler became chancellor because the nazis, commies, criminal gangs and other groups were shooting it out with each other. The German politicians at the time were deathly afraid of communists, even Hitler distrusted and feared communists.

Which brings us to the 1968 GCA which is modeled on Weimar/Nazi era language. Which I do believe was passed and signed by Democrats. But nah, they really don't want to ban your guns... it's those evil republicans that want to empty out our gun safes! /sarcasm
 
Boogyman, you were called a pig, a fascist, and a communist? You're right, that demands a response. Please PM me. I'm on my way out the door right now, but I'll check in and read the thread through tonight.

Being called a troll is, I'm afraid, par for the course when you start a thread with a beginning like this one had. It would be more common to see that from a troll than from anyone else.

If this thread isn't generating more light and less heat (and by "heat" I mean insults and graphic depictions of cartoon urination) by the time I return, it's going bye-bye.)
 
Zundfolge said:
Translation: Anyone who disagrees with me is doing so just because they are big old meanie doodyheads ... not because they have an honestly different viewpoint than mine.
It is very difficult for humans to seperate "disagreement" from "disagreeableness." However, adding more of the latter never reduces the former.

We very naturally assume anyone who disagrees with ourself must not have all the facts or must be delberately wicked.

Of course, this is not so. Starting from the same (and always incomplete -- if any of us knew everything, he would be rather more than human) information, people often reach dramatically different conclusions. Very often, it doesn't matter, as long as we are willing to leave one another alone.

It is when we're not willing to let the other folks go be complete and utter idiots that difficulties arise -- like the Inquisition, or any of the World Wars. This is often awkward, and gets in the way of the usual sorts of work and commerce.

Zundfolge said:
This notion of "high road" only seems to apply to conservatives/libertarians/Republicans and NEVER to liberals/progressives/Democrats :rolleyes:
Hey, now, what's this sandwiching libertarians between conservatives and Republicans?

First off, libertarians come in for plenty of licks from the Right, who suspect (correctly) we are Not Their Sort. Libertarians are not at all interested in compelling Moral Goodness in others, as long as those others mind their own business. This makes them different to much of the Right and the Left.

Second of all, you'll make the conservatives and Republicans very uncomfortable by associating them with libertarians. That's hardly respectful of the feelings of others, now is it?

Third, the traditional American Left gets a hostile reception from many gun-owners because its adherents have so often been outspoken opponents to gun ownership and critical -- often unfairly critical* -- of gun owners. I know Hubert Humpphrey said the right stuff about gun rights, and probably would have walked the walk, too; but the Democrats haven't produced very many Hubert Humphreys in recent years.

It is a very rough sorting that puts all the American Right on the side of gun-owners and all the Left in the opposition; but it is more accurate than otherwise, most of the time, and that cannot be wished away.

--Herself
________________________
* For instance, in "Bowling for Colombine," Micheal Moore is at some pains to associate the NRA with the KKK, despite the two groups having been founded by officers from opposing sides during the Late Unpleasentness and despite the NRA's long-standing policies of nondiscrimination.
 
Herself said:
Hey, now, what's this sandwiching libertarians between conservatives and Republicans?

Because those three groups are all in the same boat in regard to the standard of following the high road is only applied to them, not the other groups listed.

You make the mistake of reading hidden meaning into what I posted.

That said, if I might paraphrase Milton Friedman; I consider myself a Republican with a large "R" and a libertarian with a small "l".

We very naturally assume anyone who disagrees with ourself must not have all the facts or must be delberately wicked.
More often than not, when one is a liberal, progressive and/or Democrat they are likely to honestly believe that the only reason you would support a conservative, libertarian and/or Republican position is because you're mean.

I suggest reading Thomas Sowell's The Vision of the Anointed for a much better explanation of my point.
 
hmm... searched for the words "pig", "communist" and "fascist" and don't find any instance where Mr. Boogyman was called any of them :scrutiny:

I'm sure such "attacks" where edited out by the vast right wing conspiracy.
 
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