I tried to buy locally.

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I would think that if a gun dealer is able to buy guns cheaper from a retail customer than he is through a wholesaler, there must be something wrong with his supply chain, or the way he is doing business.

One key, as I understand it, for a business to be successful is to buy low, and sell high, not the other way around.

You are certainly describing a most peculiar business model, but I am glad it works for him.
 
I think you misunderstood my post.

I, as a non-dealer, acquire guns over a period of years from various sources. Some are keepers, some I get just because the price is absurdly good.

Sometimes, when I find a gun at a dealer and the price is not so good, I get a better deal for myself by trading the "steal of a deal" guns I've built up in whole or in part for the one really nice gun the dealer has.

That way, the dealer gains by moving a high-end gun in exchange for others he can sell more easily for cash, and I gain by acquiring a nice gun in exchange for a group of guns I had acquired for peanuts.
 
I tell my wife I'm doing exactly that with all those guitars and farm tractors I buy. :)

Les
 
I have been in the firearms/sporting goods business for more than 30 years, made a very good living doing it and I learned one important thing and its one I recommend to any businessman "Pick your Customers as carefully as they should pick you" I had to compete against Wally world, Kmart, sportsman warehouse and several small shops. Well I was more than them on most things but I seemed to do Ok because the customer base I had wanted something better than a discount, they wanted service, and knowlagable information about what the were buying. they wanted a well lite store, ample parking space, a large selection of merchandise, which I had to carry even in the off season, all this costs money, my money.
I had several employees go together and open their own shop, they were going to undersell me and make their money with volume sales, within 2 years I bought them out for .30 cents on the dollar, they had sold a third more guns than me in that period of time and still couldn't make it. They didn't realize how many guns you have to sell to make the $1500 a month building lease, the $400 electric bill, the state and local taxes, B&O taxes, accountant fees, and wages. But they had some happy customers while they were open, made many friends, were well thought of, of course they were broke.
Their are a lot of reasons for a gun shop to go out of business but high prices is not one of them.

I see an opportunity out their for some of you to invest some of your money and buy a gun shop and undersell the competition, sounds like you will clean up make big money. Why everyone in town will buy from you, you can show those scum sucking gunshop owners how to do it. Of course you will still have some good customer come in and want a better deal because someone on the Internet has one cheaper, and after you hear that 400 times in a week see if you still have a good attitude.
 
I don't know about the post above me. If I can buy a gun $150 cheaper I don't care if have to park in the street and walk
inside in the dark to get it and it's the only gun in the store so long as it's the one I want.

I'm in business also. I am the owner, salesman, accountant, installer all rolled in one. I fully understand about "picking" the
customer as they "pick" you. The thing is I don't try to take advantage of people when selling a job install nor do I take
shortcuts, after getting the job, when installing. The situation that started this post originally was that he felt like he was
being taken advantage of from an exorbitant price mark up and transfer fee. All he has to do is take his business elsewhere.
As much as I hate the business practices of ***mart if a local business thinks that they can walk all over people in times like
these then they don't deserve our business. That's why a gunshop will go out of business. I know the shop that tried selling
me a gun at more than retail will never see my face again. Even right now when I need some ammo and ***mart is all out
and I know that shop has some in they still won't get my money. It's not just me too. A couple friends and family said
after shopping around that store seemed higher than it should be. They lost my sale for a gun and future ammo purchases.
My two cousins gun's, my cousin's friend, and my friend all bought elsewhere also after I told them what happened. My cousin
then told several other of his friends to just stay away from that shop. Keep in mind this all happened in a matter of a few weeks.
Total possible loss for that shop from that bad experience = 5 guns($2100) + ammo and supplies. I already have spent $150
in ammo/supplies this month. Then all the ammo/supplies lost from my cousins and friends also. It starts to add up quick. Again,
price matters a lot when it comes to whether a business stays around. Look at all the Mom and Pop stores that succumbed to
Walmart. I hope that if you're still in business or anybody still in business for that matter reads this and realizes what a dent
it makes in their wallet by not being so greedy with that "one" gun sale.
 
Impure, what I don't think you realize is, they obviously don't WANT those sales they "lost", if they would have to sell to you at your prices. Going into Neiman Marcus, demanding the Kmart price, and walking over to Kmart does not "lose" Neiman a sale which you will give to Kmart, as Neimann does not wish to sell at the Kmart price. It doesn't make them money or fit into their business model to sell at that price. Even assuming the same product.
 
Sort of. A business may not want to sell at X price, but depending on what price they do want to sell it at(amongst other factors), they may end up not selling it at any price.
The key is to be realistic about where you're willing to price at. It can be hard to stay in business by selling at X, but it's impossible to stay in business by not selling at all.


Actually, the key is to provide the best value, and realizing that value is more than just the price.
 
Koginam, that was one of the best posts on here yet. Thank you for that.

They didn't realize how many guns you have to sell to make the $1500 a month building lease, the $400 electric bill, the state and local taxes, B&O taxes, accountant fees, and wages.
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People don't understand the idea of margin at all. I think that's why so many small retail businesses go bust.
If your monthly overhead is $1,000 and you're selling on a 15% margin, you need to make $6667 in sales just to break even. If your margin is 20% it's only $5,000. But if it's 10% then you need to sell $10,000 worth of stuff.
So you can easily go broke underselling the competition. If he's getting 20% and you're only getting 10% you need to sell twice as much just to keep even. That gets tough month after month.

This year I have increased my margin on stuff and am trying to improve my product mix to higher margin items. So far no one seems to have objected. Today I sold a Bersa Thunder380 to a fellow. He had shopped around and my price was $20 higher than what he had seen. But I offered him a free range pass and 10% off his initial ammo purchase. Also if he had any troubles with the gun, bring it back to me and I will take care of the shipping back to the manufacturer.
He was happy and felt he got a good deal (which he did). I made good money on the gun and a loyal customer.
Sometimes it's not just price.
 
just sell on the internet too. That way you can get volume sells as well as your regular customer sales. Everyone wins.
 
Their (sic) are a lot of reasons for a gun shop to go out of business but high prices is not one of them.
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Here, let me fix it for you.
There are a lot of reasons for a gun shop to go out of business, and high prices is only one of them.
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It seems that there are people here who argue in absolutes. One point of view is that the dealer has the absolute right to charge whatever he wants, and anyone who refuses to do business with him is a low life. Another point of view is that a dealer who tries to make any profit at all is a low life.

What (nearly) everyone is overlooking is that there is a happy medium available. I don't begrudge someone making a living--it's when they try to make a killing that I refuse to participate.

I understand margins; I get it that the small gun shop will have to charge more than W-M or Cabela's. I buy from my local guys when they have something I want, and I'm fortunate that both of them are pretty good in both customer service and reasonable on price. I try to buy something every time I stop by, because as Tamara once said, I want them to associate the sight of my face with the sound of their cash register ringing up a sale. Last week I paid about a 25% premium on a box of Cor-Bon .45 LC ammo, just to buy something. If it were a 50% premium, maybe, maybe not. If it were a 100% premium, Hell no...but I've seen those asking prices. (BTW, this box of ammo had a nice coat of dust on it, so his profit margin is higher than I stated, but once again, I don't begrudge him that.)

Some places seem to view every customer as a sucker (or at least, that's what their pricing structure tells me). One visit is generally enough for me. When they go out of business, I probably won't even know about it, so I'll miss out on the fire sale prices. Such is life.

Bottom line--as in most things, there is balance. Find it and you will succeed. Miss it, and you will suck seed. :)
 
Duke, So are you saying that Neiman Marcus sells the same merchandise as Kmart? We arent talking about a $15 Cotton Jaclyn Smith
sweater and $200 Neiman Marcus Magaschoni Cashmere sweater. We are talking about same brand/model/color/ item arent we? We can not
"assume the same product" that Neiman Marcus sells is being sold in Kmart. Far from it. Neiman Marcus doesn't want to sell at Kmart
prices because they aren't selling the same merchandise. That $200 sweater probably cost them $150 from their distributor assuming
a 30% mark up. The $20 Kmart sweater probably cost Kmart $10. So back to guns and leaving clothing stores out of this.
They (gun store/pawn shop), both sell the same item and that's all there is to it.
Apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
 
Actually, the key is to provide the best value, and realizing that value is more than just the price.
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Bingo. The shops I buy from have a business plan and an attitude that displays this. The shops that I do not buy from are the ones that make no effort to add any value.

In some shops I buy from, their value-add is giving out good advice and providing attentive service; other times it's help with a warranty issue; sometimes, it's working hard to make a trade work out. But in all cases, the shops *know* their business plan and politely stick to it.

Back to the OP's gripe; the store in question offered to charge almost 15% more for a non-stock special ordered item than he could get elsewhere, and I have to ask - what do you suppose they presumed their value-add was in that transaction?
 
Impureclient
What you don't understand is that when wally world or k-mart buys a gun they don't pay the same price for it as your local store, they get deals on volume buys, on shipping costs, they get huge co-op advertising points, they can use guns as lost leaders to get you into the store and sell you something else. They often get first pick of inventory from a distributor because of the quantity they buy. I have had guns on order only to see sportsman warehouse getting a steady supply because the distributor takes care of his big customers first. The big stores don't carry the diversity of firearms products either, they also work on credit where they don't pay for 6 months or more, I and many other shops get to pay up front on most of our stuff or we get 30 to 90 days with a steeper interest rate.
I know I'm not going to change your view but there is a lot to take into consideration when running a business.
 
Koginam, I realized I was getting my panties in a knot also. You gave me a little more insight with your last post. I wasn't thinking about things such as quantity orders lowering the price
they get the items for. I feel for you as one of the small guys. That's why I will try to go out of my way to not put more coin into the W**mart bank account and go to the local grocery store
for food or Auto parts store for motor oil instead. Like I said I'm in business also and have to deal with companies with several crews to my 2 man operation. I don't like those bigger companies
using illegal immigrant labor and price undercutting me but I make up for it in the quality of the finished product which is always better.
 
I shop local whenever I can. I like the guy to know my name, and ask how that "insert new gun" is shooting. I expect to pay for that service and I am willing to do that. Trust is the biggest issue customers and owners need to overcome.

BUT make no mistake about it. The stereo type of the "old grouchy gun store owner" is very much alive and well. Sometimes I believe that is because they simply have refused to acknowledge that the internet exists. Information is easy to come by and their old wily trader ways are no longer effective and it pisses them off. They spent years honing their trading skills based on the preinternet market. I certainly dont blame them but times have changed and so must they. The smart owners got on board and simply expect the customers to better informed than they used to be. Information is cheap and people never like being treated like they are idiots,be that owner or customer.:D
 
I am never offended when I realize I'm in the wrong place. I don't shop at Gucci's or Tiffany's. I don't drive a Rolls although I'm sure they are fine cars. I'll try your store and if you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and walk away (when I'm the only customer) fine. I'll take my money elsewhere. Go ahead, charge $500 for a FFL transfer, and $600 for a LCP, someone may pay it, good luck, and goodbye.

What does it take for me to shop at a brick and mortar store? Well, I want to feel like I get good service. If you tell me an FFL transfer is $100, I know you don't care about me as a customer, just a $. Act like you're glad I came by. Realize I'll have to pay sales tax on top of your price. (not your fault, but it still comes out of my pocket). Be knowledgeable, don't try to tell me that a DPMS is better than a Colt just because you have one at the same price I can buy the Colt online.
My favorite gun shop is a mom and pop operation, with a small selection, but the owner is a blast to talk to. I always feel like I learn something when I've been there. And if I'm looking for a particular gun, he gets on the phone and sees if his distributer can get one.
In this economy, an additional gun is a luxury, I don't need one, but I want one. Whoever gives me the best overall service gets the business.
 
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What you don't understand is that when wally world or k-mart buys a gun they don't pay the same price for it as your local store, they get deals on volume buys, on shipping costs, they get huge co-op advertising points, they can use guns as lost leaders to get you into the store and sell you something else. They often get first pick of inventory from a distributor because of the quantity they buy. I have had guns on order only to see sportsman warehouse getting a steady supply because the distributor takes care of his big customers first. The big stores don't carry the diversity of firearms products either, they also work on credit where they don't pay for 6 months or more, I and many other shops get to pay up front on most of our stuff or we get 30 to 90 days with a steeper interest rate.
I know I'm not going to change your view but there is a lot to take into consideration when running a business.
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Sometimes it sucks to be the little guy, but I’m not going to buy a rifle a Joe Local’s if I can get the exact same rifle elsewhere for significantly less.

The reason I pay higher prices is for service and/or convenience. Sometimes the guys at the big box stores don’t know jack, but I’ve also seen times when a big box store offered more knowledgeable and more honest salespeople, better service, better convenience and better prices.

My wife and I have three girls we put through college. Now we’re saving for retirement – ours, not some yo-yo’s at a gun shop that thinks his run-of-the-mill stuff is extra special. Nor will I buy at a big box store that treat’s their customers like crap (Dick’s at Park Meadows Mall in Denver, for example). For years I refused to buy at the old Parker gun store because of the owner’s crappy attitude and high prices, choosing instead to drive 16 miles down the road to The Firing Line where I was always treated nicely, the salespeople were reasonably knowledgeable, and prices were more competitive (but still higher than the big box stores).

As I’ve stated before, dealers have a right to charge whatever they want. But the deal is it’s MY money they’re asking for and I have a right not to give it to them. If they want it, they will have to EARN it.
 
He had shopped around and my price was $20 higher than what he had seen. But I offered him a free range pass and 10% off his initial ammo purchase.
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Wow, all that just for $20 difference? I'd buy from you too...

I don't mind spending a little more locally, heck, I like it because the $$ stay local. But when the prices are way out of line I rebel.

Like a used traded-in target pistol for $350, when I can have the same, brand-new one shipped for $252... Just what am I getting for that extra money, in a used, no-warranty gun?
 
I don't mind spending locally as long as the price is not way out of line. The fact is I can ALWAYS find it cheaper on the internet. ALWAYS. If they have good service and a fair price then I'm all for going local.

Now often times availability is an issue if I want a older model gun. Then the internet is my only option.

I had two gunstores I like to go to that have a good selection, good prices and are friendly and fair. They were 30 min and 1 hour a way. They had my repeat business. They both do pretty well for themselves and they don't have to gouge on prices to do so.

Another place that sells guns was 10 minutes away and wanted FULL MSRP on everything and I never bought a gun from them.

That's great that you have to pay your bills and overhead costs. I'm sure that some of the large online gun sellers would love to tell you about shipping nightmares, 1000 phone calls a day and countless emails asking pointless questions that a storefront operation never has to deal with.

Bud's stated on this forum that they have had over 92,000 registered customers online in that last 5+ years. That's over 92,000 orders(assuming they only order one item and never oder again) that needed to be logged, packaged and shipped by SOMEONE that a storefront operation never had to deal with. If we are speaking about the "cost of doing business".
 
Even if you bought it on GunBroker and paid his outrageous Transfer Fee, you'd still save over $400 assuming you have an 8% sales tax.

I wouldn't have bought anything from him either.
 
I recently went into a local store. I really liked the guy. He quoted me $572 for a Ruger Sp101. I also contacted a local guy that would have to order the gun also. He quoted me $472. Both came with recommendations from other members on the High Road. If it would have been a $20 difference I would have been happy to talk to the local shop more. And I will go to him for other stuff. But $100 is still alot of money in this time at least for me. When I bought my Smith and Wesson 642. One store had it for $600.00 another location had it listed for $550 and he would cut me a break and sell it to me for $500. I went to Gander Mountain. I got one of there Credit cards earned me a 5% discount plus money back from Smith. Plus the gun was listed for $439. I do want to support the local shop. But walking out with a smith for less than 400 bucks. Plus they provide the service for the gun and honor smiths warranty with Gunsmiths in house. I bought two one for my Father and also one for myself.
 
I found a newer dealer from gunbroker's FFL finder that does transfers for $10. Only catch is he won't accept from a non-FFL. Said that he's had problems with "unscrupulous individuals in the past". If I need to ship from a non-FFL there's a pawn shop guy in the next won over that does it for $20.

I couldn't find a Kahr PM9 in-stock around here so I ordered from Bud's and used the $10 guy. I usually do like to check with my local guys first.
 
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