I tried to buy locally.

[ishida]

Duke, that does not work. You are treating the customers like they should BEG you to let them in your door to pay 600% above everyone elses' prices, just because you treat them like sh*t.

You know what? I pay a large premium more at my local shop. Not because he treats me like sh*t, not because he's busy all the time, but because HE TREATS ME WELL. He caters to my desires and treats me like a PERSON. He accepts and notes he doesn't know everything, but makes it a point to LEARN after he's been asked. He'll grab his laptop and look it up with me, if he isn't particularly busy. He'll do a bit of research on a gun I'm after to better provide me service on it, such as a recent CZ-52. He'll talk to me, and haggle with me. I STILL pay a premium, for the services and kindness. And even after that, I still end up with free or discounted ammunition, or discounted accessories, and free transfers. Because I spend extra, and often, I get free transfers. Occasionally he'll drop the check fee. And his business is booming because of it. He knows that value is more than price, and service is king.

Your premise is bad business practices = good. No, I find that those who take the time to "hold the customer's hand" gets the most business and gets more referral business than the a-hole. They make friends, which means more return business. More referral business. Their willingness to work with the customer instead of treating them like $ signs and cows makes them appealing to the customer and generates business, unlike the a-hole.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I'm not saying a proprietor should behave like a jerk. I'm saying that sometimes the best thing you can tell a client is the last thing they want to hear. I'm saying that if the proprietor/professional is worth his fee, he knows more about his business than the customer, and therefore is probably right, and the customer wrong, in a disagreement. I'm saying that I don't care if my mechanic or my plumber or my lawyer is grouchy, eccentric and withdrawn, or cheerful and friendly; I care that he is the best I can afford.

Now, that doesn't mean that a pleasant shop is not worth a premium. I choose to shop at stores where I enjoy the shopping experience. Sometimes that means decor and ambience, sometimes it means sexy shopgirls, sometimes it means friendly banter. But that's extra sauce. The meat of the dish is the quality of the goods and services, and if the shop is selling good goods and providing services of service, it will be busy, and the proprietor will not have the time or inclination to engage in a lot of sales talk with me. That's the "busy" in "business."

 

[Bubba613]

You forgot, I'm the guy spending the money. If you feel customers are a pain, lock the doors and talk among yourselves. Enjoy!

And I'm the guy providing the goods and services you want. Just because you have a dollar in your pocket doesn't mean I'm going to fawn over you.

Like the guy last Fri. I had closed the door and turned on the alarm. He pulls up just at that minute with his son. I tell him I'm closing but I will open up for him.
Well, he's on a journey of discovery. For starters, he just bought a Glock somethingorother and wants to know what I get on them. So I tell him.
Meanwhile his son, about 12, wants to know the most powerful gun I have and what caliber this is etc etc. Now, I'm past closing time and really pressed to get out.
Then dad wants to see the Smith 442 I have. OK.
I hand it to him cylinder open. He looks at it. Lord help me, he flicks the gun to close the cylinder. I must have blanched and he said, oh I guess I shouldn't have done that.
I look at him and say, don't ever do that to a revolver. You bend the crane that way.
He looks around a little more. Total time probably 10 minutes. Of course walks out without a card and never buys anything.
Customer always right? No, I think not.

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

And I'm the guy providing the goods and services you want. Just because you have a dollar in your pocket doesn't mean I'm going to fawn over you.

There is always someone else providing the same goods and services. I don’t ask shop owners to “fawn over” me, but I do expect friendly, courteous treatment.

A couple weeks ago I was at Dick’s in the Park Meadows Mall in Denver. It’s close to home and my family has spent a lot of money there in the last few years. While Daughter #2 was looking at ski boots and bindings I decided to wander over to the gun section. I asked to look at one of the rifles and the woman behind the counter asked me for my driver’s license, informing me she had to hold it behind the counter while I looked at the guns. I didn’t mind showing identification but after putting the license on the counter I decided I didn’t care to be treated like a potential criminal, picked it back up and walked away. I mentioned the incident to my wife and another clerk overheard me. He said they had to do it because it was the law. (It’s not.)

Later, after dinner, I stopped back and asked a man behind the gun counter for the business card of the department manager. The salesperson asked me if there was a problem. I really didn’t want to get into it but I relented and told him I objected to the store policy on licenses and was going to contact the manager about it. The salesperson instantly got irate and belligerently claimed “It’s the law!” I informed him that it may be store policy but it certainly wasn’t the law. The sales person came unglued and shouted “Well, it’s the law HERE!” as he stabbed the glass countertop with his finger. Yeah, whatever you say, dude! I just walked away. Later I wrote an email to the manager explaining how I didn’t care to be treated like an ignorant fool or member of a suspect class, that we had spent thousands of dollars in that store in the past couple years but that in the future our sporting goods dollars would go to the competition. A copy of the email was sent to Dick’s corporate offices. The fact that I haven’t heard back from either the manager or the corporate offices confirms what I already knew. Well, spending my money elsewhere is no loss or inconvenience to me, plenty of competitors to choose from.

My wife and I were asked to leave a pizza parlor many years ago. We were new in the area and decided to stop for a pizza with our favorite ingredients. The pizza menu was kind of weird. We couldn’t find one we wanted, there was no “create your own” section and there was a statement “No substitutions, please!” at the bottom. We discussed going elsewhere but the place was empty, we were hungry and we decided to ask the waitress if we could in fact get a substitution. Sure, no problem, says she. My wife and I relax and about the time we are expecting our pizza the manager comes out and starts yelling at us for having asked for a substitution. He tells us to eat our pizza and not come back. Wow! OK, we didn’t go back. Couldn’t – the place closed down shortly afterwards. We don’t have any question in our minds why it was empty when we were there.

Another time we were asked to leave a car dealership. We were looking for a specific vehicle with specific options and found one, but it was parked behind another, similar vehicle. We asked to drive it but the salesperson insisted we drive the similar vehicle in front, which had a smaller engine that was unacceptable to us. We politely insisted we wanted to drive the vehicle in back and the salesperson leaves, we think to get the keys. A few minutes later the floor manager comes out to where we are waiting and wants to know what our problem with Hispanics is. Huh? The first salesperson had been Hispanic and obviously didn’t speak English as a first language, but that didn’t bother us – we just wanted to drive the vehicle we were interested in buying, not waste our time driving something else, and we had been polite and respectful but firm in our request. As asked, we never went back and we bought elsewhere. No big deal to us. That dealership closed down a year or two later. No surprise to us if they treated everyone like they did us.

I’ve already, in a previous post, related my experience at the old Parker Gun Store. Treated like crap by an owner with an attitude and decided never to set foot in the place again. I didn’t, at least not until the “Going out of business” sale. In the meantime I figure the store lost a couple thousand in sales that went to their more distant competitors.

Taco Bell treated me pretty shabbily about 1994 or so. I had been going there a couple times a week for lunch for a couple months when they came out with a new 59 cent burrito. I decided to give it a try but the real product was nothing like the pictures, not that I was expecting much for the price. Still, I was pretty shocked when I opened up the burrito it was all empty tortilla with a small spoonful of ingredients in the middle. I complained to the manager who took the burrito back to the preparation area. A couple minutes later he came back and said there was just the right amount of ingredients in it. Really? No offer of a refund, or anything else. I ate the burrito but haven’t spent another cent in a Taco Bell since.

Treat me poorly and my money walks.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

The day my services are compared to a burrito at Taco Bell is the day the prospective customer gets booted out into the snowdrift into the path of a rotary plow.

 

[ishida]

And that's also the day you lose several thousand in profits, exponential in the form of referrals to stay the hell away from "that a-hole running that shop".

When you treat customers like sh*t, they retaliate by reciting their experience to EVERYONE AND ANYONE who will listen. A stern recommendation to stay the hell away and spend money elsewhere.

And it does not help you to want prospective customers to DIE because they won't grovel at your feet for the privilege of shopping at your store.

I'll keep giving my money to the man who treats me like a HUMAN and decided he wants to business and the referral business I send there at every chance. Free coffee, great service, great prices, and great friends, no wonder he can't beat customers away with a stick! AND he still has the time to talk to his customers individually, AND run a small academy. It's not his fault that other "successful" business owners are horrible at managing their time.

It's called Business Darwinism. I've seen it happen firsthand on both ends of the spectrum. Aforementioned success, and horrible failure of a-holes trying to start shops under the assumption that everyone who comes in the door is a $ and an idiot.

 

[pmeisel]

Duke, I don't know you or your business, but that sounds almost like a dare....

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

The day my services are compared to a burrito at Taco Bell is the day the prospective customer gets booted out into the snowdrift into the path of a rotary plow.

There are business elements that are common to every business that succeeds for any length of time – doesn’t matter if the business is a doctor’s office, a car dealership, a big box chain, a taco stand or a gun store. It wasn’t the burrito that mattered so much as the manner in which my legitimate concerns as a customer were dismissed.

Don’t know what your business is but I have no doubt I’d rather not do business with you.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

There is a gunshop in xxxxxxx,Al. that I won't do business with. It is on my way to work and would be VERY convenient for me to stop by. I won't because the owner treats me like crap. He has a GREAT inventory and does a thriving business because he caters to the thug crowd. Groups of young men with sagging pants and cross worn hats and LOTS of money. He doesn't want MY business and doesn't get it!

 

[Bubba613]

There is always someone else providing the same goods and services. I don’t ask shop owners to “fawn over” me, but I do expect friendly, courteous treatment.

There are many more customers than there are gun shops. Or any other provider for that matter.
ANd there are many more bad customers than there are bad service providers. Generally speaking you get treated the way you deserve. I've certainly experienced my share of bad customer service but I don't keep a running tally of it.

 

[MikePGS]

I see a lot of comments about how people would avoid Duke's shop, and that would of course be very easy to do. The reason for this is that Duke doesn't own a gun store. I believe he is a criminal defense attorney, so I could see how he too would have a good deal of experience with irritable clients.


I personally am a gun store owners worst nightmare. I usually know exactly what I want to look at and try not to roll my eyes at the occasional whacky comment I might receive from them. Also I'm in the process of buying (choosing my first hand gun) so I'm doing a lot of looking and fondling, but no buying (at this point). However in the next month or so I am going to purchase 2 handguns, and there are certain shops that my money will not be going to due to extremely poor service. I know that people who own any business would love it if everyone who came through the door were to buy something, but thats just not the case. In some cases (like my own) you have a person who is interested in something, but still trying to weed out exactly which precise product they want (which I'm sure happens quite a bit at gun stores). One local shop has a range and I've rented 3-4 different guns from them, each time paying the 30 dollar rental fee and buying at least a box of ammo from them. Their prices are quite high, but I still might consider them when making a purchase. On the other hand, there is a shop that has employees who are very friendly on the phone, but when you come into the shop you get the worst attitude you can possibly imagine. I walked in there once and asked to see a gun and the rotund gentleman behind the counter literally sighed and looked as if I had asked him to take atlas's burden off of his shoulders for just a minute or to, when in reality he had to walk 15 feet to a case, and pull a gun weighing less than a pound out of it. When I didn't immediately gush over the (beat up) firearm he showed me and offer to buy it, he attitude only got worse. They have ok prices, but nothing to get excited over. I understand the guy might have been having a rough day, or could have just been a complete jerk. That being said, I'm glad I live in a society that (mostly) embraces capitalism because there are literally a dozen or so different shops I can purchase the exact same goods at for a better price with better service. I've worked in retail for most of my working life, so I understand that customers are annoying and that often times its just no fun. That being said I rarely if ever would let my internal monolouge reflect on the way I project myself to a potential customer. High prices are something I can understand (and avoid, but at least I can understand them). However, a poor or even hostile customer service approach is something I refuse to tolerate. And yes I understand that my two guns that I'm going to buy will not even come close to making or breaking a store, but discouraging dozens of people from purchasing by using the same poor people skills certainly could.

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

There are many more customers than there are gun shops. Or any other provider for that matter.
ANd there are many more bad customers than there are bad service providers. Generally speaking you get treated the way you deserve. I've certainly experienced my share of bad customer service but I don't keep a running tally of it.

While I don’t consider myself to be a “bad customer” I don’t allow sellers to trample over me, either. If a vendor wants my money they will treat me with courtesy and respect regardless of what their experiences with other customers may have been, or the fact that they wrecked their truck on the way in to work, their wife just filed for divorce, their unmarried 14-year old daughter just announced she was pregnant, their son was hauled in for dealing drugs and their doctor just informed them they had an advanced case of inoperable lung cancer. None of that matters to me.

I don’t intentionally keep a running tally of businesses where I’ve been treated poorly, but on the other hand it isn’t hard to remember not to go to Joe *****’s place when there is an alternative. And there’s always an alternative.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

I don't have a problem with your boycotting various businesses, and getting thrown out of a place can indeed be perversely gratifying. But I will relate one true experience you may wish to consider.

Many years ago I shopped at McGruder's, a quasi-high-end grocery store in the Washington, D.C. area. For reasons I never understood, their meat went bad fast. Maybe it was the warm climate. I've never had that problem anywhere else. But I got a couple racks of ribs at McGruder's (regular, not clearance, and well within the expiration date) which racks, when I opened the plastic, REEKED. I mean, bad.

That had happened to me before with low-end shops and clearance items and I shrugged it off as an accepted risk. But for a regular meat item at a place with prices like McGruder's? I went back to the store with the ribs in a bag, and confronted the meat manager. To my amazement, he pretended not to smell the rot, and put up an argument. Well, frankly, and this isn't my favorite part of the story but I believe in being thorough and honest, I had had a bit to drink. Probably shouldn't have even driven there, to be honest. But I was young and stupid. Anyway, I made quite a scene. Really a commotion. Right there in front of the other customers. I don't quite recall the exact sequence of events with total clarity, but suffice it to say I left the establishment. When I got home, I bragged about being thrown out -- a bit of an exaggeration, as I don't think I actually was told to leave.

Well, guess what? For a couple of years, my impressionable young daughter remembered that her father, and her hero, "had been thrown out" of McGruder's. Even though that probably isn't exactly what happened. Over that couple of years I explained that I wasn't actually thrown out, and I believe she's forgotten all about it. Though she'd probably remember if I reminded her.

That experience taught me a lesson I've never forgotten: taking pride in childish behavior, and being treated like a child, is not right. Don't get yourself thrown out (or sort of thrown out) of business establishments. That is not adult behavior.

 

[Bubba613]

While I don’t consider myself to be a “bad customer” I don’t allow sellers to trample over me, either.

I've never had someone come in and announce "I'm a really lousy customer. I'm gonna sit here for 45 minutes plus, bore your ears off with stories of what I found at gun shows, ask to fondle every gun in the case, push them up against each other to compare, scratching the finish as I do it. I will give my unsolicited advice to every customer that comes in, no matter how inane or inappropriate it is.
"Then I'm going to buy a 2 dollar item and tell everyone how lousy you are that you stopped paying attention to a paying customer."
They don't announce that. They just do it.

 

[koginam]

I'll tell you why so many shop owners are grouchy and short with customers.
we put in 12 to 16 hour days, we have guns repaired and setting in the rack to be picked up for months, our money is tied up setting in the rack, I have parts and labor invested in those guns and when I call the customer and tell him it's done for the third time and its still here I tell them I will sell it to recover costs in 30 days I get told I'm an @#$%hole they will sue me and never do business with me again and neither will their friends.

Customers show disrespect for our merchandise by dry firing, slamming closed cylinders, dropping magazines, scratching stocks, and than they want a discount on the rifle because its scratched.
I have had customers yell at my counterman because he was ignorant, he didn't know about some obscure polish gun made in 1743.

Customers that are experts because they read gun magazines, they have to tell you all about the 900 nitro express that pushes a 700 grain supper hollow point at 4397fps with a 2 inch drop at 40000 yds, they new it was true because they had just read about it in Guns & ammo magazine.

Customers whose checks bounce and cause you to pay bank fees, I make these guys famous, I put their name on the reader board out front and ask them to please come pick up their bad check, seeing their name in 6 foot lights spurs them to pay up better then 10 phone calls. They also tell me they won't be back and neither will their friends.

Customers who come into the shop while its full of customers and want to get served right away and are mad because the sales people didn't stop helping the customer they were with and jump to help them right away.
Customers that come in and want me to bore sight the rifle and scope they bought from Wally world for free.

Customers that threaten to sue you for the cost of their $5,500 guided hunt in Canada because the bore sighting you did for them caused them to miss their moose by 5 feet, and when you try to explain to them what bore sighting is for your a fool and a crook and they won't be back.

Customers that demand I match the price off the Internet or from Wally world. I had one customer tell me it was the law that I match prices.
Customers that get mad at you because you don't know which box of ammo they need to buy because they can't tell you the caliber, "but it looks just like that one" pointing at a Glock.

To be honest I would rather not sell guns, there is very little mark up and way to much paper work and if you mess up even a little on that paper work you could loose your business and face time in jail. But in order to sell the rest of the stuff that I do have a mark up on it's necessary.
Luckily I only see a few of these customers a day, by far most are courteous and they are treated the same.

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

That experience taught me a lesson I've never forgotten: taking pride in childish behavior, and being treated like a child, is not right. Don't get yourself thrown out (or sort of thrown out) of business establishments. That is not adult behavior.

In none of the instances I related do I consider the behavior of my wife or myself "childish" in any way. In fact, at the car dealership and pizza joint, the only ones we were asked to leave, both my wife and I were totally shocked by the completely unexpected attitude of the managers involved. In both cases they they were working off incomplete and probably wrong information related by other workers.

Nevertheless, their bad behavior was enough to make sure we never set foot in either establishment again. We still laugh about the incidents and don't feel we provoked anyone in either case.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

It's a subjective thing, but asking for substitutions in a restaurant is pretty childish in my view. If you want it different from how the chef creates it, cook it yourself. Or order something else. My own parents, God bless them, they're great people, do that. It's mortifying when they do, sort of like when they whip out the ol' calculator to determine the tip down to the penny. But I'll admit it's common.

Demanding a refund for a 59 cent burrito with debatably insufficient condiments is comical, I don't care who you are.

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

It's a subjective thing, but asking for substitutions in a restaurant is pretty childish in my view. If you want it different from how the chef creates it, cook it yourself. Or order something else. My own parents, God bless them, they're great people, do that. It's mortifying when they do, sort of like when they whip out the ol' calculator to determine the tip down to the penny. But I'll admit it's common.

I see nothing childish at all about asking for substitutions – some restaurants are more than willing to allow substitutions, others less so. Regardless, it’s a common practice and a vendor is always welcome to say “No” and risk losing a sale. On the other hand it engenders good will by improving the customer’s experience.

In the case in question we decided no harm would come of asking, even though the menu explicitly stated “No substitutions, please.” If the answer was “No” we would have simply left and gone down the street. No biggy to us but we thought we’d give the place a chance.

By the way, the waitress was happy to allow the substitution which is why we were so shocked later when the manager came to our table and was irate.

Demanding a refund for a 59 cent burrito with debatably insufficient condiments is comical, I don't care who you are.

Obviously you have challenges comprehending what you read.

I never asked for a refund, I stated that none was offered. I simply thought a mistake had been made based on how the product was being advertised. Had I been the store manager I would have offered a refund without being asked, considering it to be good business to do so.

Again, no biggy. That incident happend in the mid 90's and I haven't set foot in a Taco Bell since. Not my loss...

 

[SuperNaut]

Business would be great except for all those customers. Y'know, all asking questions about potential purchases, and expecting good service. It's almost as if there were a thousand other places and a thousand other things upon which they could spend their money. During this eternal economic boom there is no reason to go the extra inch, let alone the extra mile.

 

[koginam]

SuperNaut sarcasm is good I like it it shows a sense of humor.

 

[SuperNaut]

Unfortunately, due to the economy, humor is now on ration.







p.s. Lately the phrase "due to the economy" is like the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card. Try it, it works!

 

[Guns and more]

Only the airline industry can take pride in bad service anymore.

 

[CoRoMo]

I also decided to give my local gun stores a shot (pun intended).
I've gotten the same type response from most all the local shops.

They simply want to charge their prices and don't care to deal, and that's fine with me.

 

[Bubba613]

That might have something to do with the firearms biz these days.
I had a Bushmaster M4 on the rack. It had been there for 3 days. Highway patrolman comes in as his buddy told him I had one.
Would I give him a better price on it?
I told him, you're kidding right?
The gun was marked $999. The next shop up the road had one just like it for $1099, and the one further away had one for $1199.
Further I knew I could sell the gun 3 times over in the next week.
He understood perfectly and was happy. I was happy. I didn't blame him for asking. I did throw in a box of ammo just because he was a good sport about it.
But if someone complains because I won't dicker on a Kel Tec .380 or Glock 19 they can just kiss my grits.

 

[Coyote_Hunter_]

Business would be great except for all those customers. Y'know, all asking questions about potential purchases, and expecting good service. It's almost as if there were a thousand other places and a thousand other things upon which they could spend their money. During this eternal economic boom there is no reason to go the extra inch, let alone the extra mile.

Customers are such an inconvenience! If only they knew they were supposed to accept whatever is being pushed that week, lay their money down and go the heck away.

A few weeks back I was in a gun store where several salespeople were behind the counter gabbing about something completely unrelated to work. Try as I might, I couldn’t get one of them to acknowledge me as I stood right across the counter from them. After going through a phase of patience, then one of getting increasingly irritated by their rudeness, I finally left.

Another one I love is when you’re at the cash register checking out when the phone rings. If the clerk spends longer on the phone than it takes to say “I’m with a customer, if you can hold I’ll be with you in a minute” there is a good chance I’ll just leave whatever I had on the counter and walk out the door – too many times I’ve felt like a hostage while the clerk gabbed on and on while I waited to pay the bill.

Radio shack used to ask for your name, address and phone number every time you made a purchase. Maybe they still do, I wouldn’t know because I haven’t set foot in one in years. At any rate, I figured it was none of their business especially for cash transactions. But I always gave them the choice – they could have my personal information or they could take my money, pick one.

A number of years back my nephew and neice were living with us, making a family of 7, with 5 kids between the ages of 4 and 8. We went to a local Chinese restaurant where they tried to seat us at a table for 4. My wife an I looked at each other, wondering how they intended to get service for 8 plus the food platters, bowls of rice and drinks on the table. A larger, round table was sitting empty, as were probably half the tables in the place. We asked to get seated at the larger table and they grumpily obliged us. When the water came the server slammed the glasses down on the table, spilling water every time. My wife and I looked at each other again, in complete agreement. We got the kids up and left, never to go back. Don’t know what the bill would have come to but it wouldn’t have been small for a restaurant like that. That’s another business that is long gone.

In fact, I’ve lost track of how many businesses I’ve walked out of over the years because I didn’t care for the attitude of the salespeople or wait staff. They probably didn’t care. I know I didn’t.