Kimber VP will vote against Bush
- Thread starter rick_reno
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MrChicken
Member
I've sent an email to Kimber, my friends and the local range.
I'll be checking out other brands of 1911's now.
I'll be checking out other brands of 1911's now.
RocketMan
Member
Just another "Vote for Kerry - The Second Amendment is about Hunting", supposed "news" article. How many of these have we seen? Nothing new here, folks, move along...
Slow down. Read carefully
FWIW, I have not talked with Ryan Busse about this. I have hunted with Ryan many times. I have stayed at his home. I have eaten with his mother and father at their big farm in Kansas.
Ryan is a strong a gun rights guy.
Some of the posts here have confused the quote from Tony Dean with Ryan. Tony has no connection to Kimber.
You also will note that the quote from Ryan is somewhat vague, and it causes me to wonder about the context. I don't see it saying he's going to vote for Kerry.
Might be wise to get clarification before basing actions. And, remember, just because it is in print doesn't mean it's accurate. <grin>
FWIW, I have not talked with Ryan Busse about this. I have hunted with Ryan many times. I have stayed at his home. I have eaten with his mother and father at their big farm in Kansas.
Ryan is a strong a gun rights guy.
Some of the posts here have confused the quote from Tony Dean with Ryan. Tony has no connection to Kimber.
You also will note that the quote from Ryan is somewhat vague, and it causes me to wonder about the context. I don't see it saying he's going to vote for Kerry.
Might be wise to get clarification before basing actions. And, remember, just because it is in print doesn't mean it's accurate. <grin>
MrChicken
Member
By saying he is not voting for Bush on a national media outlet, he is effectively campaigning against Bush, and for Kerry.
We all know what will happen if Kerry and Company gain power.
We all know what will happen if Kerry and Company gain power.
lapidator
Member
I suspect that if not now, then very soon, the vast majority of Kimber's business is going to be LEO -- so what do they care if we-the-people buy their guns?
Lapidator
The range I attend draws all kinds of shooters.
Hunters, milsurp collectors, AR guys AK clone guys, benchrest, blackpowder.
I've got some really bad dirty looks and sneers while shooting my camp carbine, SAR1 or SKS next to a hunter type person.
The bigotry runs both ways. It seems there are just lots of second amendment apologists within the gun ranks.
Hunters, milsurp collectors, AR guys AK clone guys, benchrest, blackpowder.
I've got some really bad dirty looks and sneers while shooting my camp carbine, SAR1 or SKS next to a hunter type person.
The bigotry runs both ways. It seems there are just lots of second amendment apologists within the gun ranks.
general
Member
Tom,
I made sure to phrase it as a querey....
Just an observation of..
Well sir, I myself am human too. I possibly, may have, in some respects; misjudged this piece. Mayhaps the Scripps Service is bending the intent and or getting a bit higgledy-piggledy in their reports.
Tom,
I have no personal knowledge of Ryan Busse, but it appears you do. If fault lies with Scripps News Service for muddling Mr. Busses' intent, then my apologies to him. I will also clarify my correspondence with Kimber as well as my displeasure at Scripps editor/writer. Fair enough?
I made sure to phrase it as a querey....
(as in: thrown into confusion)
You are right... the quote doesn't say anything about his particular politics...
Just an observation of..
And that IS true.
Well sir, I myself am human too. I possibly, may have, in some respects; misjudged this piece. Mayhaps the Scripps Service is bending the intent and or getting a bit higgledy-piggledy in their reports.
Tom,
I have no personal knowledge of Ryan Busse, but it appears you do. If fault lies with Scripps News Service for muddling Mr. Busses' intent, then my apologies to him. I will also clarify my correspondence with Kimber as well as my displeasure at Scripps editor/writer. Fair enough?
You've gotta be fricken' kidding me...
No. I don't buy Kimbers because I think they are overpriced pieces of junk with tons of MIM parts thrown in. I guess my P7M8, Colt Delta Gold Cup, DW Razorback, DW Bobtail, SIG 220, Performance Center 15-9, etc... don't count in the equation for "being able to afford one".
...and you can keep your crappy Schwartz safety, too.
Please.
As far as hunters are concerned, I too have grown up around them and I have supported their rights constantly. It just makes me angry when they don't support my rights or understand what the 2A was all about. Yeah, I bet that Thos. Jefferson really meant to throw in "hunting rights" along with free speech, fair trial, search and seizure, and freedom of and from religion clauses...
MrChicken
Member
Email reply from Kimber
here it is:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of quote by Ryan Busse relating to upcoming election
A news report dated March 11, 2004, and brought to our attention by
several Kimber owners contains what is presented as a quote from Kimber
employee Ryan Busse.
The actual statement made by Mr. Busse was misquoted and presented out
of context.
Mr. Busse did not state how he planned to vote in the upcoming national
election. His actual statement simply expressed concern that some
voters who traditionally support conservative candidates might switch
affiliation in reaction to this development, and that he hoped this
switch would not happen as it would not be good for either the
preservation of hunting opportunity or second amendment rights.
Mr. Busse is a life-long supporter of the second amendment, hunting and
conservation - as well as being politically conservative. It was not
his intention to suggest or encourage a position that would in any way
weaken second amendment rights or public hunting opportunity. Moreover,
he was not representing Kimber when the statement was made.
Both Kimber and Mr. Busse apologize for this misunderstanding, and thank
our customers for bringing it to our attention.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate the reply and I must say that it was one heck of a "mis-quote".
here it is:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarification of quote by Ryan Busse relating to upcoming election
A news report dated March 11, 2004, and brought to our attention by
several Kimber owners contains what is presented as a quote from Kimber
employee Ryan Busse.
The actual statement made by Mr. Busse was misquoted and presented out
of context.
Mr. Busse did not state how he planned to vote in the upcoming national
election. His actual statement simply expressed concern that some
voters who traditionally support conservative candidates might switch
affiliation in reaction to this development, and that he hoped this
switch would not happen as it would not be good for either the
preservation of hunting opportunity or second amendment rights.
Mr. Busse is a life-long supporter of the second amendment, hunting and
conservation - as well as being politically conservative. It was not
his intention to suggest or encourage a position that would in any way
weaken second amendment rights or public hunting opportunity. Moreover,
he was not representing Kimber when the statement was made.
Both Kimber and Mr. Busse apologize for this misunderstanding, and thank
our customers for bringing it to our attention.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I appreciate the reply and I must say that it was one heck of a "mis-quote".
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
Here we go again, another "hunter and conservationist" for the 2A
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
He forgot to mention the RKBA for the "other" reasons.
This thread is all about hunters and support for hunting while ignoring the 2A in its entirety but for their small focus. Get it?
To put it another way, I would expect Kimber, a maker of personal defense handguns, to address more than "hunting" when "clarifying " the "mis-statement" by their "VP."
This thread is all about hunters and support for hunting while ignoring the 2A in its entirety but for their small focus. Get it?
To put it another way, I would expect Kimber, a maker of personal defense handguns, to address more than "hunting" when "clarifying " the "mis-statement" by their "VP."
What the thread has morphed to has no application to the original concern.
Kimber supports gun rights. It gives BIG dollars to important causes. It came up with the idea of the USA Shooting Team gun and has given $200,000 to that effort. It was one of the first companies to get involved in the Hunting Shooting Sports Heritage Fund (are you a member?). The HSSHF is the outfit putting up millions to fight the city lawsuits to shut down gun companies.
And, since I know Ryan Busse well, and have talked gun rights with him while shooting thousands of rounds, I feel comfortable saying that anyone who questions his committment to gun rights simply doesn't know what he or she is talking about.
Then again, as we have so often seen, there are a few gunnies who just love to bash gun companies, gun groups, or other gunnies who they view as being not as pure as they are on the Second Amendment.
Sorry. That dog won't hunt this time. I know better.
And . . . I would put Kimber's committment to the Second Amendment up against that of any gun company.
Some of the folks here would have you think that "hunter" is a dirty word. How stupid and self-destructive can we gun owners get?
Time to give this one a rest and go to work on the real issues.
Kimber supports gun rights. It gives BIG dollars to important causes. It came up with the idea of the USA Shooting Team gun and has given $200,000 to that effort. It was one of the first companies to get involved in the Hunting Shooting Sports Heritage Fund (are you a member?). The HSSHF is the outfit putting up millions to fight the city lawsuits to shut down gun companies.
And, since I know Ryan Busse well, and have talked gun rights with him while shooting thousands of rounds, I feel comfortable saying that anyone who questions his committment to gun rights simply doesn't know what he or she is talking about.
Then again, as we have so often seen, there are a few gunnies who just love to bash gun companies, gun groups, or other gunnies who they view as being not as pure as they are on the Second Amendment.
Sorry. That dog won't hunt this time. I know better.
And . . . I would put Kimber's committment to the Second Amendment up against that of any gun company.
Some of the folks here would have you think that "hunter" is a dirty word. How stupid and self-destructive can we gun owners get?
Time to give this one a rest and go to work on the real issues.
Ok guys. Watch who does the original posting before you get too upset. Agendas, Agendas. Some scour the web for anything that they can quote to prove their position. Most of them are full of unsubstantiated "facts", if not outright untruths.
MrChicken
Member
"What the thread has morphed to has no application to the original concern.
Kimber supports gun rights. It gives BIG dollars to important causes. It came up with the idea of the USA Shooting Team gun and has given $200,000 to that effort. It was one of the first companies to get involved in the Hunting Shooting Sports Heritage Fund (are you a member?). The HSSHF is the outfit putting up millions to fight the city lawsuits to shut down gun companies."
I'm with you here...
"And, since I know Ryan Busse well, and have talked gun rights with him while shooting thousands of rounds, I feel comfortable saying that anyone who questions his committment to gun rights simply doesn't know what he or she is talking about."
It's a "misquote", that's fine with me too. I would like to see a statement disputing what ESPN reported from Mr Busse. The "misquote" is pretty damning as it was printed. If it was I, I would have ESPN print a retraction of such a heinous misquote.
"Then again, as we have so often seen, there are a few gunnies who just love to bash gun companies, gun groups, or other gunnies who they view as being not as pure as they are on the Second Amendment.
Sorry. That dog won't hunt this time. I know better. "
There goes your credibility.
"And . . . I would put Kimber's committment to the Second Amendment up against that of any gun company."
I'm with you here...
"Some of the folks here would have you think that "hunter" is a dirty word. How stupid and self-destructive can we gun owners get?"
I am one of those that have come to realize that when a person says they are "a hunter" they mean they dont care about handguns, military weapons or basically anything that isnt not a regular "deer rifle". They believe with absolute certainty that their "deer rifle" or shotgun will never be at risk, and could not care less about any other type of gun rights other than hunting.
Being a "hunter" and only caring about your so-called right to hunt, without knowing that there exists no such right, is self destructive. The right is to keep and bear arms, not hunt.
Kimber supports gun rights. It gives BIG dollars to important causes. It came up with the idea of the USA Shooting Team gun and has given $200,000 to that effort. It was one of the first companies to get involved in the Hunting Shooting Sports Heritage Fund (are you a member?). The HSSHF is the outfit putting up millions to fight the city lawsuits to shut down gun companies."
I'm with you here...
"And, since I know Ryan Busse well, and have talked gun rights with him while shooting thousands of rounds, I feel comfortable saying that anyone who questions his committment to gun rights simply doesn't know what he or she is talking about."
It's a "misquote", that's fine with me too. I would like to see a statement disputing what ESPN reported from Mr Busse. The "misquote" is pretty damning as it was printed. If it was I, I would have ESPN print a retraction of such a heinous misquote.
"Then again, as we have so often seen, there are a few gunnies who just love to bash gun companies, gun groups, or other gunnies who they view as being not as pure as they are on the Second Amendment.
Sorry. That dog won't hunt this time. I know better. "
There goes your credibility.
"And . . . I would put Kimber's committment to the Second Amendment up against that of any gun company."
I'm with you here...
"Some of the folks here would have you think that "hunter" is a dirty word. How stupid and self-destructive can we gun owners get?"
I am one of those that have come to realize that when a person says they are "a hunter" they mean they dont care about handguns, military weapons or basically anything that isnt not a regular "deer rifle". They believe with absolute certainty that their "deer rifle" or shotgun will never be at risk, and could not care less about any other type of gun rights other than hunting.
Being a "hunter" and only caring about your so-called right to hunt, without knowing that there exists no such right, is self destructive. The right is to keep and bear arms, not hunt.
"I am one of those that have come to realize that when a person says they are "a hunter" they mean they dont care about handguns, military weapons or basically anything that isnt not a regular "deer rifle". They believe with absolute certainty that their "deer rifle" or shotgun will never be at risk, and could not care less about any other type of gun rights other than hunting. "
Hmmm. I do understand where this thinking comes from, because there are some who proclaim that being a hunter is enough. However, I would submit that you have make a leap of logic that doesn't hold up when you then decide that any hunter can't be a strong second amendment supporter.
Neal Knox is an avid hunter. Is he not a Second Amendment supporter?
Jim Baker is an avid hunter, and he's also a leading lobbyist for gun rights.
Wayne LaPierre is a hunter . . .
It goes on and on.
My point is that being a hunter is not disqualifying as being a strong second amendment advocate any more than being an environmentalist, a Liberal, a woman, or a member of the Pink Pistols is.
Some hunters are. Some are not.
Hmmm. I do understand where this thinking comes from, because there are some who proclaim that being a hunter is enough. However, I would submit that you have make a leap of logic that doesn't hold up when you then decide that any hunter can't be a strong second amendment supporter.
Neal Knox is an avid hunter. Is he not a Second Amendment supporter?
Jim Baker is an avid hunter, and he's also a leading lobbyist for gun rights.
Wayne LaPierre is a hunter . . .
It goes on and on.
My point is that being a hunter is not disqualifying as being a strong second amendment advocate any more than being an environmentalist, a Liberal, a woman, or a member of the Pink Pistols is.
Some hunters are. Some are not.
MrChicken
Member
I'll clarify a little.
In my experience of meeting people who identify themselves as "hunters", those people are the type that I described, only concerned about hunting and not gun rights of any type that they do not believe relates to hunting.
The rest of the gun people I meet identify themselves in many different ways, as shooters, gun nuts. handgunners, or just gun people, etc... That doesnt mean that they are concerned about all gun rights either. It's just that the "I'm a hunter" has in my experience become a code phrase in regards to gun rights. It is usually followed by a qualifying statement such as : I'm a hunter, but nobody needs a pistol." or "I'm a hunter, but nobody needs an assault rifle."
In my experience of meeting people who identify themselves as "hunters", those people are the type that I described, only concerned about hunting and not gun rights of any type that they do not believe relates to hunting.
The rest of the gun people I meet identify themselves in many different ways, as shooters, gun nuts. handgunners, or just gun people, etc... That doesnt mean that they are concerned about all gun rights either. It's just that the "I'm a hunter" has in my experience become a code phrase in regards to gun rights. It is usually followed by a qualifying statement such as : I'm a hunter, but nobody needs a pistol." or "I'm a hunter, but nobody needs an assault rifle."
general
Member
I too received the same response from Kimber.
Here is the text of my reply;
Dear Mr. Antonovich,
Thank you for your timely response. After much discussion of the issue in the online forums, it was decided that this was probably a misrepresentation of the intent of Mr. Busse. If we had been more discerning in our reading of the article, we could have saved you the trouble and the time. My most sincere apologies to Mr. Busse as well as yourself and your company for what was obviously my mistake in not being a more cautious reader.
Again, I humbly apologize and in future considerations, I vow to use the good sense my mother gave me.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXX
_________
Regarding hunters v. RKBA, I believe the most recent shenanigans involving S. 1805, specifically a 'study' to redefine armor piercing ammo may well do what has been needed for a while. That is, alert the hunters to very real threat to their small corner of the RKBA issue. Furthermore, I do hope that by spreading the word through the hunting community, we can initiate them to the RKBA force. Another few million to mobilize at the threat of rights restrictions is a good thing.
So, instead of continuing to point out our differences, we really should be saying, "Look, they are after your rights too. Here is the proof." We need to work together more. Conversly, when hunting issues come up, let them know we can be counted on. Like the point MrChicken made;
Here is the text of my reply;
Dear Mr. Antonovich,
Thank you for your timely response. After much discussion of the issue in the online forums, it was decided that this was probably a misrepresentation of the intent of Mr. Busse. If we had been more discerning in our reading of the article, we could have saved you the trouble and the time. My most sincere apologies to Mr. Busse as well as yourself and your company for what was obviously my mistake in not being a more cautious reader.
Again, I humbly apologize and in future considerations, I vow to use the good sense my mother gave me.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXX
_________
Regarding hunters v. RKBA, I believe the most recent shenanigans involving S. 1805, specifically a 'study' to redefine armor piercing ammo may well do what has been needed for a while. That is, alert the hunters to very real threat to their small corner of the RKBA issue. Furthermore, I do hope that by spreading the word through the hunting community, we can initiate them to the RKBA force. Another few million to mobilize at the threat of rights restrictions is a good thing.
So, instead of continuing to point out our differences, we really should be saying, "Look, they are after your rights too. Here is the proof." We need to work together more. Conversly, when hunting issues come up, let them know we can be counted on. Like the point MrChicken made;
Right? Wrong? More ideas?
I'm a hunter. I've been a hunter and shooter since I was 10 years old (when people didn't freak upon seeing a kid walking around the countryside with a .22 or shotgun) I own a .308 Browning Abolt, a .270 Ruger M77, a .300WM Winchester M70, 4 handguns, two shotguns, a 10/22, and a ROCK RIVER AR-15. I believe the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting, I believe public lands are a good thing, I support reasonable environmental regulations, and I correspond regularly with my representatives in both Denver and Washington DC.
I'm not too pleased with some of Bush's public lands policies either. I support drilling on ANWAR, since it only involves a small area. I don't support grading roads all over the backcountry of CO. I'm not happy that Bush said he'd sign an extension of the AWB (even though I think he plans on it never reaching his desk). I don't like the Patriot act. I support the war on terrorists. I plan to vote for Bush because a vote for Kerry would betray much of what I stand for, even though he would make me happier on a few things. It's all priorities.
I especially don't like people that lump other people that may not be quite as holy (in their view) as they are into groups. All hunters aren't the same. All "environmentalists" aren't the same. All shooters aren't the same. I even work with a self avowed liberal that thinks there should be no gun laws. He agrees with me on many environmental questions and gun control, but not much else.`
I'm so confused. What am I?
I'm not too pleased with some of Bush's public lands policies either. I support drilling on ANWAR, since it only involves a small area. I don't support grading roads all over the backcountry of CO. I'm not happy that Bush said he'd sign an extension of the AWB (even though I think he plans on it never reaching his desk). I don't like the Patriot act. I support the war on terrorists. I plan to vote for Bush because a vote for Kerry would betray much of what I stand for, even though he would make me happier on a few things. It's all priorities.
I especially don't like people that lump other people that may not be quite as holy (in their view) as they are into groups. All hunters aren't the same. All "environmentalists" aren't the same. All shooters aren't the same. I even work with a self avowed liberal that thinks there should be no gun laws. He agrees with me on many environmental questions and gun control, but not much else.`
I'm so confused. What am I?
7.62FullMetalJacket
Member
You, sir, are a cognizant human.
Or are you an "org?"
Or are you an "org?"
45crittergitter
Member
Oops, there went that $1000 Kimber purchase I was gonna make....
I was looking at some Kimbers yesterday - very nice guns and appear to be good value for the money. I'll continue to purchase their products, I don't care how their VP votes - it's his vote and lets face it, when he steps into that booth none of us are going to know how he voted.
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