May 1: Remember Communism today.

[Dravur]

Freakazoid...

Do you actually understand how capital is formed? I assume you have a job, maybe not. Who is paying you? another poor person? prolly not. Most jobs are created by people creating wealth. They create wealth for themselves by coming up with an idea, hiring people to work and getting a product or service out.

That person pays a competitive wage and the workers make money. Explain how they make money without this? Join a commune and contemplate their navel? Incentives matter and always will. Your utopia of a commie nation simply will not fly as I want a better life for myself and my family and I am willing to work hard to acheive it. I am not, however willing to work hard for your family as that is your responsibility.

I am willing to learn and grow in my job. I went into a career that interested me and do well at it. I am compensated for what I do. The owner makes more money than I do.... Guess what? He invested his own money and took a risk. I am glad that he makes money. I am glad that he took the risk that I did not. Maybe by his example, I can take that risk as well.

The good thing about America is, you can take risks. Communist nations take out that risk and everyone is a little serf to the government.

Sorry, I shall never be a serf to the Government. I will work for whomever I want and have the freedom to risk what I want and when I want.

 

[Thin Black Line]

Not all of socialism is bad. I'd like to see people who denounce socialism also denounce free public education.

Most people have no idea what kind of a system they're living in. They will
denounce one aspect of it while embracing another part of it.

"There isn't one grain of anything in the world that is sold in a free market. Not one! The only place you see a free market is in the speeches of politicians. People who are not in the Midwest do not understand that this is a socialist country."

Dwayne Andreas, CEO Archer Daniels Midland

Socialism....feudalism....call it what you will.....I'm from the Midwest and I'm
here to educate those of you who are not

 

[Chui]

Bougeois = MIDDLE CLASS.

None of the Satanic Monsters that you faun over had anything poor to say of the Elite.

You're a dupe.

It doesn't work.

There are too many armed & aware people to allow your "anarchy" to succeed. Which is why Marx, et. als. wished for the proletariat to be disarmed after the revolution. Of course, those with the intellect to challenge the system were liquidated...

You must love the neo-Trotskyiites (Neo-Cons)....

 

[Thin Black Line]

Amusing....sometimes I am far too subtle. Try looking at my other posts
--especially the ones where I discuss our modern serfdom-- and then decide
which side I'm on.

BTW, enjoy:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/04/20070430-4.html

Yep, while everyone was discussing a short-term military spending bill in the
media, this was "overlooked", "missed" or whatever.....I think it would have
been far more symbolic for this to be signed on May 1 rather than April 30,
but many so-called conservatives might have had a moment of discombobulation
as they tried to mentally reconcile what just happened. Even the most dim-
witted among them might have just realized "their" boy just sold them out
with a literal stroke of the pen.

No no no --far easier to wave the flag and think they're free marketers while
actually enforcing central control via big corp-gov monopoly and biting off
the heads of those who they fail to understand. THAT is socialism in practice.

I'm the last of the free market free lancers and I can tell you for a fact the
system has encircled me to the point of suffocation.

 

[quatin]

I think alot of you don't understand the concept of socialism fully. This country at one point was a very close representative of a "laissez faire" economy. The idea that pure capitalism will work. It didn't. I implore you to read "The Grapes of Wrath". Socialism started to be a large influence in America at that point and I believe the socialist party was at it's high point. They eventually died out, because the administration adopted parts of their platform (just like how 3rd parties are kept down today). Who can argue that government should not meddle with the economy at all? That has proven again and again to be an abominable idea through HISTORY.

JWarren.

Part of the American Dream your father lived is protected today under what McCarthy himself would call "communism". There are certain laws protecting and encouraging small businesses. Had they not been in place, a corporation could easily have snubbed out the entreprenurs before they became serious competition or more likely to prevent small businesses from forming in the first place. Back in the early 20th century, corporations had a stovepipe(?correct term) monopoly that control everything from raw materials, transport and distribution, thereby effectively building a wall to prevent competition unless they had the wealth to build their own stovepipe. One victim of this was the US railway system. They operated under a cartel and would refuse or charge higher fares to customers not in their cartel. I'm not sure what type of business your father had, but many "American Dreams" were destroyed this way.

 

[Chui]

Better yet, quatin, this nation wasn't founded on "Capitalism". It was a system call the "American System".

 

[Art Eatman]

Dunno why it's hard to figure out that the U.S. is a mix of socialistic policies and free market capitalism. Mix. Some of each.

The 1932 platform of the Socialist Workers Party of the United States had become fully enacted into law by 1964. Social Security, among other things. AFDC, farm "parity" subsidies. GI Bill. Medicare, Medicaid, Free Pills for Old Pharts, etc. These are socialistic.

The National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 is more fascistic: "Yeah, it's your business, but we'll tell you how to run it." Add in the EEOC and OSHA to this. And consumer protection.

About the only free market entrepreneurial capitalism is flea markets and illegal drugs. Okay, add garage sales and gun/coin/collectibles shows.

A progressive-rate tax on income is socialistic. "From each, according to his means." A flat tax-rate would not be socialistic; "tithe and go".

Art

 

[Glock Glockler]

Guess you might be glad to hear that the USSR wasn't communist. Since commmunism is classless and STATELESS

Can you point me to any countries that are actually communist so I can compare them to other systems? It seems that the classless and stateless society never quite comes around after the dictatorship of the proletariat is formed. Communism, in the form that you're speaking about, does not exist, why discuss communism any more than discussing the economic system in Valhalla?

And what did your family do to deserve being poor? Nothing. People shouldn't have to live like that. It is my duty as a Christian to help the less fortunate

Go for it, feel free to help people all you want, just please don't solicite the guns of the state to force me to help you.

Chui,

How is Lincoln and Clay's American system any better than socialism, it seems to be a slightly different flavor of socialism to me? Super high tarrifs to protect domastic producers that don't want to compete in the market, central banks, internal improvements (corporate welfare), sounds kinda like how we got into our current mess.

 

[Chui]

Tariffs were put into the system to protect our manufacturers from British suppliers and supporters of "Free Trade". Communism is a HUGE proponent of "Freed Trade" as it supports their concept of a One World Gov't. Sounds too familiar to our "Capitalism", unfortunately.

A Central Bank raises my hackles, but IFF the Central Bank were in the hands of Americans would it be so bad?? I think it's the application or execution, rather, that would make the difference.

I'll have to research the internal improvements = corporate welfare that you mention.

Good post, btw

 

[Chui]

Speaking of economics:

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/econ_crash.htm

 

[Thin Black Line]

Chui, cute website pics. I especially liked the statement that began with
this before it spun off on a conspiracy tangent:

Had we studied their geopolitical plans in their books and major journals such as Foreign Affairs...

Here let me swing this back to May Day and global socialism:

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070501faessay86308/benn-steil/the-end-of-national-currency.html

There you have it from the journal. Anyone been watching the USD(ollar)$
lately? Hmmm? Wonder why you're paying more for stuff? Hmmm?

 

[Glock Glockler]

Chui,

I don't have a problem with the tarrif as a simple revenue generator for the Federal govt, it's much simpler than our Byzantine income tax and vastly less intrusive. A tarrif and free trade arent necessarily in conflict with each other: suppose the US and other countries all have a tarrif of 10% for instance, there is no relative advantage of one country or another because the tarrif is the same. At that point all countries can collect revenue to operate and commerce can let the best producers win. My issue arises when domestic manufacturers use a tarrif to hide behind so they can fleece the comsumers, I think a solution would be for the tarrif to be pegged to the rate of a corporate sales tax.

As for Central banks, I don't see why they're necessary. There is a natural demand for money within the market and the market will meet that demand, all govt needs to do it prosecute fraud and counterfeiting so that if I were to mint the coins of your bank the Secret Service comes to get me, no Federal Reserve is necessary. That would be ideal but given the state of things I'd also be willing to settle for the low-carb version where the US Treasury prints notes instead of the Federal Reserve. There was also a time when the govt would trade any silver people brought in for govt silver coins that they'd mint minus a small fee for the minting process.

As Art mentioned, we have a distinct mix of capitalism and socialism and the Whig platform is just a means of getting a bunch of public money into a few private hands. The reason why marx advocated free trade is that he thought when capitalism was exported to all the peoples of the world, as it would be with universal free trade, that all the workers would realize their exploitation and thus begin global communist revolution. In that regard I think of his support for free trade as being the broken clock at the right time of the day.

I appreciate this discussion as well

 

[AntiqueCollector]

Personally, I prefer a mix of Jefferson's and Jackson's ideas on govt. and the economy, with a bit of Hamilton's advice on tariffs to protect against foreigners. Rejecting, that is, central banks, any money but gold or silver coins, and any heavy govt. involvement in anything really.

 

[Thin Black Line]

I agree Antique Collector, but sadly the people running things from the
corporate boardrooms to the fedgov halls inside the DC beltway Green Zone
do not feel the same way.....oh, look....they're the same people going back
and forth through the revolving door

 

[Thin Black Line]

Sorry...almost forgot this one as well when it comes to Central Banks,
currency, and Global Socialism:

May 3 (Bloomberg) -- Asian finance ministers will this week probably agree to pool part of the region's $2.7 trillion in foreign-exchange holdings to prevent a repeat of the crisis that depleted reserves ten years ago.
<snip>

Finance ministers from China, South Korea and Japan will gather for a meeting tomorrow, before getting together with their counterparts from the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations a day later. Besides reserve pooling, other issues that may be discussed include the development of the region's bond markets.

The pool of reserves may ensure central banks have enough to shield their currencies against any speculative attacks. The unsuccessful defense of their plunging exchange rates a decade ago depleted the reserves of Indonesia, Thailand and South Korea, and prompted them to turn to the IMF to shore up their finances.
<snip>

Last year, at the Asian Development Bank's annual meeting in the Indian city of Hyderabad, China, Japan and South Korea said they will start talks about creating a single monetary unit to reduce costs of doing business between the region's countries.

Calls to forge a common currency have died down since. ADB President Haruhiko Kuroda in January said he isn't confident exchange rates can be coordinated even after an Asean economic community, targeted for 2015, has been established.

[Empahsis mine]

This first week of May has been really interesting, huh? In any case, mark 2015
on your calendars....maybe we'll see the NAU followed by the North Atlantic
Economic Community (at least in practice if not in name since that would be
to much in the open for most people to stomach).

BTW, watch for the gun bans to come since we'll have to "harmonize" first
with our border neighbors in the NAU then with the Euros across the pond.

 

[Chui]

This is "The Plan" that has been formulated and more or less discussed in Foreign Affairs and while I was at GaTech I would read the Trilateralist's Triangle Papers at Emory University. I read FA diligently as they "show" their hand if you know what to look for. Sounds like you do, TBL. Thumbs up to ya!

Central Banks, if they will fall under the Rothschilds and the European fondi are a horrible idea. I don't think anything is beyond corruption. If they levers of the Central Bank were firmly in Congress' hands and we had true statesmen at the helm (which would require a learned populace) all would be fine. A bit optimistic? Perhaps so. If each bank coined it's own money (bi-metallic gold & silver coin) there would be much room for counterfeiting. The Dept of Treasury could do the job with the existing mints so you're correct in that a Central Bank would be superfluous. Good call, Glock Glocker.

AntiqueCollector, TBL, Glock Glocker, I think we all agree that we've "done a 180" in this nation. The challenging thing is how do we awaken enough before it's too late?

 

[Ratzinger_p38]

This first week of May has been really interesting, huh? In any case, mark 2015
on your calendars....maybe we'll see the NAU followed by the North Atlantic
Economic Community (at least in practice if not in name since that would be
to much in the open for most people to stomach).

BTW, watch for the gun bans to come since we'll have to "harmonize" first
with our border neighbors in the NAU then with the Euros across the pond.

THis is one conspiracy theory I am not sure I agree with. Sure, we have NAFTA, and a similar things started the EU in europe. But there are things the US does that breaks this. First off, keep in mind we keep out of things like the kangaroo court the 'International Criminal Court' - although Bill Clinton signed it, he basically replied 'we wont ratify it till they fix it for our needs'. Bush hasnt bothered even with that. This is a good thing, we want to protect our sovereignty. This doesnt sound like we're cooperating with the whole one world government theory - I imagine there would be similar resistance in South America where the 'big two' countries Argentina and Brazil have a long rivalry.

But on the flip side of the coin, you do have to wonder why Bush, supposedly a conservative, seems to care zilch about the border problem. Sure he does a photo-op with border patrol, but is that it?

Calls to forge a common currency have died down since. ADB President Haruhiko Kuroda in January said he isn't confident exchange rates can be coordinated even after an Asean economic community, targeted for 2015, has been established.

There would be huge resistance to this, considering relations between China and Japan are at a very low level. Would you want to have a common currency with the world's most authoritarian regime?

BTW, watch for the gun bans to come since we'll have to "harmonize" first
with our border neighbors in the NAU then with the Euros across the pond

Yes, and this is how this relates to firearms. You have to wonder if the EU's more gun friendly countries like Finland and the Czech Republic will be affected by this. The EU holdout Norway is possible to own machine guns (no new ones, most people who do have them have captured German ones like MP40s)...but who knows how much longer the 4 holdout countries will continue (Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Lichtenstein)

 

[Chui]

Well, the international banksters are the ones pushing for this; them and their bought and paid for politicians and the ivory towers. Authoritarianism runs rampant in the elite. It always has and I see no reason for it to cease now that we're in the 21st century.

 

[freakazoid]

Communist nations take out that risk and everyone is a little serf to the government.

Again, there is no such thing as a communist government.

None of the Satanic Monsters that you faun over had anything poor to say of the Elite.

Again, they can not be Satanists since they were athiests. And I do not "faun" over them. The person that I look up to most is Jesus, a far cry from a Satanist.

There are too many armed & aware people to allow your "anarchy" to succeed.

Anarchy is freedom from government, is that really bad? Freedom from these stupid laws that they keep on making up. Anarchy is liberty.

You must love the neo-Trotskyiites (Neo-Cons)....

And I am not a Trot. I am an anarchist, more exactly I am a Christian Anarchist.

Can you point me to any countries that are actually communist so I can compare them to other systems? It seems that the classless and stateless society never quite comes around after the dictatorship of the proletariat is formed. Communism, in the form that you're speaking about, does not exist, why discuss communism any more than discussing the economic system in Valhalla?

Because it is something to be gained. It is like when Americas founding fathers discussed the kind of freedom that they wished to see here. It didn't exist yet but it is what they believed was right.

 

[Glock Glockler]

freakazoid,

Suppose I am an engineer and I want to design something, before I actually get down the building I begin with a model of what I want to accomplish. Since this elusive thing called "communism" doesnt actually exist in reality having a discussion about it is nothing more than mental masturbation. I deal in reality, thanks but no thanks.

Chui,

As far as taking the country back the immediate thing to do would be to form a loose alliance with various groups based on mutual opposition to the nonsense being rammed down our throats so the enemy can't gain any more ground, hopefully educating the various fringes in the process so that a stronger core may be attained. The long range thing would be to seize control of the education systems from govt. control, so long as they possess them they will produce apathetic and non-thinking govt worshippers. The people are essentially the foundation that any govt is built on and with a rotten foundation you know what the outcome will be.

 

[Nanook]

I think every American should take a trip to a formerly socialist country, and take a good look at the fruit that that tree bears.

How about a currently socialist one? I live in Illinois, which is controlled by a socialist government operating out of Chicago.

And I've worked in New Jersey.

All kidding aside, there is a lot of truth in the post about the Midwest being socialist already. Scary stuff.

 

[Thin Black Line]

All kidding aside, there is a lot of truth in the post about the Midwest being socialist already.

The statement means you must be from the Midwest to understand that
the entire country is already socialist. It means if you live in CA or NJ
that you don't know that it is....

 

[DRZinn]

Can anyone - ANYONE AT ALL - explain to me just how capitalism exploits the workers?

I think that workers do not need a manager, they can manage themselves.

I'm just going to let that one twist slowly in the breeze.

Who can argue that government should not meddle with the economy at all?

<raises hand, waves it wildly about>ME! ME! I'LL DO IT!!!

 

[USSR]

Guys,

You're arguing with a Troll. Do a search on freakazoid's posts. Nothing shooting related, he!!, he probably is too young to own a gun.

Don

 

[DRZinn]

Trolls, by definition, don't stick around and keep arguing. Give him that much credit, at least.