Midway's Printed Flyer Prices Not Honored

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munk

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I went to order a Christmas splash of reloading components from Midway today, and included were two boxes of 500 count 41 and 45 cal bullets from Oregon Trail. The prices listed were the same for two months running- November's and Decembe's flyers, 46.99 for the 45 cal 250 grainers. "Nope," The sales clerk on the phone told me, "those prices aren't valid. It's now 73 dollars. Metal prices just keep climbing. Now, if you'd ordered a sales price, I'd give it to you- but those are our regular prices."

The letterhead on flyer 246 states: "Sales prices and Promotions valid through Dec 31, 2007."

Are not the items in the flyer promotions? They are products being promoted through the flyer?

I ordered 130 bucks worth of other stuff, and then sent Midway this letter:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Dear Midway;

I've liked you since you arrived many years ago. I've purchased from you from the beginning of my own shooting sports needs, through 3 different states and 4 home addresses.

You sent a flyer to my door a couple days ago- the one covering December. "Sale prices and promotions valid November 25th to December 31, 2007" Source code 101389---

I attempted to order two boxes of bullets from Oregon Trail. They were:
214-898 41.99 500 ct
950-422 or 655-558: 46.99 500 ct

I was informed those prices were no good. They were same prices reported in flyer 245 Your representative said metal prices kept going up and those prices were not accurate, that you ordered the catalogues printed months in advance.

Step back and look at this for a moment. You send a flyer to my door but will not honor the prices listed, even though the flyer is current? What impression does that leave? Is is my problem you order printing done months beforehand? What has that to do with me?

I'm sorry. I dont pick fights, but this is simply unreasonable. I could understand this happening if you printed a master cat., for instance, but not a monthly sales flyer. Do you think the customer really distinguishes between 'sales' item and regular prices? Are not every thing in the flyers being 'promoted', and does not your letterhead state promotional prices valid through the end of the month?

I've recently returned to reloading. I figured I'd go to Midway first. You really have been a wonderful place to do business with. But this gives the wrong impression of your business ethics.

I'm sorry, but this tarnishes your reputation with me.
Don't print the prices if you'll not honor them, Please! It only makes sense.

thank you,
Brad Munk"

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Does anyone else think it unreasonable to send a paper flier to one's home with prices that will not be honored by the company?


munk
 
Midway's response:

Dear Brad,

Thanks for your email.

We lay our flyers out 90 days in advance of their distribution. It's common practice in the industry for us to be contracted with our vendors to minimum price levels THEY set in order for them to be fair with the broad range of their retailers.

Oregon Trail had a significant price increase within the last 30 days, well after we'd committed to print our current flyer. We apologize for the prices being out of date. However, the worldwide price of lead has approximately doubled in the last two years due to increased demand from overseas (notably China and India) and Oregon trail was forced to set prices for both the current price of lead AND their anticipated increased prices of raw material for 2008. If you go here:

http://www.laser-cast.com/45Cal.html

you'll see their current price is $69.25. You're welcome to verify this situation with Oregon Trail at 800-811-0548.

We're sorry for the inconvenience and the price increase but unfortunately our hands are tied.

Please let us know if we can be of further help.

Sincerely,
Br-----
Customer Service
MidwayUSA

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I thought I saved my response but didnt'!! Darn! Anyway, I wrote back that their behavior no doubt was legal, but that some behaviors though legal are not the same as good business practises. I said since they have no problem with this business practise, they'd have no problem with me printing the story of their policy on well known firearms related forums.
I urged them to stop advertising prices that are not honored, in fact, are printed with the understanding they'll not be honored.
I also noted Oregon Trail's price of 69 included shipping while their price of 73 did not.

munk
 
In the flyer it says "prices may change at any time." Pg 24, under "prices. Policies, Terms". Yes it sucks but it looks like they have their backside covered.
 
Page 24 of the flyer clearly says:
Prices, Policies and Terms
Prices, specifications and availability are subject to change without notice.

Prices go up from suppliers and printed material has longs lead times. It may suck, but that's the way it is. There's not much Midway can do it about, unless you'd prefer they never print any of their prices or stop sending out flyers altogether. Unless you want a flyer that is full of "Call for current price!" on every single item, these things are going to happen. It seems kind of silly to expect Midway to take eat the difference every time a supplier increases the prices.

However, you'd free to take your business elsewhere. It just seems like a pretty trivial issue since we all know that component prices are skyrocketing.
 
This is what I wrote back:

Yes, but what Oregon Trail charges is not the issue,
the issue is your advertising a price you'll not
honor.
(I note Oregon Trails price of 69 dollars includes
shipping, bte, while your price of 73 does not. btw)


I've posted my letter to you on several firearms
related forums. If you're happy with this as a
business practise you'll find no difficulty knowing
this information is made available to the public.

Think- you send out a flyer and say; "Sale prices and
Promotions valid November 25th - December 31."

If you cannot honor the printed prices post instead
'call for price."

I'm disapointed you cannot see the inconsistancy in
printing one price and then backing out. Do not print
prices you will not honor.

I'm certain you've done nothing illegal.
Unfortunately, the decision to do business with Midway
is based upon Midway's behavior. There are many
behaviors legal that are inconsistant with good
business practises.

I remain disapointed. Please refrain from promoting
prices you will not honor. It only makes sense.

Brad

>>>>>>>>>>

I really am disapointed. I LIKED Midway. They helped the fight for firearms freedoms. They were/are a decent source for materials. Their heart is often in the right place. They do a great job- until this.
I hope they look at this and see something inconsistant with a high standard approach to commerce.

munk
 
I'll bet that your home state has a "weights and measures" agency (although it might be called something different) that would be interested to hear of this blatant example of false advertising, as would Midway's home state. If you'd prefer not to get all legal on them, a complaint to the BBB might be in order.

In my home state, you cannot advertise something at price A and then try to sell it at price B. Flat-out illegal. I'm fairly sure that's a nationwide standard. If a store clerk mistakenly puts a $1.29 sticker on a box of .45 hollowpoints, then that's what they have to be sold for. Agents here even go around and test store's scanning accuracy.

A.
 
Strat81- that site lists bullets from midstate and Bushwhacker- which is best and are these cast bullets suitable for driving at top velocities or are they practise rounds only?

thanks,

munk
 
Jorg; Page 24 of the flyer clearly says:
Prices, Policies and Terms
Prices, specifications and availability are subject to change without notice.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yep, I figured they were safe. But think- they've been advertising the wrong price for issue after issue of the flyer. That sound right to anyone?

It remains the kind of issue that is unseemly in a company of Midway's stature. I liked Midway. I do not like this behavior. This is not the behavior of a partner in the shooting sports.
This reminds me of used car salesman behavior.


munk
 
Not sure, munk. The price I quoted was the Midstate brand. I only shoot jacketed bullets, so I can't say if they're good at high velocities. Check over in the THR reloading forum, lotsa smart guys there. :)
 
Yep, I figured they were safe. But think- they've been advertising the wrong price for issue after issue of the flyer. That sound right to anyone?
Click to expand...

Makes sense to me. Midway says they do up the 90 days in advance. So, that means the November flyer was done up by the end of July and the December one was done by the end of August. Midway says, "Oregon Trail had a significant price increase within the last 30 days." As you may notice, the last 30 days is substantially after the end of August.
 
Then they should send out their monthly catalogs with, "Prices subject to change" and not,"Good through __/__/__".
 
Products with wildly fluctuating prices should be advertised that way. "Prices subject to change- call for current quote."

The clerk said metal prices have gone up for a year. Has Midway been advertising the same old way for a year, listing prices it had no intention of honoring?

It may be legal, but it does not meet the open hand test.

munk
 
Perhaps they should just switch their ammo and components to call-for-price. If they're fairly certain (and how could they not be?) that prices will change before their flyers are slated to be sent out, why would they continue to advertise a set price? Customers would now be required to call and confirm the advertised price for any given ammo or components anyway.

Makes no sense to me at all. Ammo and components are extremely volatile right now and if they are dumb enough to print up flyers three months in advance, quoting a price that will then be three months old by the time they ship out, they should honor those prices.
 
I'm probably going to have to side with midway on this one although perhaps they would be better served by not printing the prices on such goods and direct people to call or check the website for a current quote.

if you were in midway's position and stated that prices on ammo were subject to change with the market (all of us know the ride we're taking on ammo price), would you eat the loss and sell below your cost just because?
 
Midway is a good resource for tools, but not for components. Don't buy components from them.

A good bullet company, IMO, is MasterCast.
http://www.mastercastbullets.com/home.html

I just ordered 4000 bullets... 357/45/44-200gr/44-240gr and with shipping it came out to $256. It'll keep me shooting all year. Shipping was only $18 for about 120 pounds of product.

It isn't lead prices folks. It's gouging.
 
I'm probably going to have to side with midway on this one although perhaps they would be better served by not printing the prices on such goods and direct people to call or check the website for a current quote.
Click to expand...
+1. With the lead time on print ads compared to the Dow-Jones-like fluctuating ammo prices it's not a good idea to print prices and say good until such and such a date unless they ARE trying to bait and switch. I've had good experiences with them thus far.
That's why I tend to gravitate towards vendor's websites since print ads are often out of date by the time they hit your mailbox (or sold out if it's a smokin deal). Print ads= bathroom readin' :)
 
Wondering if Oregon Trail notified Midway of their upcoming price increase, or just sprung it on them? I'll bet they sprung after all the catalogs were already dry. What is Midway to do?

Of all the companies in the world, Midway has been stellar in honesty, customer service and going the extra mile to make sure they do things right. I'll wager right now that the catalogs going to print at this moment have the problems taken care of and this situation will not happen in the future.

Come on Munk! Can we give them a little break and apply some understanding here? They do the best that they can....and do it better than most....and are a valuable resource for all of us gun folk.

I always deal on-line with them and have never had a problem as the prices and availability have no lead times and are kept up to date.
 
Am I the only one who sees the irony in lead prices being driven up by demand from China? I don't like it but I believe Midway was covered in this.
 
It doesn't pass the smell test. If lead prices are so unstable you can't predict the prices of your bullets, don't advertise bullet prices! Put something else in the flyer.

Oh, and I'll second the recommendation for http://www.mastercastbullets.com. I mostly cast my own bullets now, but the bullets and the service I've gotten there have been superb.
 
The defense of Midway is based upon the fact that market prices flutuated wildly, they book printing of catalogues in advance to save money, ( a sound business practise) and therefore cannot be held responsable for printed prices being so out of whack to actual prices.

They've known for over a year that metals prices are flutuating upwards wildly, yet continued to use the same old advertising approach usefull for a relatively stable product? No one working at Midway could stop and say, "Gee, this is going to make us look Unseemly." ???

We're not talking about 2 bucks more a box, we're talking 46 to 73 dollars.

No, one can defend Midway with the 'way it's always been' but that doesn't cut it. For a whole year they've booked prices they knew beforehand would not remain stable but continued anyway?

Dumb. "Market price fluctuating daily- we try to get you lowest price in field, call for quote," should have been the byline for ammo and components a year ago.

They did not change their advertising to reflect the market. The result is their appearing shabby. It does not matter if there is some logic behind how this happened. It should not have happened. Same old same old advertising should not have been retained for any products known to be changing on a daily basis.

munk
 
REcoil Rob- I like Midway. They made a real mistake and are falling back upon 'the way it is'. They failed. Not recognising this is a problem. They continued to advertise prices, probably for a year, they knew before each printing where no longer valid.


There was no one in Midway who could realize this would make them look shabby? Just continue the same old advertising approach, huh?

Sorry, they get credit where credit is due- like the NRA round up program, and an accurate assessment of failure.


munk
 
They should have just given them at the advertised price to keep a loyal Customer. Probably still would have made some profit.
 
I'm going to side with Midway here too. "Prices good through -" is completely appropriate since most of the items Midway sells are not subject to the volatility of the markets like lead/brass/copper/zinc are, prices on those items are expected to remain stable. That would also include sales, which the rep said they would have honored had it been the case.

It isn't lead prices folks. It's gouging.
Click to expand...
take a look at the price of lead over the last 2 years and tell me its not a factor.
 
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