Need help. serial # for Colt 1911-A1

[silent one]

Does anyone know if Colt C prefix serial numbers ended at the C 215xxx range, or did the numbers go higher?. Also were their any other contractors who used the C prefix in their serial numbers?
Thanks, I appreciate any help you can give me.
Good luck, and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[Dr.Rob]

According to RL Wilson the C prefix ends in 1950, between 240001 and 240227.

240228C is the next #, the C moves to a suffix.

C is for commercial models ONLY. Military models don't have the C prefix unless it's a national match version, in which case it's all Colt.

 

[Old Fuff]

The "C" prefix was intended for commercial models, but when Colt suspended production of commercial guns in early 1942 at serial number C 215087 a few might have been sold to the government. They did buy 6,575 commercial pistols that were supposed to have the "C" numbers removed and then renumbered in the military series, but it's possible something slipped by. Commercial production resumed in October, 1946 at serial number C 220001. The "C" prefix was used until 1949 and ended at C 240287. The "C" then became a suffix starting at 240288-C and continued until June, 1970 when the series ended at 336169-C.

 

[silent one]

Dr. Rob and Old Fuff,
Thank you both for taking the time to help. Old Fuffs' answer seems to be more applicable as to why I asked the original question. You stated the last commercial pistol was produced in 1942 with the serial number C 215087, and started again in 1946 with the serial number C 220001. You also state that Colt sold 6,575 commercial pistols to the government to be converted and be renumbered in the military series. Have you either seen or heard of any commercial numbered pistols with a number between C215087 and C220001?
Thanks again, this has peaked my curiosity.
Good luck,and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[Old Fuff]

The answer to your question would take some careful research. Suposedly Colt transfered all of the remaining commercial Government Model pistols to military contracts after removing the civilian serial numbers and then renumbering the frames.

However, when it come to what Colt did or didn't do, "never say never." I'm pretty sure there were frames in the factory that were numbered over C 215087 and some of them might have been built into guns. If so, not many were made. It is also possible that a numbered frame walked out of the plant with a worker who took it home and then later built it into a complete pistol. However such a gun would likely not have inspector's marks that would otherwise be expected.

It is also possible that Colt found some of these frames and built them into pistols during or after 1946 when regular production was resumed.

If you have such a pistol I would contact Colt and request a factory letter. It would cost $100.00 or more, which I consider excessive. But if it confirmed that the pistol was indeed a Colt-built "wartime commercial" the increase in the gun's value would more then pay for the letter.

 

[silent one]

Old Fuff,
Thanks again for sharing your seemingly endless knowledge on this subject. I'm still trying to find out if anyone has actually seen one of these weapons. I'm having an ongoing discussion with an old friend who says '' their aren't any commercially produced .45's with a higher serial number than the ones that were produced by Colt. I say anything is possible, and there could be some with higher numbers out there. That's why I posed the question.
Thanks again, and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[Old Fuff]

He is probably right. Colt has produced more COMMERCIAL Government Model pistols then anyone else. However they have been numbered in different serial number series over the years. Until recently, say in the last 40 years or so, no one except Colt made commercial models, so they had a long run-up on all of the others since they started in 1912.

Military production is another matter. U.S 1911 and 1911-A1 pistols were made by different contractors, starting with Springfield Arsenal before World War One. During that war, and the Second World War a number of different contractors made the pistol in greater quantites then Colt during the same time period. Part of the reason is that Colt also made machine guns.

 

[silent one]

Old Fuff,
I may have misled you. The numbers I was referring to were numbers between C 215087 when Colt ended the commercial numbers in 1942, and the C 220001 when Colt started the commercial numbers again in 1946. In other words could their hypothetically be numbers in the C 216xxx, C 217xxx, C 218xxx and so on up to the C 220001 still out there. My friend says there aren't any. I say there must be. I personally haven't seen one. I was just wondering if anyone else had.
Thanks again for your help. The quest goes on.
good luck, and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[Old Fuff]

No, you didn't mislead me. In theory Colt jumped over the numbers between C 215087 and C 220001. However in practice this might not be true. Frames were numbered before they were assembled into guns and I have no doubt that some were around in 1942 that were over C215087.

Some of these had the commercial number ground off and renumbered in a military series. But nowhere is it written that this happened to all of the commercial frames on hand - maybe yes, maybe no. We know that small lots of different models were assembled during the war using previously made parts. In theory the same could have been done with Government Model pistols. Following World War Two Colt made several hundred Single Action Army revolvers using "on-hand" parts and serial numbered them in the original series, even though the SAA was officially discontinued.

So, like I said before, never say never. They're may be a few guns out there with numbers over C215087 and under C 220001, but they'd be mighty few --- I think.

 

[silent one]

Old Fuff,
Once again, thank you. Also I would like to apologize for being a pain in the a#@ on this subject, but it has gotten the best of me. Maybe I should just put it to sleep, but the question will still be floating around in the back of my mind. It may be one of those things that will cause us to say''hmmmm, I wonder''.
good luck, and be safe.


SILENT ONE

 

[AlexanderA]

I'm going to resurrect this old thread, because it's relevant to a question I have. I have a Colt Commercial M1911A1 with serial number C217xxx, which would indicate 1942 production, except that the charts say that Colt stopped commercial production at serial C215xxx, and didn't resume again until 1946, with serial number C22xxxx. Some 6,000+ commercial guns above C215xxx were produced in 1942, but were turned over to the government, had their commercial serials obliterated, and were restamped with military numbers. Could mine have slipped through the cracks? (It might be relevant to note that when I got it, in 1967, it had a National Match barrel, bushing, and slide. It's since been "corrected" to the proper Government Model slide.)

 

[Old Fuff]

I need another clue...

Without taking the time to look up the dates, during the late 1930's, Colt added a firing pin safety to their Government Model .38 Super and .45 pistols. They tried to sell the feature to Uncle Sam's Army, but got turned down.

They also tried to sell the Brazilian Government on the idea, but also got turned down.

So for a short period they made commercial frames with the necessary machine cuts for the safety, on C-numbered frames they planed to use on pistols intended for the commercial market.

But they also made some frames without the cuts, that had C-numbers, to fill orders from Brazil.

So take off the slide and see if there are some unusual slots in the frame in the general area of the disconector hole.

 

[AlexanderA]

So take off the slide and see if there are some unusual slots in the frame in the general area of the disconector hole.

OK, I did this, and here's what I found -- there's no machining for the Swartz safety. I compared the frame to a Remington-Rand GI pistol, and there's no difference in the machining. There are no visible markings whatever on the frame, except for the "C2171xx" serial number on the right side just above the trigger. No visible inspectors' stamps. There's evidence that the frame rails were built up by welding (to tighten them to the slide), and there's also evidence that the frame was refinished by Parkerizing. This tells me that this frame was the basis for building a target pistol (before I got it), using a non-matching National Match barrel, National Match bushing, and Remington-Rand slide with target sights. What I have on it now is a "Colt Government Model" slide, Parkerized, with regular sights.

 

[Old Fuff]

Trying to pin down specifics on Colt Government Model pistols made between 1940 and 1946 can be dificult at best, because some strange things happened, especially between Jan. 42 and Dec. 43. Suposedly all commercial frames made just prior to the war were machined to use the safety, with the only exceptions being those with C-numbers made to fill Brazilian military contracts.

If you want to know exactly what it is, you may have to have it lettered by Colt, and that's expensive.

My best speculation is that it went to Brazil, or possibly Argentina during 1942. Later the surplus pistol was re-imported into the United States, and when the original slide was changed for a different one it lost it's identity.

While Colt apparently ended pre-war commercial production at serial number C 215,xxx This doesn't mean they didn't have some higher numbered frames put away to fill exsisting orders from South America.