New Mexico Muzzy hunts 3 of 3!

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First off, my brother in law does it once more! Lucky bastard to put it nicely.

We all had HOT hunts in the low to mid 80's and on day 4, he spotted a small 2x2 and 3x3 and was putting on a stalk to fill his tag when out of the thick sunflowers, this guy and another smaller buck jumped up and trotted off. He said it was like a picture I have on my wall where a muley is turned sideways looking back, its called "Fatal Pause". He said the buck that that pose and he let his Traditions Strikerfire roar and send a 250gr Thor bullet powdered by 100gr Blackhorn209 and a CCI primer fly. The bullet impacted just under the spine and the buck dropped like a stone. He had my nephew call us as we were hunting a different unit and so we had to pack up the Jeep and hightail it to his area so we could help pull it back to the road. The buck measured 27 3/4" wide and is a 5x7. He has 2 kickers on the back of his rack that are hard to see in the pictures.

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It was quite a long drag without my game cart LOL. Hey, I had NO room in that jeep.
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On day 6, my chance had arrivied! A rainy, cool,foggy season had finally come and set into the higher mountains and while we all made a slower circular course through a high mountain park, we were jumping tons of doe left and right. An area and that contains two ponds, my brother in law spotted this one at over 200 yards and all you could see was his head and neck. We debated for a while about what to do and finally I just said to hell with it, Im going after it. I kissed the dirt as much as I could and slowly made my way over rock, through brush and at one point, all I could see was his head and nothing else. I just kept the wind in my favor as much as I could. At one point however he must have got wind of me and he spooked into some thick oak brush. As I was stalking around that, I saw him trot off back into the field we originally saw him in. I circled back just as he came to a stop, Most likely from spotting John and Robert on the hill. I looked through my scope to make sure he was a fork at least on one side, leveled my CVA Accura V2 that was loaded with 110gr Jim Shockeys Gold Super Powder and a 338gr Powerbelt Platinum and stroked the trigger. Out of the corner of the scope I saw the buck just get hammered and dropped. After the shot, All I heard was John and Robert screaming their heads off because they couldn't see me and when I fired, all they rear was the huge roar and watched the deer drop. My brother in law said it was like someone reached out and just smacked that deer off his feet. Meat will always taste better than horns!
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Now Robert is one hell of a lucky guy! He had to wait till day 7, the final day of the hunt and the last 30 minutes of the hunt! A huge fog storm moved in and it was so thick, we actually drove through a small town without knowing it until about a mile down the road where our turn off was! He got this buck in the same area as I got mine, only on the other side of the pond. We started off following the same route we took on my hunt and after seeing only a few doe, I wanted to take him to a burned out section of the forest where smaller oak brush grew and where I knew deer holed up. Along the way, we came out into a clearing, on the edge of some tall pine trees. I saw a white and black rear end, I told Robert to hold up. I looked through his scope to see what it was as I had forgotten my binoculars in the jeep which was at home. I saw a single antler with no fork and figured, crap! Its just a forkie! We slowly crept up to 131 yards and while I was looking at him, he turned his head while graving and I finally saw the forked antler!

I set Robert up on the Sling Stix, but he was shaking to bad and couldn't get the shot off. He had a big flat boulder by him so he through the rifle on top of that and got settled in. Sadly a doe that we didn't see, caught us and took off. The buck looked at her and then turned back to look at us. I told Robert (PG13 version) Shoot it already before he spooks! He cocked the hammer, I told him to put his finger low on the trigger so its lighter ( He always pulls from the top of it) and I heard him take a few breaths before the CVA Wolf cracked loudly and at the sound of the shot, the deer dropped! Due to the angle the deer was looking, it impacted the neck and went into the spine of the deer.
Robert is a first time big game hunter. He had been coming over during the sumemr months so I could help get him set up and practice loading, reloading and shooting off the bench and from a sitting down position. He did a hell of a job on this hunt and stuck it out and finally got his first ever, big game animal!
He used my nephews CVA Wolf with a KonusPro 3-10x44 scope set on 6x to help take some of the "wiggle" out. He also used 80 grains Blackhorn209, yellow Traditions sabot and a 260gr Harvester Scorpion PT Gold, CCI 209M primer.
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Looks good. I'm not a fan of inline muzzleloaders. They are just a way to take advantage of the extended muzzleloading season IMHO, but if it puts game on the table than it's not a bad thing. Those will make some nice jerky and sausages!!! :D
 
I gotta agree with Cooldill...nice animals and a good hunt, but now do it with a primitive muzzleloader with real black powder and make it a hunt to remember. Sidelocks are the real muzzleloaders!!
 
Technology is not always a friend

What I see here is the relentless march of technology offering high tech shortcuts in order to take advantage of hunts created for primitive weapons. The same thing has happened to how hunting. Archery only seasons were created for bows that were little more than a stick and a string. Bows nowadays are handheld crossbows...a shame at best. Please urge your legislator, fish and game folks to push for regulations that require bp weapons closely resemble the fingers and percussion guns we love. That being said, I don't have any problem with inline guns being used during regular rifle seasons, that's what they are!
 
Never could understand the mentality of the traditionalist, how exactly is an inline more powerful than a sidelock given the same load and bullet?
To me it is more simplistic to clean and operate but why should that get under anyone's skin?
 
Never could understand the mentality of the traditionalist, how exactly is an inline more powerful than a sidelock given the same load and bullet?
To me it is more simplistic to clean and operate but why should that get under anyone's skin?
I completely understand the traditionalist. When inlines with scopes, shooting saboted bullets and using closed, weatherproof ignition systems are in the field, it is different from shooting a flinter or cap and ball gun with patched round ball and open sights. If nothing else, the perception (and sales pitches by gun makers) that the inlines are superior end up with trimmed ML seasons. Archery and ML seasons should be traditional (recurve or flat bow, traditional ML with patched round ball), at least in my hardheaded opinion.
 
Why do people use microwave ovens or digital cameras? I understand the market although I don't own an inline and probably never will. I also don't hunt but if I did it would probably be with one of my old warhorses. To each his own, although I think the sense of accomplishment is far greater using old style methods and tools. It is in my life anyway. ;) My 200 year old broad hatchet cuts kindling much better than my 1960's model hatchet. :D

But, having said all of that congratulations for the patience, skill, and commitment to harvest your game using black powder in any form!!!
 
if you have poor ignition in foul weather with a cap lock, you should take a better look into what you are doing wrong IMO. Inlines have a weak spot. Sabots and conicals do not completely seal the powder off like a patched ball does. Important to cover that muzzle up in foul weather.

In my sidelock, i find it important to wrap the nipple threads with teflon tape to prevent moisture from leaking through the drum/nipple threads and soaking the charge. An ear plug goes over the end of the nipple when its not capped to help keep moisture out.

Anyone that has shot a flintlock or a cap lock for a good long while knows they can be just as reliable as any other rifle out there. It is after all, the flintlock guys that make claims that their flintlock fires faster than cap locks.
 
Great story line and same with the photo's!! About the inline vs sidelock debate, I drive a truck, I've always driven a truck and expect to drive one till I die or my driving privileges are revoked, however some people like a Volkswagon and will always drive one of those. Both will get you to the same place in the same relative comfort, so let's just leave the ML choice also as personal taste. I ONLY shoot a sidelock, (T/C Renegade), because it keeps me in touch with the past, it's dependable, accurate and has made meat. On the other hand, the inline is a modern edition of the same long gun and for some folks, it's more reminiscent of the rifles they were brought up with. Both can be scoped and both have limitations for reliability so personally I believe either capture the spirit of black powder hunting. However a wooden stocked sidelock is hands down prettier and has "heirloom" written all over it, not so with a plastic, camo colored, stocked rifle. There in lies the major difference between the two in my opinion.
 
While it's clear that the OP has utilized scoped inline rifles the same can be done with traditional styles. Sabots and pellets can also be used in either style. There is a legitimate argument for the pro and con of the above but I still have yet to see a legitimate claim that one style out performs the other simply due to the ignition systems design and orientation aside from possibly reliability and isn't that what we all want?
 
i was going to use my 58 hawken but with the time line and new powder i had on hand, just no time to get dialed in with a new powder and work up loads.

I think some may have basically said the hunt was easy due to the inlines and thats why we got all 3 tags filled. HA! if thats the case, we hunted 5 days in 80* weather before a cold front moved in. Robert is a first time hunter and got his on the last day with 30 minutes of legal shooting light left.
 
Not a fan of Inlines either..or bows with training wheels. So, in that light, I prefer to have a primitive weapons season instead of a muzzleloader season. I have no problem with a percussion cap on a side lock, but like the idea of some states like PA. who (not sure if they still do) require a flintlock be used in muzzle loading gun season.
 
Interesting debate. Is it in the future that BP weapons will have the same designate as modern weaponry due to the advancements? Is there a line not to cross? It would not matter if there were as there is nothing to stop such advancement. A microwave and a smoker both will cook your meal. One is not allowed in the BBQ contests. If I were to draw my own line it would be a time line. Or nothing BP can be used that was not being used at a certain time in e history. If I need to feed my family, anything goes. Otherwise, I would use one of my very modern rifles, optics and ammo to insure the most ethical treatment of the animal. Sans my cannons all I own works with flint. I'd never hunt with it but I would hate for it to loose its tradition due to technological advancements. I also believe that in this debate there is an underlying thread of pride. A pride of the historical preservation of the art and science of the BP weaponry of the day. I doubt there are civil war recreationist that support technologically advanced BP weapons. That's just my.02
 
Colorado doesn't allow optics, pellets, or sabots. They went through a brief ban on inlines but that was pretty quickly overturned.
I've yet to see any compelling proof that an inline has any inherent benefit over a traditional one with regards to internal function.
They are ergonomically superior, and clean up much easier but aside from that I don't know that there is much difference having used both types.
So far as optics, pellets or sabots all three can also be used with traditional BP guns with pellets only having a reloading benefit, the same can be said of traditional centerfire guns in that I at times use some that have no optics, use lower velocity and energy ammo and by modern standards, inferior bullets not to mention handicapping at times by using a handgun but I don't expect to have my own personal season for handgun hunting.
 
I do believe the first inline muzzle loader was invented in New England in the early 1800's. Closely resembled a caplock without the lock on the outside. It was a long way from todays inlines with model 700 actions that use a 209 cap and modern smokeless powders. I can accept the early version but have a hard time calling the newer ones "primitive or blackpowder" guns.
 
This is my CVA Hawken .58 at 100 yards with patched round ball. Kind of makes that theory that inlines are more accurate.... kinda smell funny huh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S12L8F5uPg

This thread was not a debate, but sadly it seems, the quality of hunters has dropped on the forums lately and getting a friendly comment of congrats, looks like you all had a good time, enjoy the meat, days are long over.
 
But no one has yet shown a fundamental difference aside from aesthetics. I would compare it to the argument of a semi auto 7400 Rem or Bar (not the FA) being good guns because they have wood and are typical in the woods but an AR, M1A or FAL being bad because they have a battlefield lineage or have a synthetic stock even though they may fire the same round.
If you want to debate scopes and bullets that's fine but flint, cap, 200... you'll have to do better than that.
Same goes for the "training wheels" on bows.
 
The only thing a side lock firing round balls and an inline firing saboted bullets have in common that both are loaded from the muzzle. The inline is not a primitive rifle by any means. Kind of like comparing a hand thrown rock to a slingshot or a hand thrown spear to a long bow. Just compare the ballistics.
 
but like the idea of some states like PA. who (not sure if they still do) require a flintlock be used in muzzle loading gun season. That said, I congratulate the OP on a great hunt and being out there doing it.

Yes we still do. Flintlock only during the 2 week muzzleloading season. There is a very short 'muzzleloading' antlerless season in October where you can use an inline.

But be that as it is, good shooting Frontiergander and good hunting!!
 
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The only thing a side lock firing round balls and an inline firing saboted bullets have in common that both are loaded from the muzzle. The inline is not a primitive rifle by any means. Kind of like comparing a hand thrown rock to a slingshot or a hand thrown spear to a long bow. Just compare the ballistics.
Fire the same load in each and then what is the difference?
 
I think you should talk to your legislator and get the laws changed and quit dogging hunters who follow the laws for their season.
Maybe with diligence you can get things dialed back to smooth bore flintlock or better yet matchlock.
 
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Let's not disparage a hunter for using inlines. While I like flintlocks, I'm more inclined to take a minie gun with me if I were to hunt with one. Why? More faith in the .58 minie ball over a .58 cal round ball or a saboted 45 or 50 inline.
 
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