Permit yes/no?

[Texasgrillchef]

Thank God they did - national reciprocity is NOT thew way to go, unless you want CA, NY, NJ, DC and the rest dictating the "rules"

How else do you get them to allow non-residents to be able to carry when we visit their state?

 

[Texasgrillchef]

If I didn't have my CHCL today, would I get it, in spite of the state of Arkansas law? Yeah, probably. I don't travel out of state very often, but I'd like to have reciprocity if I did, and if I'm pulled over while driving at night, I don't really want the police officer surprised by my pistol.

I’m confused how having your CHCL will alleviate a police officer from being surprised at night when he/she pulls you over at night?

I wonder what percentage of citizens carry without a license vs getting a license in your state?
I know many in Texarkana get a license so they can cross the border into Texas and be legal.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I see a paradoxical attitude among gun owners. On the one hand, there's a justified fear of crackdowns on gun ownership, and therefore a desire not to be on record as owning a gun. Yet on the other hand, gun owners fall all over themselves to get carry permits, to register NFA items, etc. You can't have it both ways. Either you're preparing to go underground with your guns, or you're openly and proudly heading straight to the confiscation counter.

Be still my heart, something I actually agree with you on.



As to the OP, I have a CHP because I prefer to carry that way and a permit is required to do so in my state. If we had no option for CC I would be OC everyday.

Ideally I feel like we should all be able to carry either way without any "permit".

 

[Spats McGee]

How else do you get them to allow non-residents to be able to carry when we visit their state?

I'd suggest the same way DLs are recognized -- an Interstate Compact on the Carrying of Concealed Weapons. Not that the ABA is just dying to draft such a thing, but that's my suggestion.

I’m confused how having your CHCL will alleviate a police officer from being surprised at night when he/she pulls you over at night?

I phrased that poorly and am still waiting for coffee to brew. Just ignore it, please.

I wonder what percentage of citizens carry without a license vs getting a license in your state?

At this point, not that many. The statutory change was just a few years ago, so most folks that wanted to carry a pistol got their CHCLs, and all of the CHCL holders that I know (a statistically insignificant number, I realize) have opted to keep renewing.

 

[Thibaut]

I wouldn't open carry even if it was legal where I live. Personal decision based on not wanting anyone to know I have a gun on my person eliminating the element of surprise if they mess with me in a scarily dangerous manner and/or they snatch my gun from me. I went the permit route. It was somewhat of a hassle, I will admit but it is done. I hope I didn't stray from topic. If I did, forgive.

 

[bassjam]

It's been legal for me to open carry in my state since I turned 18 but I had no desire to open carry. Ohio legalized conceal carry when I was 22, and I finally got around to taking the training and getting my conceal carry license at 26.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

There should be not permit, IMO.

The bad guys aren't getting permits and the amount of control (limits/oppression) in imposes on a Constitutionally protected right is staggering.

I live in CA and I live in a county that supports CCW. Great.
That said, the Sheriff can yank my permit at any time for any reason. No due process necessary.

and many counties do not grant CCW permits at all.

If that doesn't REEK of infringement...

A right should not have a permit process.

 

[IdaD]

I don't have a permit but I don't need one where I live. Eventually I think I'll get an Idaho enhanced permit so I can carry out of state more but I haven't done it yet. As silly as it sounds, it's tough to get a whole Saturday to spend on myself.

 

[.308 Norma]

As silly as it sounds, it's tough to get a whole Saturday to spend on myself.

It's not silly. My wife and I had a hard time finding a whole Saturday to spend in an Idaho Enhanced Concealed Carry Class ourselves, and we're retired.
However, we didn't get our Idaho "enhanced" CCW licenses so we can carry out of state - the Idaho "standard" CCW licenses we'd had for years covered us for all the states we ever travel to or thru. We got the "enhanced" versions only because we still have ties with Idaho State University and end up on campus there every once in a while. As you probably already know, the Idaho "enhanced" versions are necessary for legal concealed carry on Idaho's college and university campuses.
Oh, and as you probably also already know, a CCW license makes gun purchases from an FFL dealer in Idaho go a little faster - no waiting for a phone-in background check.

 

[Styx]

This thread is NOT meant to be a debate about open carry vs conceal carry. So please do NOT debate open vs conceal.

31 states offer permitmess open carry, while 17 of those states allow permitless conceal carry as well. Which means 14 states allow permitless open carry, while requiring a permit to conceal. (I counted Oklahoma even though the law doesn’t take effect till 11/1/2019)

How many of you either do not have your permit because you can legally open carry, OR if your state allowed permitless open carry, you would open carry just to forgo the hassle of obtaining the permit to conceal?

My question is I am wondering how many just don’t bother with getting a permit since they can legally carry anyways as long as its open?

I’m in Texas, I have my LTC because it’s required for both. If it wasn’t I might not have gone through the hassle. But I also went through the trouble because I travel to other states. (For reciprocity reasons)

However Washington does NOT recognize With reciprocity the Texas license. So when I go to Washington, I am forced to carry openly because it’s the only way I can carry legally.
Are there any others that do the same or would do the same?

Again this is NOT a debate on open vs concealed. But a debate on if you would or wouldn’t based on the need of a permit, and if the state you wanted to carry in recognized your states permit or not.

My state has permitless open carry for now. There's so many gotchas and grey area that could possibly get you charged with a crime that you do not have to worry about with a carry license. Even if that wasn't true, I wouldn't open carry. I do not like or want the attention. I like to just blend in.

 

[George P]

I'd suggest the same way DLs are recognized -- an Interstate Compact on the Carrying of Concealed Weapons. Not that the ABA is just dying to draft such a thing, but that's my suggestion.


I phrased that poorly and am still waiting for coffee to brew. Just ignore it, please.

At this point, not that many. The statutory change was just a few years ago, so most folks that wanted to carry a pistol got their CHCLs, and all of the CHCL holders that I know (a statistically insignificant number, I realize) have opted to keep renewing.

So when in NYC, DC, Chicago, or similar, WHOSE rules apply? If you seriously think that locations like that will allow ANYONE from out of their jurisdiction to carry, you are suffering from serious wishful thinking - I can tell you those unicorns do not exist

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

So when in NYC, DC, Chicago, or similar, WHOSE rules apply? If you seriously think that locations like that will allow ANYONE from out of their jurisdiction to carry, you are suffering from serious wishful thinking - I can tell you those unicorns do not exist

Yup. Just like states disregard certain current federal laws, for example marijuana, the same would hold true for guns. Every current extremely anti gun state would still be a hazard to be in even with national reciprocity.

It's a pipe dream to think we'll ever be able to carry everywhere without concern.

States operating independently was not originally intended to mean disregarding the constitution, but rather within the confines.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I just find it interesting how so many people are adamant about carrying concealed yet the majority of states allow it with out a permit. Yet require a permit for concealed. There isn’t a single state that does the reverse. (Require for Open but not for concealed)

I thought this wasn't supposed to be an open carry vs. concealed carry debate.

This is what Article 2 Section 13 of the Colorado state constitution says about the right to bear arms.

Right to bear arms. The right of no person to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or in aid of the civil power when thereto legally summoned, shall be called in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice of carrying concealed weapons.

So our state constitution recognizes the right to bear arms. Open carry without a permit.

Even in Colorado Springs which is a pretty conservative town I almost never see people open carrying and the ones that I do are almost always the kind of people that are open carrying at you.

Colorado would have to amend the state constitution to ever go permitless concealed carry and as long as Denver stays Deep Blue and has more people living in it than the entire rest of the state combined I don't see that ever happening.

If I could carry concealed without a permit I would. I don't really leave the state often enough to justify needing a permit for travel.

I wouldn't open carry outside of work under any circumstances.

 

[Spats McGee]

So when in NYC, DC, Chicago, or similar, WHOSE rules apply? If you seriously think that locations like that will allow ANYONE from out of their jurisdiction to carry, you are suffering from serious wishful thinking - I can tell you those unicorns do not exist

I am well aware of the issues involved in the idea of State-level Model CC Laws. That said, unlike federally mandated national reciprocity, State-level Model CC laws do not actually require that representatives from CA, NY, MA, IL, etc. be given a voice in crafting a law that will directly affect my concealed carry.

 

[Spats McGee]

Yup. Just like states disregard certain current federal laws, for example marijuana, the same would hold true for guns. Every current extremely anti gun state would still be a hazard to be in even with national reciprocity.

I agree that the hardcore antigun states will remain hardcore antigun for as long as they're allowed to.

....States operating independently was not originally intended to mean disregarding the constitution, but rather within the confines.

If you mean the US constitution, this is incorrect. The US constitution didn't originally apply to the states, only to the federal gov't.

 

[edwardware]

Setting aside the Concealed Carry benefit of the permit (CWP in SC):
- I skip the phone call to NICS by presenting the CWP with a 4473. I must have saved 8 hours of waiting in the past decade.
- I can hand it with my ID if I'm interacting with the Police, and in my limited experience this sets the officer noticably more at ease.

Should I need it? No, but it does have some benefits.

This:

A right should not have a permit process.

 

[TRX]

My state has Constitutional carry. I had a CHCL before that, and have maintained it since it offers two additional things: recipricocity with 39 other states, and skipping the delay of the NICS check on FFL transfers.

 

[labnoti]

I see a paradoxical attitude among gun owners. On the one hand, there's a justified fear of crackdowns on gun ownership, and therefore a desire not to be on record as owning a gun. Yet on the other hand, gun owners fall all over themselves to get carry permits, to register NFA items, etc. You can't have it both ways. Either you're preparing to go underground with your guns, or you're openly and proudly heading straight to the confiscation counter.

I get your point. The truth is that permits are anti-2nd Amendment. If we require a "permission" (a permit) from the Government to exercise a right that we have prohibited the Government from infringing upon, that is certainly a paradox. I do not see concealed carry as anything but the right to keep and bear arms. Also, if we pay for a license to bear arms, we are submitting to an infringment. Certainly, if the license or permit is "may issue," we are not just paying a tax. Furthermore, we are registering ourselves as gun bearers in a Government registry.

I do have a "permit" issued by my county and good for my state and those with reciprocal agreements. In my state it is required for concealment. OC is free. In addition to permitting concealment, the permit acts like a "buyer's card" (NICS and the $25 fee are skipped for all purchases and transfers).

I have no choice unless I want to OC. Therefore, I grudgingly submit to maintaining a 2nd Amendment-infringing permit so I can lawfully conceal. If permitless concealment were made unequivocally lawful, I would discard the permit. I do suspect some "elitist" concealed carriers appreciate the permit as distinguishing themselves from the non-elite. I am not one of them.

 

[labnoti]

- I can hand it with my ID if I'm interacting with the Police, and in my limited experience this sets the officer noticably more at ease.

This is a sharp example of the permit establishing distinction for the elite. It is especially the case where presenting the permit is not requested or required by law, but the elitest presents it anyway, with the expectation that it will distinguish them.

 

[edwardware]

This is a sharp example of the permit establishing distinction for the elite.

I generally find the categories of class conflict pretty useless, and this is a good example. My 'elite' status cost me less time and money than most people spend on cable TV every week; it's not a noticable barrier to almost anyone.

I object to the CCW permit on the basis that the power to permit implies the power to deny; in SC's case, the barrier is so low that calling it 'elite' is meaningless.

Now, if you referred to an NFA Tax Stamp as an elite status item, you'd be (historically) right. The $200 tax was set so that only the very wealthy could afford it. . . we should be thankful that politicians are frequently to ignant to write efficient infringement.

 

[labnoti]

You're assuming that the elite are distinguished by wealth. That wasn't my point. In the example I pointed out, the distinction was based on "goodness" or some kind of moral virtue. Supposedly, the knowledge that the person a law enforcement officer is dealing with is a permit holder somehow assures the officer of their "goodness" and puts them at ease. Their status isn't established by wealth, but by virtue. Elite status can be established by numerous criteria besides wealth or goodness. With respect to carry permits in "may issue" states, it could be cronyism. Other people wish to establish elite status by training criteria. Establishing a distinction of elite status does not require the barrier to be especially difficult to overcome. Some people believe their elite status was simply established by birth. Really, the only requirement is that some men believe that not all men are equal, or that some are more equal than others.

 

[TikkaShooter]

Georgia now requires a permit for both open and conceal carry currently. However there is a bill pending (not dead yet) to allow full permitless open and conceal carry this making it 18 constitutional Carry states. Let’s cross our fingers.
They will still issue permits for those who travel out of state.

Add me to the hoping list...

 

[herrwalther]

I LIKE open carry law. I conceal carry, which requires a permit in AL. The reason I like legal open carry is for "in case." Shirt rides up when bending over and reveals your firearm? No big deal legally. I am against open carry as a general practice. Just look at all the companies that banned open carry in their stores in a short amount of time. If open carry is your primary means of carry, places to go just got limited.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I LIKE open carry law. I conceal carry, which requires a permit in AL. The reason I like legal open carry is for "in case." Shirt rides up when bending over and reveals your firearm? No big deal legally. I am against open carry as a general practice. Just look at all the companies that banned open carry in their stores in a short amount of time. If open carry is your primary means of carry, places to go just got limited.

The only reason stores and other establishments ban open carry is because of all the anti-gun liberal Democrats who are scared of a little ole gun. They would rather stick their head in the sand and not know who is carrying.

I believe knowledge is power. If I know who is carrying then I know who not to worry about in a mass shooting or other confrontation. On the other hand I do see the negative, meaning that if I was the criminal, I would know who to worry about first.

All in all, it’s kinda interesting though... while you have 14 states allowing permitless open carry while requiring a CC permit to CC. Yet many private establishments want to ban OC and allow CC. Goes against all logic. (In those 14 states at least)

Two of those states to conceal won’t recognize Texas or Illinois permits thus... if I go to those two states if I want to carry, I will be required to carry openly to be legal.

 

[entropy]

I live in WI, where one needs a permit to carry concealed, but not open. My response is the same as in a concurrent thread on CCW vs. open carry:

My answer to the question is I always carry concealed when I carry, even when I carry open-which is only for hunting. (To and from, and in town during the day if I go into town then; I try not to.) Because of a well publicized incident that occurred between hunters here in WI some years back, I CCW when I hunt, whether carrying a pistol openly to hunt with or not.