Pump Action as a Scout Rifle?

[Archangel14]

Some of you dear posters may have read my recent posts whereby I exclaim that I am sold on purchasing a .44 lever action for Christmas. I intend it for those "society has broken down for a few weeks" sort of scenario. I recently debated the qualities of the .44 mag versus the 30-30.

Now here's my dilemma: a poster pointed out the pump action Remingtons, which I dutifully researched. I'm now aware that I can pick up a .270 or .308 or .30-06 in an 18 inch, detachable mag pump carbine. So I say to myself: "Archangel14, why would you not consider one of these rifles for your probably never-to-happen scenario? They're compact, carry more than enough punch, inexpensive, apparently reliable? Oh, and why you're at it, why don't you consider dropping 15 pounds, you fat twinkie eating freak?"

So I lay it out on you guys.....what am I to do? Should I go with a pump in .270? That'd make a great gun for my purposes, no? I can put a flash hider on it and paint "Archangel14 Rocks" on the stock!

 

[kBob]

Remington also makes a .223 version that takes AR mags. It was designed for those police departments that were conserned that AR looked to militarisitc and threatening.

There are aftermarket mags for the bigger rifle you menationed but 10 rounds is the biggest I am aware of.

During the first Assault Weapons scare one of the gun magazine anuals or Shooters bible or gun digest carried and article about a rifle such as you meantion in .308 or .30-06 being a reasonable alternative to what the press was calling an assualt weapon. With the four round magazin in place it would be hard to call it anything but a hunting rifle, yet stick ing a 10 rouder and carry a few extra of the same and it could produce some serious "firepower" Main thing I remeber about the article was the author appeared in a photo with the rifle with half his face black and half white to illustrate the two sides of the rifle's personality. Reminded me of one of one of my least favorite Star Trek TOS episodes.


They are a bit heavy for what you get and I do not know how you would mount a LER scope on one. Perhaps a red dot as far forward on the reciever as possible rather than a LER.

-kBob

 

[jmr40]

I like the idea and was one of several that suggested you look at a pump. Only the 30-06 is offered with the shorter barrel however. You could get one of the others and have the barrel cut.

 

[Archangel14]

I forgot to mention that my local gun shop is selling an older model, wood furniture, 18 inch barrel, with a nice Burris scope, in excellent condition for $460.

That sounds like a winner boys!

 

[FSJeeper]

If someone made a decent, reliable pump action CF rifle in .308, 30-06, .270, etc. with a high cap detachable magazine rifle that was lightweight and nimble, I think it would be a total winner.

Remington is the only one I know of that makes one. I owned 2 and they both sucked on accuracy and quality. Even with the new .223 pump Remington advises is is not for heavy use and certainly not a SHTF rifle. Google it.

Unless you want to take a crap shoot on reliability and accuracy, I think you are going to be limited to a bolt or semi auto rifle.

 

[Storm]

I have a Remington 7615P in 223, the one that takes the AR mags and it is a real shooter. I stick with the iron sights as it comes stick with Wilson Combat rear peeps and an XS front. I know they offered a similar pump in 308 but with less capacity. M1 detachable mags would make for quite a weapon.

BTW, I put a Butler Creek side folding stock on mine and it makes for one very handy rifle.

 

[wyohome]

I have been shooting the 760 in this picture for 40 something years. It handles like my 870, quick to point and will shoot 1.5" groups all day

 

[henschman]

One thing to keep in mind about a pump gun for SHTF duty is that it is hard to work the action in any position in which you are resting on your support elbow... i.e. pretty much any position other than standing. Also a pump is just that much harder to use from sling-supported positions, though that might not be a very big deciding factor.

I don't understand why you are not looking at semi autos for the stated role. Do you live in a country where they are illegal or something?

 

[josiewales]

You're gonna have to stop eating twinkies soon. Not being made anymore.

 

[nipprdog]

BTW, I put a Butler Creek side folding stock on mine and it makes for one very handy rifle.

Could you please post a pic of that set up?

I've thought about getting the Choate version for my 7615P;



Thanks.

 

[Storm]

I will take some photos of the Butler Creek stock in the AM. It wasn't an easy addition. The stock that I got was for a full sized 870 and the 7615 uses the light receiver for the 20 guage. It took a good amount of fitting and some drilling that I wouldn't have wanted to attempt without a drill press. That said, Butler Creek may make a folding stock for the light receiver but it was just easier for me to do the fitting rather than a 44 mile round trip to return it only to end up with no stock. It's a pretty slick set-up for a rifle that is much more accurate than what i would have thought.

 

[mljdeckard]

I have my dad's old 760 in .257 Roberts. I love it, but I grew up with it.

A friend of ours hunted with one in 30-06. About 25 years ago, we were hunting, and he brought along an aftermarket 10-rd magazine. He missed a nice buck because it wouldn't feed. He burned it in the fire on the end of a poker. If anyone else has made such a magazine since then, I haven't heard of it.

 

[Archangel14]

Even with the new .223 pump Remington advises is is not for heavy use and certainly not a SHTF rifle. Google it.

I don't disagree, but I can't find anything reliable that states that it's not capable for such use. Do you have a link? Thanks.

 

[Archangel14]

One thing to keep in mind about a pump gun for SHTF duty is that it is hard to work the action in any position in which you are resting on your support elbow

Yeah, but my focus was on a lever action, which would present the same difficulty.

I don't understand why you are not looking at semi autos for the stated role. Do you live in a country where they are illegal or something?

No, but close to it......California. If I obtain an AR I'am limited to a 10 round magazine. Can't have a flash suppressor. Must have a "bullet button", which has fallen under scrutiny lately. Also, there's just no escaping a large mind set that the AR is an assault weapon designed to commit mayhem. For my stated purpose I don't need an AR. I was looking at the Springfield SOCOM and Squad Scout, but at about $1,500 I think they're overpriced. The reality is that a bolt action will serve my purposes. I have an old Yugo M48BO that I cleaned up, but never shot. It's a nice looking rifle with a natural "tiger stripe" in the elm stock. maybe I just need to put a few rounds through it and test its accuracy?

 

[nipprdog]

I will take some photos of the Butler Creek stock in the AM. It wasn't an easy addition. The stock that I got was for a full sized 870 and the 7615 uses the light receiver for the 20 guage. It took a good amount of fitting and some drilling that I wouldn't have wanted to attempt without a drill press. That said, Butler Creek may make a folding stock for the light receiver but it was just easier for me to do the fitting rather than a 44 mile round trip to return it only to end up with no stock. It's a pretty slick set-up for a rifle that is much more accurate than what i would have thought.

Thanks for the reply. No need to post pics now. A fellow high roader posted that if I ordered the Choate, to make sure it came with the adapter for the 20ga receiver. So, if I go that route, I'll get the Choate. Thanks, again.

And yes, its very accurate due to the fixed, free floated barrel. Here's a couple 3 shot 50yd groups with a scope mounted;





And for those that don't have one, the 7615P is rated for 5.56 NATO/.223;

 

[Reloadron]

Your previous thread has morphed into this thread. You started with debating and looking at the merits of a 30-30 cartridge and a .44 Magnum cartridge. I think it can be said that thread beat things around pretty well.

The problem as I see it and I may be wrong is that you are all over the target. You need to do some homework on cartridges and their intended purposes. Most cartridges have their good and bad points, you know that. A .44 Magnum fired even from a rifle is not really a good choice as a 300 yard cartridge for deer sized game for example. I have a Ruger .44 Magnum carbine and it is about a 100 yard rifle. That is what it was designed to be. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. You need to settle on a cartridge plain and simple. Take the great suggestions given and settle down on a cartridge that suits you.

Rifles like cartridges have good and bad points depending on an application. Bolt action, slide action, lever action and even semi-automatic all have good and bad points. You need to sit down and evaluate the individual rifles, weigh in the good and bad and then make a decision based on what works for you considering, just like the cartridge, the good advice you have been given. There is no one size fits all in rifles and cartridges which is likely why there are so many choices. Your rifle, your budget and I would combine the information provided, make a decision and move on the decision. Procrastination is not a good path to get you where you want to go.

My suggestion away from the initial thread? Buy a .308 rifle in the action of your choosing. Want just a little more? Buy a 30-06 and shoot 220 grain bullets all day. Whatever trips your trigger and meets most of your needs because there is, again, no one rifle does all.

Just My Take.........
Ron

 

[henschman]

How about a Kel Tec SU-16CA?

Or a Saiga?

Either one of those would be vastly preferable for your stated role than what you have been considering.

 

[KevininPa]

Don't worry about......

.......the fifteen pounds. Get a 7615 and slap a thirty rounder in it. By the time you rapid fire that, you get a great workout. That's why I have tens and twenties for my 7615P.

 

[snakeman]

I have a 760 in 308 and love it. However, for your intended purposes, a lever action in 30-30 really hits the mark. Also, look into the vz-58 club here and maybe look into Marlin's 336 BL or 336Y for an even more comfortable compact option.

 

[d2wing]

I feel bad for the poster that had 2 bad ones. Many long time deer hunters consider the Remington pumps very reliable and accurate.

 

[Archangel14]

Your rifle, your budget and I would combine the information provided, make a decision and move on the decision. Procrastination is not a good path to get you where you want to go.

Aww, it's not procrastination....it's just that I have a few weeks before I plan to make my purchase. And I like banging ideas around on this forum. I get great feedback and I love the banter. Me thinks you're a bit peeved at my jumping around on rifles? Don't be, it's not worth your energy. Plus, I NEVER considered a pump action in lieu of a lever gun until the idea was raised recently. It seems like a great possibility. Also, I'm kind of moving away from the .44 mag SD concept. What if I need to reach out and touch someone? I'm now thinking .270 in a pump. Why have to loop a .44 at someone 175 yards down yonder?

And one more thing....ISN'T THIS FUN?!

 

[Domino]

Nothing wrong with the pump action rifles for hunting but, I wouldn't suggest one for SHTF type use. Low cap mags kinda take away from the advantages of a detachable mag and with all the cheap bolt actions that are available I don't really see the point. I would actually perfer a nice lever action in .357 or .44 Magnum for defensive when compared to a Remington 760 in .270 or whatever. The higher capacity and lighter weight would be more suitable.

Given the limitations of California, I would seriously consider the Ruger Mini 14/30 for your purposes leaning toward the 30.

 

[snakeman]

Just so you get a good idea of all aspects of your choice I will say this:
consider these factors:
1. is the firearm in question reliable?
2. is the firearm in question light?
3. is the firearm in question accurate?
4. will this firearm overpenetrate the intended target and possibly injur the person in the house on the other side?

That last one is possibly the most important. A 223 loaded with a 55 grain vmax will take out any part it hits and those near it; and it will do so without posing as much of a threat to those innocents on the other side that you don't know are there. Know that what decision you make (and yes it should be fun as well) should be a serious one.

Now, a 7600 in 270 has the range but it will also blow right through an elk and therefore a wall.

A lever 44 will not have as much range but it can be done, it too will likely overpenetrate.

Same as above with a 30-30.

A mini 14, kel-tec, saiga, or something of that sort in 223 will meet most of those requirements and so will a pump 223. Be careful about what you choose to put in this position.

 

[Archangel14]

A mini 14, kel-tec, saiga, or something of that sort in 223 will meet most of those requirements

Don't want a mini, as they are simply less accurate than they should be. The barrels tend to heat up too quickly. Kel-tec? Really now. My buddy had an SU-16 (I think that it what is was called). He dropped it an the stock broke. Saigas are reliable rifles and fit my purpose, but it's a Saiga (yawn...). An AR? I don't get excited about the AR anymore.

I'm starting to think my Yugo M48 looks good for my purposes. One or two 8mm's down range and I imagine the bad guys would skee-dattle.

 

[henschman]

Saigas are reliable rifles and fit my purpose, but it's a Saiga (yawn...). An AR? I don't get excited about the AR anymore.

Well if it is more about your aesthetic preferences than any functional performance, I can't help you very much. Just get whatever you think is the coolest and be done with it.