San Gabriel CA Gun Club Under Fire !!

[PaladinVC]

I've gotta respect the guy who called them up and said, "Say, fella, could you stop firing that howitzer?" That takes cojones.

Otherwise, what kind of case can these people possibly have? The club's been there for 58 years! Few of the residents were alive then, and none of the houses were built. You've got to wonder if maybe they thought of the club as some kind of infestation that would eventually be pushed out by the suburban sprawl, the way those pesky forests and animals are. I hope the tenacity of the old-growth shooters holds out.

 

[BamBam-31]

Bryan Payne,

A hearty welcome to you, sir.

San Gabriel Valley Gun Club's phone number is (626) 358-9906. Dunno who you'd need to talk to, but I'd wager the folks on the other end of that line do.

Much obliged.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

Welcome to the High Road, Bryan Payne!

As BamBam-31 already stated, we go to that range almost every week. I really enjoy the range because they are very good about safety there. To answer someone's guestion from before:

Yes, there is a law specifically passed by former Governor Pete Wilson to protect shooting ranges from being forced to close, according to the Rangemaster at SGVGC as well as a radio news report. But who knows what kind of legal trickery will be tried against the range . I also heard on the radio that a guy who I believe is president of the gun club say something like "We know we are in the right, but we also want to be a good neighbor." Sounds like a smart attitude to have, and the range already limits what caliber you can shoot. .50 BMG and above is not allowed on weekends, only during the weekdays. 2 seconds between each shoot (where is this machine gun they speak of? ).

Also, every Saturday, this range reserves about 10 lanes for kids to practice their rifle shooting skills. We gotta keep SGVGC open, if only For the children!!

 

[Sheldon]

I've seen law enforcement training taking place on the small east combat range there with full auto weapons. They also do timed fire practices/qualifications there as well and it sounds like full auto with 10-20 guys basically shooting as fast as they can with a variety of weapons. These guys are obviously exempt from the 2 sec. between shots speed limit. Combat clubs also rent the combat ranges for competitions as well.

I frequent this range and it is one of the very few left that has a nice rifle range within easy driving. I hope they find a way to keep it around.

 

[c_yeager]

Coats said it's a problem that needs to be addressed. 'It's kind of like the 600-pound gorilla in the room. Everyone knows it's an issue but nobody does anything about it,' Coats said.

Wow, this guy is %100 correct. Of course its in the exact opposite manner in which he intended. These home owners think they can move into a place and THEN decide that everyone around them needs to accomodate their desires? When i move into a new place i SEARCH for an area that ALREADY offers what i want. If i valued peace and quiet i'm not moving next to a firing range. When did people start to believe that the whole world owes them a favor?

 

[Langenator]

I think the obvious solution is for the club to actually buy the land (and an easement for any access roads) that the ranges sit on. They've been there for almost 60 years, so the landlord, Vulcan, obviously isn't using the land. From the tone of Vulcan's statements, they'd probably be glad to be rid of a tenant that causes public relations issues.

Given the cost of land in the PRK, I'm sure some sort of fundraiser would be needed.

 

[BamBam-31]

When did people start to believe that the whole world owes them a favor?

Certain segments of the population have been thinking that way for as long as I can remember, unfortunately.

And guess what? When they bitch and moan enough, they often get what they want, too.

:banghead:

 

[Eskimo Jim]

I'm with the general consensus here. The range stays, the busy bodies can either move or keep themselves quiet.

Attacking gun clubs on the noise issue appears to be a new tactic used by anti-gun people. Take away places to safely use firearms, tax ammunition, over regulate it, etc and pretty soon a firearm collection will be the same as a collection of fancy looking clubs etc.

-Jim

 

[TimRB]

"I am a resident of the development and an attorney. Who do I contact to donate my time?"

Bryan, you da man!

Tim

 

[sturmruger]

This is what they are trying to pull on our range here in River Falls. The good news is WI has range protection so they can all go cry to their mommies if they don't like the sound of my SKS.

The bad part is out idiotic township board will not let us build any other out buildings. The really dumb part is we want to build another out building so that we can cut down on the noise and members will then be abel to shoot in the rain an snow. You would think that all of these bitter neighbors we have would come out to support noise preventing out buildings, but they just show up and complain about us.

 

[Eskimo Jim]

Sturm Ruger,
You might be able to fight the city or town denying you a building permit.

If you can show that the club's land is zoned for a particular use, then I believe that the town has to issue you a building permit as long as you obey the zoning and building laws.

I'd check with a lawyer, actually a couple of different lawyers to keep the first one honest.

-Jim

 

[Bryan Payne]

Here is my email to the reporter, Ms. Diana Roemer. Sorry for the lengthy post, everyone.

Dear Ms. Roemer:

Thank you very much for your well-written article. It was very informative. Unfortunately, the vehemence of the opposition to the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club was not sufficiently balanced by interviews. You presented merely tepid reactions to the opposition. Rest assured that not everyone living in Mountain Cove agrees with the complainers.

My wife and I found Mountain Cove on the way back home from a day of shooting at Burro Canyon and we thought it would be a wonderful place to live. It truly has proven to be.

We were actually informed by the builder, as well constructively informed by the sound of gunfire when we visited the site while our home was under construction. The sound is no worse than when Standard Pacific is using pneumatic hammers and powder-actuated anchors in constructing the last few homes in the development.

For a resident of Mountain Cove to say that the place sounds like a war zone is patently ridiculous, especially in a time of war.

We residents of Mountain Cove were fairly informed, and we should accommodate ourselves to the conditions that we contracted to live in. Azusa should focus on community redevelop instead of pushing out a decades-old recreational venue that attracts people with sufficient disposable income to purchase decent firearms, who spend money in our community when they come to shoot in a safe and enjoyable environment.

I cannot wait until someone complains about the traffic into the National Forest on a long weekend. The bottleneck at the ranger's station becomes an absolute trap. Are these same complainers going to ask the Forest Service to close the National Forest for their convenience? I gravely doubt it.

I hope to hear from you soon. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you would like a resident's point of view for a follow-up article. Thank you for your time and patience.

 

[Amadeus]

Go get 'em, Go get 'em!!!

Thanks, Bryan. I cannot wait to see what she says.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I'm an environmental and land use lawyer. I've dealt with noise isssues more than a few times. One constant is that people are very bad at determining how loud a noise is. I know this area and I'm guessing the actual measured noise from the range is less than the traffic and commercial enterprises near the homes. Has anyone actually measured the noise?
Might be a place to start.
-NL

 

[FRIENDLY]

range noise

I wonder what the poor dears think when there is a good thunderstorm. I suppose what bed do I hide under. Also consider stating you have a good lawyer who will sue for interesting amounts of money if you are damaged in any way

 

[Nightfall]

I'd like to quote Tamara's comments on a very similar situation elsewhere:

Hey, listen, Stephen Hawking; you should have thought about this before you built/bought a house right next door to an outdoor range. But that's okay, man, you're the star of the movie; the folks at the gun club were just sent over from central casting to add a little local color to the drama that is Your Life.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29558

 

[Bryan Payne]

Thanks, Ned. The measurement issue is a big thing. All of this is anecdotal. Here is the reporter's response. You'll all love this:

Dear Bryan: Thank you for reading, and writing. You may be surprised
to note that everyone I took the time to interview was annoyed at
some level by the gunfire despite the fact they knew it was there.
There wasn't one person .... not one .... and I drove around for
about an hour knocking on doors ... who expressed the viewpoint that
the noise isn't an irritant and perhaps the gun club should move. I
heard it for myself in fact the day I went. I did my best to get the
opposing viewpoints, going even to the gun club and getting their
defense. While I know you are right ... that there are residents who
are willing to accept it and have from the start, what I found is
that most of those who wrote to me after the article ran in defense
of the club were gun fans of some sort or another.

If the Council takes some sort of action I shall do a follow up story
... at this point I don't have another in mind but the subject merits
following.

Thanks again for writing, your viewpoint is of interest to me.

Diana Roemer

-----

Here's my response to her response:

Dear Diana:

Thank you for your very prompt response. I am indeed surprised that everyone you interviewed expressed annoyance with the sound of gunfire. I am also wondering about the time of your drive-through. Primarily, I am interested in the timing because the sound of pneumatic hammers and powder-actuated anchors used by Standard Pacific in the final stages of construction is quite similar and may be confused for gunfire by someone unfamiliar with the construction sounds. I am a registered civil engineer and construction attorney, and I have been around this sound for a decade; I understand the confusion quite well. I am building a research hospital at UCLA and some of our neighbors there have asked the same question about our construction noise.

I am a bit disturbed by your use of the term "gun fans," however. This seems vaguely biased and derogatory. For the record, I suppose I am a "gun fan" although I have never yet purchased a firearm. Those that I own I inherited from my grandfather and were given to me by my father. My wife and I have enjoyed many hours becoming familiar with these items that are a part of my family's past rather than pitching them to the nearest rubbish bin out of some misguided notion that they are relics of a less civilized time.

Rather than dismissing supporters of the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club as "gun fans," perhaps you should check the demographics of legal firearms owners before making a characterization that seems to equate us with weapon-toting criminals. For example, my wife and I have between us six university degrees, including two law degrees and an MBA. We legal firearms owners are literate, have decent incomes, and we contribute to the community and the tax base.

We also vote. We even have the temerity to run for office sometimes. If our Council takes inappropriate action against a decades-old venue dedicated to teaching firearms safety, then I will be considering both options.

Thank you so much for your limited time, as I know you are very busy. I hope you have time for further discussion on this issue.

Very Cordially,

Bryan Payne

 

[twoblink]

My friend lives up there... He says it sounds like a warzone in the daytime, but then again, reduces the chances of his house getting robbed

I like the club... been there a few times. Know a few people from there...

 

[GigaBuist]

I've lived in an apartment near an airport for something like 2.5 years. I don't notice planes really. They should be able to get used to it I'd think. It's not like people shoot at night. Planes DO fly at night.

I think I'd actually enjoy having constant gun fire off in the distance during normal waking hours. It'd help sooth my soul when watching the news. Buddy asked me why I was grinning like hell one day when we got out of the car at the gun range. My response was simply, "I love that sound."

 

[Langenator]

The comments about the range noise souding like a "war zone" made me start to think: Do these people actually have any idea what a war zone sounds like? I'm in the Army, and I don't. But I'm going to guess that there aren't loud booms from grenades, artillery, mines, bombs, and other forms of high explosive fun. No cracking of tank cannon. No squeeky squeeling of tracked vehicles in motion. You get the idea.

When I was stationed at Ft Lewis, my office was less than 500 yards from the busiest M-16/M-4 qual and zero ranges on post. You know what? If I went inside, I couldn't hear the firing, even if I left the door open.

I'm also reminded of a story that ran a couple of years ago about residents of nearby communities complaining about noise from Ft Lewis and McChord AFB, which are located just south of Tacoma, WA. When McChord was built, there wasn't much around it, and no homes under the flight paths. Today, there are, and these people complain about the jet noise. Ft Lewis was built during WWI, again, with pretty much nothing around it. For the most part, you can't hear small arms fire from off post property, but the sound of explosives can carry for miles. There was and interesting contrast between the town of Roy, the town nearest the bases' artillery impact and demolition are, which is very small and pretty much inhabited by people who've lived there their entire lives, and Yelm, which is further away, and has seen a good bit of recent growth. In Roy, the booms from the fort were regarded as just soldiers doing what soldiers do. It wasn't loud enough to scare anyone or damage hearing, so it was just another of the background noises of life in that particular place. In Yelm, people complained about the noise, calling it disturbing and bothersome.

Make of it what you will.

 

[OlgaPayne]

Noise at Mountain Cove Development

It just so happened that I was at home today at noon. I made a point of standing outside to listen for the "War zone". Guess what? It ain't there. I mean one can hear it when one is outside, but inside the house there is nothing but silence.

I think this moron and the reporter just want to get rid of all nasty guns...what is it that Charleton Heston said..."From my cold, dead hands"


If these folks want a fight, they have one

 

[P95Carry]

Welcome Olga .......

I am the other side of the country but have followed this thread ... because this stuff can occur about anywhere.

I am only adding now because I am reminded of another human anachronism ..... namely cases where people from cities and urban areas have moved into the boonies, only to complain after a while that ''it's just too quiet''.

Certainly tho .... the bottom line to me is ... if you are gonna move somewhere ... RESEARCH it properly .... and then there will be no or few major surprises! Makes sense to me.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

I've seen law enforcement training taking place on the small east combat range there with full auto weapons.

Oh yeah, now I remember the full-auto fire I hear in the distance every one in a while .

BTW, welcome to THR, Olga Payne!

Regarding the noise issue, I can't help but think of my cousin's home. It's a small gated community and the back of her house faces a major street. Having never lived on a house so close to a major street, she had no idea that when 18-wheel semi trucks drive by (and they do drive by late into the evening) the entire house can shake a bit. That's gotta be worse than guns being fired in the distance.

I wonder how much of the complaint is a disdain for the objects causing the noise (guns) and how much of it is the actual noise itself. . .

 

[Black_Talon]

I spent the first 20 years of my live living about a mile away fron the SGV Gun Club and I could hear the sound of gunfire, mostly on the weekends. I didn't even shoot back then and both of my parents are bleeding-heart liberal pacifist anti gunners who indoctrinated me from a very early age about the "evils" of firearms(I wasn't allowed to own or play with toy guns when I was young, and even had a toy revolver confiscated from me that I had just opened as a Christam gift from some clueless relitive) and even with all that brainwashing the sound of the gunfire didn't bother me at all.

A friend of mine was looking at buying one of the new houses a bit to the south of the tract that's the topic of this discussion. This was about three years ago. He found out that one of the prerequisites to purchasing a house in that tract was to sign a petition opposing the SGV Gun Club and asking for it's removal. He is a benchrest shooter and has shot at SGVGC for 30 years so he naturally disagreed with this and didn't buy one of those houses. So somewhere there's a petition with several hundred signatures on it floating around asking for the SGVGC's demise......

 

[P95Carry]

He found out that one of the prerequisites to purchasing a house in that tract was to sign a petition opposing the SGV Gun Club

Prerequisites WHAT??? Holy moley .. do the grabbers and anti's stop at nothing? (OK, I know, rhetorical question! )

Geez ...... Bryan ... did you come across that? Sounds like you didn't but hell .... I wonder how often this type of subterfuge is promulgated!