buzz meeks
Member
So I'm doing the unthinkable. I'm scoping a levergun. I'll be using a scout mount and am wondering which of the two main offerings- Leupold or Burris- is superior and why. Thanks. BTW, caliber is 45-70 if that matters.
Shopping scoutscopes: Leupold or Burris?
- Thread starter buzz meeks
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ocabj
Member
I'm eventually going to get a Leupold Scout Scope for my Czech VZ24 that I installed a B-Square scout scope mount and temporary Aimpoint Comp ML2 (was on my AR).
I was shopping around for a quality scout scope with an eye-relief of 10 inches or so. The Leupold Scout Scope, Burris Scout Scope, and a Weaver handgun scope where the only scopes that had this type of eye relief. There are handgun scopes that are cheaper than the Leupold, but most have an eye relief of 18"+.
I can tell you from a first hand basis which scout scope is better, Leupold or Burris. The only reason I decided on the Leupold was simply the Leupold name and the price difference between the two is neglible.
I like Burris though. I have a Burris 4-12x32mm compact scope on my Ruger 10/22 and the 1/8moa clicks are great for precision rimfire.
The Leupold is 2.5x while the Burris is 2.75x. The Weaver handgun scope I was looking into is:
Model: 849425
4x28mm
8-12" eye relief
Duplex reticle
It runs for about $150. I though this was an interesting option, and it offers more magnification at 4x. I've owned a Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10x40mm which was a good scope, so you may want to take a look into the Weaver, too.
Good luck in your decision. Be sure to post when you actually do make a purchase and give a range report.
I was shopping around for a quality scout scope with an eye-relief of 10 inches or so. The Leupold Scout Scope, Burris Scout Scope, and a Weaver handgun scope where the only scopes that had this type of eye relief. There are handgun scopes that are cheaper than the Leupold, but most have an eye relief of 18"+.
I can tell you from a first hand basis which scout scope is better, Leupold or Burris. The only reason I decided on the Leupold was simply the Leupold name and the price difference between the two is neglible.
I like Burris though. I have a Burris 4-12x32mm compact scope on my Ruger 10/22 and the 1/8moa clicks are great for precision rimfire.
The Leupold is 2.5x while the Burris is 2.75x. The Weaver handgun scope I was looking into is:
Model: 849425
4x28mm
8-12" eye relief
Duplex reticle
It runs for about $150. I though this was an interesting option, and it offers more magnification at 4x. I've owned a Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10x40mm which was a good scope, so you may want to take a look into the Weaver, too.
Good luck in your decision. Be sure to post when you actually do make a purchase and give a range report.
ClarkEMyers
Member
You may be asking the wrong question.
I have two (2) Leupold myself but I'll wager down the road the choice of reticule will make a whole lot more difference in your satisfaction than the choice of brand.
There I have one thinner and one thicker cross hair.
I use cross hairs or plex type cross hairs almost exclusively for convenience going from one gun to another.
If I had just one scope it would be a variation of the German Post and cross hair - of course if I actually did that I might change my mind pretty quickly.
I have two (2) Leupold myself but I'll wager down the road the choice of reticule will make a whole lot more difference in your satisfaction than the choice of brand.
There I have one thinner and one thicker cross hair.
I use cross hairs or plex type cross hairs almost exclusively for convenience going from one gun to another.
If I had just one scope it would be a variation of the German Post and cross hair - of course if I actually did that I might change my mind pretty quickly.
Preacherman
Member
The Burris has a heavier (i.e. thicker) reticle than the standard Leupold, but the heavy-reticle Leupold is heavier than the Burris. Both are pretty close in price, with the Burris very slightly cheaper. I have two of the Leupold thin-reticle design, and am very happy with them.
The cheapest prices I've found on these scopes are at http://www.dnrsports.com/ . Check them out!
The cheapest prices I've found on these scopes are at http://www.dnrsports.com/ . Check them out!
Mannlicher
Member
My advise would be go for the best deal on either brand that fits your criteria. I don't see much difference between them.
buzz meeks
Member
Great call on that link, Preacherman. Thanks. Fine prices. Let me make sure I understand this. The Leupold has a THINNER reticle? That's what I want. Otherwise, Mannlicher is right. The Burris and Leupold seem more similar than they are different.
Preacherman
Member
Buzz, the Leupold Scout Scope has two reticles available. The first (standard) one is a typical Duplex reticle, and is "thin". The other is also a Duplex-style, but with thicker, heavier posts. You just have to order the standard reticle.
(Look at the "Duplex" and "Heavy Duplex" illustrations at http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles.htm to see the difference.)
(Look at the "Duplex" and "Heavy Duplex" illustrations at http://www.leupold.com/products/reticles.htm to see the difference.)
buzz meeks
Member
Preacherman- bear with me as I try to sort this out. I can clearly see the difference in the Leupold posts. However, the crosshairs on the Heavy Duplex and the crosshairs on the Standard Duplex would appear to be the same thickness. At least according to L.'s website. Correct?
Northwest Cajun
Member
I have two burris's, One for a guide gun, and the other for a 1917 enfield.
I think quality would be about the same between the leupold and the burris. I like my Burris's
Which ever you get for your guide gun, you'll love it. I reccomend leupold quick realease weaver rings, they are 100% repeatable. Take it off and put it back on with NO change in zero.
Every time out to the range with both rifles I test it and it passes w/ flying colors! My enfield will put 1.3" groups at 200 yds with that "low powered" scope. I can clover leaf the 45-70 at 100. ( 405's @ 1650 fps)
You'd be amazed!!
Good luck
Cajun
I think quality would be about the same between the leupold and the burris. I like my Burris's
Which ever you get for your guide gun, you'll love it. I reccomend leupold quick realease weaver rings, they are 100% repeatable. Take it off and put it back on with NO change in zero.
Every time out to the range with both rifles I test it and it passes w/ flying colors! My enfield will put 1.3" groups at 200 yds with that "low powered" scope. I can clover leaf the 45-70 at 100. ( 405's @ 1650 fps)
You'd be amazed!!
Good luck
Cajun
JNewell
Member
You did the right thing checking the catalog, but I have both regular and heavy duplex Leupold scopes and I don't think that the inner section is the same -- my visual memory is that the HD is thicker in both sections.
I suppose it could be an optical illusion...I do find the HD very good for field use, especially against some backgrounds that tend to obscure the hairlines in the regular reticle.
Both the Burris and the Leupold are fine scopes. The are more similar than they are different, however, there is one very big difference.
The Burris scope has an adjustable ocular lens (eyepiece), te Leupold does NOT!
With my eyes, it was impossible for me to focus on the Leupold reticle when mounted on my Marlin 336.
I switched it out for the Burris, adjusted the eyepiece, and focus was perfect.
The Burris scope has an adjustable ocular lens (eyepiece), te Leupold does NOT!
With my eyes, it was impossible for me to focus on the Leupold reticle when mounted on my Marlin 336.
I switched it out for the Burris, adjusted the eyepiece, and focus was perfect.
Preacherman
Member
Gaijin, that's a great point! I wasn't aware of that difference. Methinks I'll have to buy a Burris and try it out...
buzz meeks
Member
Point in favor of the Burris there. My nerdy eyes aren't getting any better. JNewell said the heavy plex actually worked better against some backgrounds. Do any of you agree? Do the heavy reticles subtend too much target and make long range precision impossible?
ClarkEMyers
Member
Define long range precision?
As noted I have one each - thin on a .308 and thicker (Steyr stock) on a .376. I find the conventional wisdom to be spot on - it's not for shooting a bug on paper and actually doesn't do that well with a Bench Rest or say Air Rifle target - not going to take clicks or hold off half a bullet hole diameter - but either does just fine on practical targets - I am content with the two but the difference is not obtrusive or even obvious unless I am shooting with them side by side from the bench - I don't notice in the field and as noted above were I not accustomed to the plex design I'd go for one of the German style even thicker for a true Scout. Appropriate aiming points do just fine for load testing and development.
It is true the Leupold is a fixed focus. I don't remember the Scout committee making a big deal about this but I am sure it warms the good Colonel's heart to eliminate one more weakness in the scope even at the expense of an adjustment. I do have to wear my glasses to use the scopes but there is after all plenty of clearance (not there with some other scope designs).
As noted I have one each - thin on a .308 and thicker (Steyr stock) on a .376. I find the conventional wisdom to be spot on - it's not for shooting a bug on paper and actually doesn't do that well with a Bench Rest or say Air Rifle target - not going to take clicks or hold off half a bullet hole diameter - but either does just fine on practical targets - I am content with the two but the difference is not obtrusive or even obvious unless I am shooting with them side by side from the bench - I don't notice in the field and as noted above were I not accustomed to the plex design I'd go for one of the German style even thicker for a true Scout. Appropriate aiming points do just fine for load testing and development.
It is true the Leupold is a fixed focus. I don't remember the Scout committee making a big deal about this but I am sure it warms the good Colonel's heart to eliminate one more weakness in the scope even at the expense of an adjustment. I do have to wear my glasses to use the scopes but there is after all plenty of clearance (not there with some other scope designs).
Wildalaska
member
Having I betcha looked though, used and or sold 1,000 plus scout scopes, to me there is only one..
Leupold 2.5x with a German no 1 reticle....thats the ticket for any lever gun and does darn good with big caliber bolt rifles....
WildpostAlaska
Leupold 2.5x with a German no 1 reticle....thats the ticket for any lever gun and does darn good with big caliber bolt rifles....
WildpostAlaska
Atlas Shrug
Member
Many good points here. I have both the Leupold and Burris Scout Scopes. Here are my additions to the discussion:
Leupold reticle:
- thin: better on paper, more precise
- thick: better in the field, faster
(based on personal observation, shooting my Steyr, and discussions with Col. Cooper duing the first class using the then new Steyr Scouts)
Burris:
-slightly smaller than the Leupold (may be a better match on a lever gun?)
-at one time available in two different magnifications (1.75x and 2.75x IIRC)
(I have only the 2.75x and have no issues with it)
Also, I agree on the Leupold Quick Release rings. I have the QRW on a couple of rifles and like them. VERY good idea on ANY gun going after dangerous game, as you can rip it off and go to irons pretty quickly if the scope goes Tango Uniform. I have them on my Steyr .376, but not on the .308.
Good luck, no choice from your options is bad.
Keep your powder dry,
Atlas Shrug
Leupold reticle:
- thin: better on paper, more precise
- thick: better in the field, faster
(based on personal observation, shooting my Steyr, and discussions with Col. Cooper duing the first class using the then new Steyr Scouts)
Burris:
-slightly smaller than the Leupold (may be a better match on a lever gun?)
-at one time available in two different magnifications (1.75x and 2.75x IIRC)
(I have only the 2.75x and have no issues with it)
Also, I agree on the Leupold Quick Release rings. I have the QRW on a couple of rifles and like them. VERY good idea on ANY gun going after dangerous game, as you can rip it off and go to irons pretty quickly if the scope goes Tango Uniform. I have them on my Steyr .376, but not on the .308.
Good luck, no choice from your options is bad.
Keep your powder dry,
Atlas Shrug
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