Smith, Colt - Would You Pay A Premium?

[Phydeaux642]

Okay, there is always a lot of talk about how Smith & Wesson has lost their way and quality of their wheelguns going down considerably. After this there are those that are in deep sorrow over the fact that Colt no longer makes a revolver because it's just too darn expensive to do so.

My question is this:
Would you be willing to pay a premium for a "New" Model 27 or "New" Python that could hold their own against the older models of the same name? Let's face it, it costs a lot of money to build a premium product. I doubt that we'll ever see the "good old days" again, but if these companies could sell these guns at, say, $1,500 a piece, would you pay that? I don't know if $1,500 is a do-able price, but the "Classic" model 27 is something like $800-$900, so, I would think another $600-$700 would get you a better gun.

If the answer is "no", then there probably isn't a lot of room left for complaining about the "good old days" being gone.

 

[Deanimator]

"Premium" M1911s are typically in your price range... or more.

 

[Phydeaux642]

"Premium" M1911s are typically in your price range... or more.

True, but while it is a brilliant design, isn't the 1911 a simpler design? People always talk about the simplicity of the revolver, but that isn't reality. A revolver is a little more involved than the 1911 as I understand it from a manufacturing and assembly standpoint. I have been wrong before, though.

 

[Fat Boy]

Would you be willing to pay a premium for a "New" Model 27 or "New" Python that could hold their own against the older models of the same name?

I think the key is in your statement about "new models...that could hold their own against the older models of the same name"....I have serious questions about whether or not the companies could actually produce such a thing. I am probably sounding a theme some people think is nuts; however I think the quality of workmanship that went into the older guns is non-existent in current production guns

I would pay the premium, if I was confident in the quality, craftsmanship, etc.

 

[PX4]

Had always wanted a Python but never got one. "IF" I could get one of the same quality as the original I'd be willing to go as high as $1000 - 1100 but $1500 is pushing it. Already have a M27 (8 3/8" barrel) of 1991 vintage and I only paid $350 for it NIB so no way I'd pay $1500 for one now.

 

[Guillermo]

I would pay 1000 for a new Python of old time quatilty and fitting. I disagree with Fat Boy as to whether they COULD produce such a gun. We know what they did and can replicate and even improve the process.

Even though I am confident that they could, I don't think they would.

Smith shows no love of quality, Colt produces only 100 year old designs, Taurus makes cheap stuff as does Charter.

The few companies that produce really high quality stuff still use MIM parts and the like.

Sadly the sun has set on the golden age of the revolver.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I could get one of the same quality as the original I'd be willing to go as high as $1000 - 1100 but $1500 is pushing it

...and that's why they don't produce the guns to that "old standard of quality." there aren't enough folks who would pay for the workmanship required.

folks who would pay that price would just get the current gun and have it gone over by a good pistolsmith who can bring it up to the standard they require.

 

[MCgunner]

New Smiths are out of my price point anyway. I've always liked Ruger and I've become enamored with several Taurus revolvers the last dozen years. I think the trick is to check the revolver out thoroughly before you buy it. You'll minimize the chance of a lemon that way.

Smith does have a few revolvers I'd like to have if I had that kind of money to blow. I don't like the lock design at all, would have to eliminate that lock. I'd like a 5" M60 adjustable sight .357 for a hiking gun. I think that would be a light, accurate, powerful gun to have along. But, I don't really hike much anymore and I have other guns I do like. I'd kinda like a 625 too. Had a 1917 and it was sorta worn out, but still cool.

 

[buck460XVR]

Okay, there is always a lot of talk about how Smith & Wesson has lost their way and quality of their wheelguns going down considerably

first off, you have to convince me, objectionably, that this statement is true. Last I read, the percentage of newer guns returned for repair or replacement to S&W compared to older models was about the same or less, even tho most folks put more rounds thru their handguns than folks did 50 years ago. Sure there are more disgruntled gun owners, but there are also more happy gun owners, because there are so many more guns being produced. 50 years ago there was no internet for one unhappy gun owner to go to and post the same post on ten different gun forums about what a P.O.S. his new smith is. 50 years ago folks were happy to have a company that would stand by their product and fix or replace something defective. Now days we gotta whine about it for a while even after our problems have been fixed and then again there are those that can never be pleased no matter what. I do admit the fit and finish isn't what it used to be 50 years ago, but the same is true about most anything that requires human intervention/craftmanship, whether it be guns, autos or cabinetry......and it seems the folks doing the most whinin' about the work ethics and quality of workmanship of others are the ones that spend the most time gabbin' around the water cooler at work....or spendin' the most time surfin' the net on company time and the first ones to leave work early to go to the gun range.

Sadly the sun has set on the golden age of the revolver.

maybe, but it sure has risen on a nation of whiners and snibblers.

 

[Guillermo]

folks who would pay that price would just get the current gun and have it gone over by a good pistolsmith who can bring it up to the standard they require

nope...still would be a bedpan full of MIM parts

 

[Guillermo]

it sure has risen on a nation of whiners and snibblers

don't put me in that catagory. I am buying all the old revolvers that I can afford at a better price than if Smith were to make a good revolver brand new.

I am QUITE happy that those that do not care run down to the gun store and buy new ones...less competition for what I want.

 

[MMCSRET]

I've never been a huge or active fan of S&W, I own some, I use them.
I would pay a premium for a D or E frame Colt with the exception of Diamond Back and Python. I want Police Positive Special and OMM, OMT, OMS and Official Police.

 

[9mmepiphany]

nope...still would be a bedpan full of MIM parts

the OP did not mention the deletion of MIM parts, only that the quality would be the same as the old S&W pistols.

you may not agree, but just because parts are made via MIM does not automatically make them of inferior quality...that used to be the arguement against first alloy and then cast parts

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Would you be willing to pay a premium for a "New" Model 27 or "New" Python that could hold their own against the older models of the same name?

From Gunsamerica.com

Colt Python (GA Number: 922613004) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
.357 Magnum has 4 inch barrel with red ramp front sight. Made in 1964 serial number 347xx. Has pearl grips with silver Colt medallions. Appears to hav ...(read more)

Seller: Bromleys Gun Shop (FFL Dealer) $1,399.00

Colt Python Revolver (GA Number: 946697049) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
Colt Python Double Action Revolver, serial #K18404, .357 Mag. 8” vent rib barrel with an excellent bore. The metal surfaces retain 99% original royal ...(read more)

Seller: DGSGUNS (FFL Dealer) $1,445.00
GA Sales: 159

EARLYCOLT PYTHON 357 4" (GA Number: 998463463) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
HAVE A EARLY COLT PYTHON 357MAG 4" BLUE GUN HAS 99% ORIG BLUE SER # E42XX MINT BORE ORIG WOOD GRIPS ORIG BOX NUMBERED TO GUN CALL TO RESERVE

Seller: D L SHOOTING SUPL (FFL Dealer) $1,495.00

Colt Python .357 mag 8" 100% Blue w/shd holester (GA Number: 913959144) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern Colt Python 8" blue. No box. Has been fired very little. 100% BLUE. VERY CLEAN PYTHON .357. includes leather Bia ...(read more)

Seller: Armando santos $1,500.00

Colt Python Blue 6 in Bbl **LIKE NEW** (GA Number: 943706020) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
Colt Python, 357 Mag. revolver, 6 inch barrel, blue steel in like new condition. This Colt Python comes in a factory Colt Box but it is probably not t ...(read more)

Seller: PERRYS GUN SHOP (FFL Dealer) $1,500.00
GA Sales: 154

1971 Colt Python (GA Number: 962270244) Classified Ad
Colt Double Action Revolvers- Modern
I bought this to shoot, never realizing it was in 98% condition, and when I opened up the newly arrived Python, I never had the heart to shoot it. I w ...(read more)

Seller: Mike Kelly $1,500.00

Yes, there are few listed for less, but the majority run $1,400 and up.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I saw a guy with a table full of glossy blue Colts yesterday. I looked over a 4 inch Diamondback with an asking price of $700 for a while.

They were never cheap, the question is could Colt make a Colt for what an old Colt is selling for?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

For the old Colts, with the old lockwork, the answer is probably no -- too much handfitting. But Colt make new revolvers with updated lockwork, less hand fitting and equal quality? I don't know, but I'd like to think they could. An Anaconda, with proper throating and forcing cone would be a great gun.

 

[Phydeaux642]

I think the key is in your statement about "new models...that could hold their own against the older models of the same name"....I have serious questions about whether or not the companies could actually produce such a thing.

I'm confident that they could. People can do a lot of things when they put their mind and resources to it.

Quote:
I could get one of the same quality as the original I'd be willing to go as high as $1000 - 1100 but $1500 is pushing it

...and that's why they don't produce the guns to that "old standard of quality." there aren't enough folks who would pay for the workmanship required.

And, that's kind of my point.

Quote:
Okay, there is always a lot of talk about how Smith & Wesson has lost their way and quality of their wheelguns going down considerably

first off, you have to convince me, objectionably, that this statement is true.

I'm not saying whether it's true or not, only that it is an arguement that is ongoing.

nope...still would be a bedpan full of MIM parts

Nope. Let's get back to pinned barrels and case hardened hammers and triggers. Then what would you do. For me, the amount of money you would have to pay to get the same kind of workmanship you got decades ago is out of the price range that I shop within. The most I've paid for a handgun is $740. I would like to be able to spend more, but I get antsy when it gets beyond $600. And, I've managed to put together a small collection that I am mostly happy with.

 

[Guillermo]

Let me say again...I am happy with the way things are.

While everyone is running to the Dodge dealer and buying a new car, I am getting a deal on vintage Porsches.

 

[Phydeaux642]

Let me say again...I am happy with the way things are.

While everyone is running to the Dodge dealer and buying a new car, I am getting a deal on vintage Porsches.

Oh, I understand you. I, myself, love looking for old Smiths. Just this week I found a 1967 model 36 snubbie in terrific condition. I have to put some old diamond wood grips and a T-Grip on it, but it was $375. The new "Classic" 36s are north of $600 I believe. Quite a savings in my book.

 

[MCgunner]

you may not agree, but just because parts are made via MIM does not automatically make them of inferior quality...that used to be the arguement against first alloy and then cast parts

Well, if a gunsmith is gonna make the gun QUALITY, he can't work with MIM parts and do it. As I understand it, MIM parts do not smooth up well. Not that they'll break or something, just that you can't get the quality of smoothness working with the MIM parts. I'm not a gunsmith, I just listen to the local gurus. If I'm wrong on this, I'm quoting Fuff or somebody I heard this from.

 

[JohnBT]

Would I pay $1500 for a newly made Python? Heck no, there are plenty out there for less and I don't need the box and papers because I'm just going to shoot it anyway. There's no way anyone is making a Python these days for a grand. They'd have to bead blast it and put $10 rubber grips on it to even think about it.

I think I paid too much ($495 would have been better) for this very nice '60s model, but it looks a whole lot better in person that in the pic. It was $1150 the first of this year and advertised on this board. He said '69, I think '67; the stocks aren't correct for that vintage, but I had stocks and the ones on it are valuable enough even though for a later gun.

Hey, it's just another plinker to me.

 

[rayman]

There's always Korth...

 

[Guillermo]

some frequent poster (I think Rodentman) on THR has a signature of...are you ready?

A Korth is a Korth of Korth of Korth

makes me giggle every time I see it

 

[JWF III]

I really don't think you could match the quality for the $1500 price point. The gunsmiths that both Colt and S&W were true craftsmen. That kind of workmanship would earn one heck of a labor bill in todays money.

Can the machines do what they (gunsmiths) used to do. They could get close, but a computer has no sense of vision or feel. I don't think the machines could match the quality.

A combination of the two might could get it close. Similar to S&W's PC line. But the fact of if they're up to the comparison is a debate that I won't get into.

Wyman

 

[Logos]

The Chinese could probably make one for $750.

No, I'm not kidding.