Tell me about the 30-30 cartridge.

[Panzerschwein]

that was the biggest cartridge I'd ever seen. It was a huge event in my young life when I was finally deemed big enough to actually shoot it myself.

I felt the same way about the Mosin Nagant and it's 7.62x54mmR shells! First high power rifle I ever fired, and those shells looked as big as 20mm anti-tank rounds do to me now the first time I shot the rifle!

I've been looking for a "thuddy-thuddy" for a while now, it's a great cartridge with a lot of history and it was chambered in some classic, CLASSIC, guns.

 

[Swampman]

@Bezoar
Below is the only post in the three page thread that even mentions 100 yards.
Originally posted by:TexasPatriot.308

ideal round at 100 yards or less....its been around for a reason...after that...look for other choices

That doesn't sound much like a condemnation as "useless" to me, they're merely pointing out that the 30-30 isn't the greatest caliber around for longer ranges.

The reduced recoil .308 and 30-06 loads you alluded to in your earlier post are a great idea and would undoubtedly work well for 80 percent of the shots that most hunters are likely to take on whitetail. However I doubt that there are many knowledgeable hunters that would choose those loads if they were going to hunt where most shots were likely to be at 200 to 300 yards or even further.

Sorta like the 30-30.
No doubt there are plenty of hunters capable of effectively using a 30-30 at those distances, but there probably aren't many who'd claim it was the best tool for the job.

I love my Winchester Model 94 Trapper for close cover use, but the somewhat crude Buckhorn sights and the short sight radius imposed by the 16 inch barrel make it less than ideal much past 150 yards, especially when combined with eyes that passed the half century mark a few years back.

I know that a good scope, receiver or tang sight could probably extend the range a bit, but why bother? It's a perfect tool as it is for hunting bottomland and swamps where ranges seldom exceed 50 yards. I've got other rifles with better sights, shooting more powerful, flatter shooting cartridges if I'm going to hunt where ranges might get long.

But none of them are as light, handy, quick to shoulder and just plain "right" feeling as that old Winchester thirty-thirty.

 

[FireInCairo]

So is the 30-30 a decent cartridge for between 100-200 yards?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Indeed it is. Although many people will sneer at it, it's a perfectly good elk cartridge and has proven that over and over. For lesser game -- whitetails, mulies and black bear, it's close to ideal.

 

[R.W.Dale]

So is the 30-30 a decent cartridge for between 100-200 yards?

The cartridge is.

But a lot of the triggers, sighting and scope mounting systems and dare I say it accuracy on the rifles themselves may not be to varying degrees

 

[midland man]

like I said earlier I use only the 170gr bullet loads and I love it! works for me

 

[R.W.Dale]

It's a classic, even timeless deer cartridge that has taken more deer than any other. .

Folks say this all the time but with a little analyzing I find it seriously doubtful.

30-30 was introduced in 1894

Between there and the Great Depression repeating rifles were very expensive compared to income of your average blue collar man. The single shot shotgun reigned supreme as the meat getter gun for the average joe. Wildlife populations during this time were greatly greatly diminished

After and during the great depression deer were virtually wiped out and were even extinct in some areas. It wasn't till the 60's and later in some places that deer populations reached anything resembling normalcy. A lot of old timers talk about this era and say things like "you didn't hunt for racks and you shot the first deer you saw because it may be the only one you see all season"

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that more deer have been killed since the 80's to today than the nearly century previous since the 30-30 was new. By then the 30-30 had a lot of competition in the deer woods popularity contest making the claim of "more than all others" dubious at best

 

[Tommygunn]

Folks say this all the time but with a little analyzing I find it seriously doubtful.

30-30 was introduced in 1894

Between there and the Great Depression repeating rifles were very expensive compared to income of your average blue collar man. The single shot shotgun reigned supreme as the meat getter gun for the average joe. Wildlife populations during this time were greatly greatly diminished

After and during the great depression deer were virtually wiped out and were even extinct in some areas. It wasn't till the 60's and later in some places that deer populations reached anything resembling normalcy. A lot of old timers talk about this era and say things like "you didn't hunt for racks and you shot the first deer you saw because it may be the only one you see all season"

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that more deer have been killed since the 80's to today than the nearly century previous since the 30-30 was new. By then the 30-30 had a lot of competition in the deer woods popularity contest making the claim of "more than all others" dubious at best

Actually the rifle was introduced in 1894 and the .30-30 cartridge was introduced in 1895. Winchester hadn't quit perfected the nickel steel they needed for the .30-30 in '94 so they introduced it in some blackpowder calibers first, then the new smokeless, AKA "doubledense" powder later.

 

[Conelrad]

.30-30 +1 vote

I have the Marlin 336T my dad won for a $2 raffle ticket back in '62.

Shot lots of 150 & 170gr. through it, never thought it was lacking in any way.

I'd get a rifle in that cal post haste.

DG

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I read accidently that it is the cartridge chosen for capital punishment.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I shoot 150gr and 170gr jacketed bullets and a 165gr Cast bullet too in my 30-30. When my eyes got too old for the open sights I mounted a 4X32 scope...

I loaded up some 170gr JSP bullets with Leverevolution last night. I will give them a try during the week and I'm expecting equal of superior velocities from the 170gr bullet loaded with LVR as the 150gr bullets loaded with IMR3031 or H4895.

I just might give LVR a try with those 165gr plain base cast bullets too next week...

 

[Jason_W]

I read accidently that it is the cartridge chosen for capital punishment.

In Utah it's still on the books as the round used by firing squads. I'm pretty sure they also use Winchester 94s. This is likely due to the fact that rifle and round was the pinnacle of firearms tech the last time the legal system addressed the procedure of firing squads.

A handful of death row inmates in Utah sued to be executed by firing squad over the years with the most recent firing squad execution being in 2010. Utah has since banned the method and currently only Oklahoma has it on the books as a backup method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad#United_States

Sorry for the tangent. The history of capital punishment fascinates me.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I own both the Browning A-bolt in .30-06 and a 1949 Winchester .30 WCF mod 94. The Winchester is my go to gun for most anything I wish to shoot.

My loading is a Speer 170 gr Hot-core Flat Nose over 32 grains of W-748. A three shot group at 100 yards is (for this ol' Jackhandle) 1 5/8"...

Factor ammunition...Remington 170 grain Core-Lokt is the best.

 

[Gun Geezer]

Nice post. I will hand mine down one day.

One of the great sadnesses of my life: No one to pass a favored rifle down to. My girls just don't care.

Maybe I'll get a decent son-in-law.

 

[midland man]

hi I use 33.6gr of 760 win powder under a 170gr softpoint bullet and it shoots tight groups in my Winchester model 94 ranger and my marlin 336w I use this load on everything!

 

[burk]

I know more deer have been killed with them than any other round at least in the midwest. It can also be said that the S & W model 10 has killed more bad guys than any other gun, but if I was a Police officer today it would not be near my first choice

My take, more deer have also been wounded with them than any other gun. In all sincerity a 20 ga SST slug has superior down range ballistics. In retail there is no question that the new low priced bolt actions like the Ruger American have destroyed the lever market. If I owned one, I'd set it up and run Hornady Levermatic through it, to make it closer ballistically to a modern rifle, because for the average shooter it's a hundred yard whitetail gun at best. Are they cool, are they a great piece of history, are they iconic? No doubt. But there are far better choices for almost every application.

Then again, there's nothing wrong with buying and using iconic firearms.

 

[PO2Hammer]

I have a single shot Handi rifle in 30-30, terrific little gun. Highly accurate @100 yards with factory ammo or my cast lead loads. In my area we're not allowed to use rifles for big game, so I use mine for plinking with hand loads. 6 grains of Trail Boss with a Magnus 115 LRN .30 carbine bullet makes for a quiet, low recoil plinker load that will shoot <3" at 100 yards.

 

[mikemyers]

A relative sent me this link:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm​

​

I am posting here because of his concern that the pointed-end bullets sitting up against each other in a circular tube might potentially cause the pointed end of one bullet firing the primer on the bullet in front of it, in which case the gun would probably blow up....


I read the article, and it's hard to decide if it is really a review, or something an advertising manager wrote. While it sounds like these may well be better bullets for some purposes, I think the safety issue might be "a solution looking for a problem".

If I still lived in Michigan, I'd probably have my old 30-30, but nowadays all I shoot is handguns. I'd like to find if this safety concern is "real" or "invented", and pass the answer back to my relative. Thanks!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

My take, more deer have also been wounded with them than any other gun. In all sincerity a 20 ga SST slug has superior down range ballistics.

The key to killing a deer is shot placement. A Model 94 Winchester will allow you to place your shots accurately out to 200 yards, something no shotgun can do.

 

[HOOfan_1]

In all sincerity a 20 ga SST slug has superior down range ballistics

the info on Hornady's website begs to differ....

http://www.hornady.com/store/20-GA-SST-Slug-250gr-SST/

Muzzle-Velocity: 1800 fps Energy: 1798 ft-lb
50 yards-Velocity: 1628 fps Energy: 1471
100 yards-Velocity: 1470 fps Energy 1200ft-lb
150 yards-Velocity: 1331 fps Energy: 983 ft-lb
200 yards-Velocity: 1212 fps Energy: 815 ft-lb

sight in at 150 yards
drop at 200 yards 8.2 inches

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-Win-160-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

Muzzle-Velocity: 2400 fps Energy: 2046 ft-lb
100 yards-Velocity: 2150 fps Energy: 1643 ft-lb
200 yards-Velocity: 1916 fps Energy: 1304 ft-lb
300 yards-Velocity: 1699 fps Energy: 1025 ft-lb

sight in at 150 yards
drop at 200 yards .2 inches

 

[fardarrigger]

I recently picked up an old Marlin 336 RC 30-30 for $300 and a trade for one of my handmade paracord belts. The serial number shows it was built in 1952, and it has a 16 inch barrel and a pistol grip stock. I really like this little gun, short and sweet handing it is and then some. I have wanted a Winchester Trapper ever since I first saw one, except the price of the last decent one I saw was over $500, and well, it's a Winchester. I have always loved the looks of the Winchesters, but the problems began for me the first time I picked up a Wincester, then handled a Marlin. For me there is no comparison between the two, the Marlin is a far superior gun. Please note, if you have a Winchester you love, good for you. I simply like the Marlins better. So I got the gun I wanted (30-30 lever action) in the short barrel configuration I love, in a model I didn't even know existed. Life is good : )

 

[Tommygunn]

A relative sent me this link:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm​

​

I am posting here because of his concern that the pointed-end bullets sitting up against each other in a circular tube might potentially cause the pointed end of one bullet firing the primer on the bullet in front of it, in which case the gun would probably blow up....

I read the article, and it's hard to decide if it is really a review, or something an advertising manager wrote. While it sounds like these may well be better bullets for some purposes, I think the safety issue might be "a solution looking for a problem".

If I still lived in Michigan, I'd probably have my old 30-30, but nowadays all I shoot is handguns. I'd like to find if this safety concern is "real" or "invented", and pass the answer back to my relative. Thanks!

That was a legitimate concern historically; the Henry rifle used a cartridge called the ".44 Henry Flat" because the use of pointed nosed bullets caused the rounds in front to explode in those early Henry rifle, even though they were nominally rimfire. While the firing pins WERE rimfire in fact the base of the balloon-head case cartridges had a layer of primer material across it most times.
The leverevolution ammo pictured has a rubbery tip and is safe for tube-fed leverguns.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

A while back, there was an article in Handloader magazine where the author TRIED to blow up a tubular magazine. He constructed a test magazine from steel tubing and a spring and put a remote firing device on the back end, DELIBERATELY firing the first cartridge. As I recall, he never managed to get a chain fire and damage to the test fixture was minimal.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Even so. Inside 200 yards and claimed ballistic advantage in either spitzers or new fangled gummy bullets is largely smoke and mirrors anyways

Assuming a 200 yard target from a 150 yard ZERO using manufacturer ballistics

150g Federal Fusion 3.71"

160g hornady leverevolution 3.41


Substituting the federal fusion bullet for a nosler ballistic tip 3.20

 

[Jason_W]

The .30-30 ballistically trumps a lot of rounds that are celebrated today. It is more versatile than both the the 7.62x39mm and the .300 BLK (a round a lot of AR fanatics salivate over).

I've had a few beers tonight so I'll stir a little controversy by asserting the following: If you can't get yourself within the effective .30-30 range of a whitetail deer, do you have any business shooting it? Are we hunters or wannabe snipers?

I get that some people are after pronghorn (which live in big sky country) or elk (which are notorious for their ability to soak up gunfire and often spotted at long range) But whitetail, come on, they live in the thick stuff, get close.