Today at the gun store...

[Babarsac]

I've taken a bunch of my friends, co-workers, and my girlfriend to the range at different points in time. We're all in the college/recent grad age (I'm 27) but they all were very serious once on the firing line. They all enjoyed the experience, learned quite a bit, and a few are seriously considering firearm ownership. Not bad for a bunch of gun-toting liberals

I guess you just have to take em' as they come. And I've seen quite a range of them at the gun store.

 

[bababooey32]

NC Mike +1

This hit me a while back but an awful lot of "college age kids" are combat vets with three or four tours behind them.

Its given me a new respect and a different way of looking at young men and women in our country.

 

[jordan1948]

Completely unacceptable gun-handling. (Not terribly surprising in a gun store, but not acceptable, nonetheless.)

The gun is "clear" when you've dropped the mag, locked back the bolt or opened the action, AND visibly checked the chamber.

If it is unacceptable to assume that the chamber is empty, it is equally unacceptable to assume the magazine is empty.

So do you expect them to take the magazine tube off of a pump action shotgun? It technically has a magazine.

 

[Sav .250]

They are the leaders of tomorrow.............

 

[Eightball]

In my store, we don't have a range attached. All guns are locked up securely, and no rounds of ammo for which an "unlocked/looked at" is chambered even hit the counter anywhere near it while the firearm is out. And of course, even with the myriad of other precautions, we still check/show the customer that a firearm is completely unloaded before letting them see it.

I can't imagine a salesman not being even MORE careful at a gun store with a firing range attached, where there's even a remote chance that anything in the store/behind the counter has even had a live round near it.

 

[Lonestar49]

The last line of defence/hope is with you

...

Maybe you should qualify suspected know-it-all duffas types by making sure they know the gun to be rented. Simply rack the slide (then locked back) drop the empty mag, then hand him a 9mm snap-cap, and let him load the mag with it, then insert the mag, then chamber it, then decock back into DA mode, then activate the safey ON, then unload the weapon and verify..

Then you would have "verified" what you really knew (rightfully suspected) but, at that point, should have told him "he needs a lesson or 4, before he can rent. Or at least start off with: name the 4 rules of gun safety.." and take it from there, would have at least given you a start point, as too, should I, or shouldn't I, let this guy rent and shoot.

After all, it's your duty to protect the_babe, (the innocents) from any negligent mishaps issuing a weapon, live ammo, and unleashing that combo, loose, without supervision, into the firing range, if he fails the 4 safety rules or demonstration, type gun, test.. NO..?

I mean, he failed every test, from the get-go, and "continued" with rapid firing, and a no-clue, no-care of rules, etc., just this side of total, out of control, un-schooled/trained actions..

OMMV,


Ls

 

[MagnumDweeb]

It doesn't get much better when they get into lawschool. I am an NRA certified pistol instructor(not doing the rifle one till December) and go to law school. I wear a T-shirt I had made up with a decal instructors can use without worry of copyright infringement. So I'm waving my 2nd Amendment flag out there whenever I'm on campus half the time.

So it's a known thing I do a couple classes that either of which can be used to qualify for a requirement for a person to get their CWP, because in the state of Florida there is no such as a true Concealed Weapons Permit Course(it's either an NRA guy giving you bad legal advice or a 'K' license instructor giving you bad legal advice, and no I don't give any legal advice and I keep the number on hand for the Orange County and Seminole County Bars). So I've had the usual 'I'm a great shot with this .45", or "I can out-shoot anyone with my Glock 19" usual actors at my school wanting to take my class. I even had one guy try and tell me that the Taurus PT-92 was a 1911(uh no, and he got ticked when I tried to explain that Taurus got a right to manufacture the Beretta style handgun from Beretta for production in South America). And it's always the same type of guys from either 'Chicago'(actually Illinois if you pay attention), New York City(one of my Classmates is from New York state proper, a good guy, humble, and a hell of a shot with a bolt-action rifle out two hundred yards), and Boston.

I always laugh at them with great zeal when they point at the silhouette they had a twenty feet and are proud of themselves for a grouping you couldn't cover with a 6" pie plate. And doing the shooting in one shot a second increments.

And I love getting lectured about my .44 Magnums, .357 Magnums, and .45 ACP, and getting incorrectly lectured no less. Or getting told about Black Talons, how they have a bunch of them, how they've killed deer with them.

Ron White said it best----"You can't fix stupid." Now I'll admit I once claimed to know everything and be the great source of all knowledge but I've always been willing to learn and refine myself.

But I am greatful for those classmates who taken the class with a ounce humility, interest in learning, and greatfulness. I have gotten to 'flunk' a couple of those before mentioned geniuses for repetitive safety mistakes(that I warn them against each time) and they get awful mad about, granted I wait till we are outside the range to tell them and I hand them a full refund(not the best way to do business but the look on their faces make it worth it).

 

[daorhgih]

'You should have hit on the hottie though."

That's what Business Cards are for! Don't you remember your Horatio Cain lessons?? "Hands akimbo, show badge and weapon, leave business card, always say Ma'am." (If she looks REALLY hot, let it slip out that you are a single-parent.)

 

[Sam1911]

So do you expect them to take the magazine tube off of a pump action shotgun? It technically has a magazine.

Wow. GREAT point.

Obviously not. But do you really feel that, if a magazine is made to be removable with the push of a button, REAAAAAALY simple-like, it makes ANY sense whatsoever to leave the mag in when you are "clearing" the gun?

I suppose we have to be even more specific about it then so none of us gets confused:

Steps to clearing a weapon:
1) Check to see if the gun has a cartridge holding magazine. If not, proceed to step 4.
2) If so, check to see if the gun's magazine is removable. If not, proceed to step 4.
3) IF SO, REMOVE THE MAGAZINE.
4) Open the action or lock back the bolt/slide.
5) Visually and manually inspect the chamber.

How's that? Can we all follow it NOW?

Sheesh.






-Sam

 

[Shadow 7D]

Learned to clear, and then to recheck the weapon from DS

We had a "punk" straight out of "comtin", as the drill sergeant said, he was really from south side Chicago, that thought he was all that. He handed his M-16 to the DS, DS asked him if it was clear, he said "of course", DS pulled the trigger then ejected the dummy round. Lucky for him it was our turn dry firing, all he had to say was let me check, He got to practice that for a couple of hours with his exercises.

My two points, you run into them in all lines of work, and it's not just guns, they are "Great!!!!" at everything.

It's not clear until you have cleared it and checked, shown to the person your handing it to, and they have checked. Even the the 4 rules apply.

 

[Gamera]

I bet back in the stone age, the cavemen would go to spear-rental shops and try to impress their girlfriends; all the while holding the spear backwards.

 

[Wirtbowhunter]

she was a hottie by the way!

I call bs on this one until I see some pics

 

[cyclopsshooter]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder and she was an ebony goddess with good junk in the trunk yum

 

[juk]

6 years...2 on a full-ride music scholarship to local CC. The other 4 years were spent at Auburn majoring in Aviation Management with minor in logistics/supply chain management. I didn't get either. It was work and live or go to class and not pay the bills. Right now, I am trying to get into a local tech school that specializes in Aviation technology, manufacturing, and maintenance. I am praying that I can make it though the 8 months and get a decent job making aircraft components in a nearby city.

Back on topic. My favorite indoor range is very professional. The range staff is very particular. They brief EVERY customer on the range rules no matter how many times they have been. The rules are strictly enforced and there is always at least one RO on duty. They offer a very reassuring peace of mind through professionalism.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I'd be terrible at your job.

*door opens*

"You! How long have you known that girl?"

"A couple weeks."

"Leave. Now."

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Today a college kid and his girlfriend came into the store- he asked to see an M&P15- as i was handing it to him he pronounced his expertise with the weapon... before my hands could be put down on the counter he dumped the magazine on to the floor...

It is often remarked by firearms instructors that women are easier to teach than men, because they don't think they already know it all. Here is a perfect example.

 

[chuckusaret]

This hit me a while back but an awful lot of "college age kids" are combat vets with three or four tours behind them.

Very true. When I retired I went back to college and soon learned that I was older than most of the teachers/professors and most of the students were younger than my kids. Did college as a business major help me in civilian life? No, I was a non degreed engineer for the 26 years after my retirement from the service.

Back on subject. I try not to use the local indoor ranges after the normal work day or on weekends. I shoot in the morning or early afternoon with mostly LEO's and retired military/LEO's, never a problem.

 

[NC-Mike]

Back on subject. I try not to use the local indoor ranges after the normal work day or on weekends. I shoot in the morning or early afternoon with mostly LEO's and retired military/LEO's, never a problem.

I'm very, very glad I belong to a private range. There are way too many yaa-hoos out on the public ranges. Off hours are the best solution if you are going to use the public ranges.

The last time I saw the crowd that was at one of the local public ranges, I realized I would not willing to risk my life and join that firing line.

 

[PT1911]

last I checked you can visualize the chamber and mag being empty by pulling the charging handle to the rear... if you screw that up... you really dont need to be handling the gun in the first place...

 

[CountGlockula]

I left them to the devise and returned to the store front. A few minutes later he came out front complaining that the gun didn't work- he said that the trigger would pull back all the way but the gun wouldn't fire... I thought, "could be, used guns can be a grab bag of reliability"- (even though it was a LEO trade in)

So basically, an unknowledgeable shooter got a gun and entered the firing line. My range requires new shooters to pass a gun handling test...basically to safely load and unload a firearm by using snap caps.

If the patrons is fumbling around with the weapon or points the gun at the range officer(s) , then they are recommended to take a class or bring someone who has experience. There usually isn't a certified NRA instructor there everyday and the range guys aren't allowed to teach for liability.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

thats a good idea having new users (to us) pass a safety and function test- ill talk to the boss about it

 

[CountGlockula]

thats a good idea having new users (to us) pass a safety and function test- ill talk to the boss about it

Basically this is what my range does:

Newbies coming in...

Range Guy (RG): What can I do for you?
Newb (N): I want to shoot with my friend.
RG: Do you have any handgun/shooting experience?
N: Yeah.
RG: OK, for first timers here we would like to give you a gun safety handling test to demonstrate proficiency on shooting experience. Can I test you?
N: OK.
Range guy requests to hold onto Newb's driver's license for liability...or just incase the newb runs out with the firearm. Range guy puts in front of him an empty magazine from a Glock and two snap caps.

RG: Can you please show me how to load the cartridges into the mag?

Newb MUST correctly put them in...most actually put the two cartridges in backwards! That's an INSTANT fail, since they can't pay attention to loading. If they pass then...

RG: Great. Now that you've correctly loaded the magazine, I am now going to put the mag into the gun and load one in the chamber. Now I'll put the gun on the counter and please show me how to SAFELY unload the weapon.
If Newb picks up the gun and points it at you. FAIL. If Newb asks, "Is the safety on?" FAIL. If the Newb spends more than 5-10 minutes figuring it out. FAIL. If the Newb pulls the slide back twice to remove the cartriges. FAIL. You know what I'm getting at.

That's my range's policy. This type of process gives the opportunity for newbs to sign up for the Basic Handgun Class or prevent any unsafe handling inside the range.

Good luck!

 

[cyclopsshooter]

thats a big help! thanks! for the record i did require his drivers license!

 

[CountGlockula]

Anytime buddy. Good luck. I've been at both ends of the counter and having range officers stop any unsafe gun handling is a plus. Most range guys deserve a beer of what they go through. But at the same time, most patrons/customers at the range refuse to be humble and are set at their ways.

 

[stickhauler]

I don't believe anyone had implied they knew out of the womb everything about guns, the complaint I saw was people who had no knowledge at all about them trying to act like experts to impress their girlfriends. I've seen way too many people act exactly like that, and if you try to help them out they get all cranky. There's no shame in admitting an ignorance of how something works, ignorance is simply lack of education in a subject. Stupidity, acting like you know it all, can't be cured.