Gun store loser
- Thread starter Ivanimal
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carpettbaggerr
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- Nov 13, 2003
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You think this may be why we have so many misguided youths in this country today?
How can it hurt to answer a few simple questions about a gun you're handling? I sure spent enough time drooling over the glass cases in gun stores when I was a kid. Maybe ask him to shut off the noise and chat a little.
gun store loser(s)
It's not necessarily that you put ccw'ers in a bad light here, but that you only confirmed what this socially inept youth has already been taught - that disagreements are settled with threat of violence or actual violence.
Asking someone to step outside over *mere words* both immature and tactically disadvantageous. But it probably looks cool in a movie. And especially if you were carrying that day and I assume, of course, that you were. Were actually planning on getting into a fist fight or a gun fight? Or you were planning on him not calling your bluff, as you're 6-300? Well, I;m 6'3" and 250 and the last guy who physically attacked me (sadly, dipomacy does fail sometimes) was 5'5" and weighed 150 and he fractured my sixth cervical verterbrae before I put him out of commission with non-lethal means.
I'm thinking that The Gun Store Losers might be a great band name.
It's not necessarily that you put ccw'ers in a bad light here, but that you only confirmed what this socially inept youth has already been taught - that disagreements are settled with threat of violence or actual violence.
Asking someone to step outside over *mere words* both immature and tactically disadvantageous. But it probably looks cool in a movie. And especially if you were carrying that day and I assume, of course, that you were. Were actually planning on getting into a fist fight or a gun fight? Or you were planning on him not calling your bluff, as you're 6-300? Well, I;m 6'3" and 250 and the last guy who physically attacked me (sadly, dipomacy does fail sometimes) was 5'5" and weighed 150 and he fractured my sixth cervical verterbrae before I put him out of commission with non-lethal means.
I'm thinking that The Gun Store Losers might be a great band name.
greyhound
Member
Me either. As he appears to be a fan of rap "artists"
, just think what his perception of firearms and their role must be.Pretty scary, eh? Be nice to reach some of these kids on the proper role of firearms, 4 rules, etc, if only they would drop the "hip hop tude" for a while...
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Again, you all assume this was merely a confrontation over choice of words and who would be the "big man in the gun shop." Ivanimal did not say that, however.
To the boy, it was probably just as you envision it. However, that doesn't mean Ivanimal was reacting to a "diss." You don't know what the punk's body language was, how close he was, how insistently he followed Ivanimal as the former tried very obviously to avoid him.
At some point, command presence becomes a better idea than avoidance. There are times when the only way to get control of your situation is to go to the offensive, or at least make obvious preparations to do so. It has its risks, as someone rightly pointed out; you may end up in a fistfight in a parking lot. But if you're pretty sure the other guy is working himself up to attacking you as long as you appear open to attack then it can be a reasonable gamble.
I'm not saying Ivan thought of all that, necessarily, but I find it odd that no one seems to want to admit the possibility. In fact, it seems we're willing to assume that the punk in the store was just a good kid with an attitude problem that really wasn't his fault, who just needed to meet a father figure in a gun shop to straighten out a little. At the same time, we assume Ivanimal is a braggadocious and violent lout and an embarassment to us all. Why is it that the person we don't know gets every benefit of the doubt but the guy we know (at least somewhat) is assumed to be the bad guy?
It seemed like an o.k. exchange, until the invitation to take it outside. That kind of behavior needs to be left on the grade school playground.
If I am a customer in a store, and somebody asks me a question, I'll answer it, and then defer to the store owner. It's their store, and they don't need every (expert, novice, regular shooter, wannabe, wacko) coming in and spouting opinions.
If it looks like the store owner, or employee isn't interested in the conversation, I'll talk with my fellow customer.
The owner of the store pays for rent, taxes, merchendise, and should have every opportunity to voice his advice or sales speal to anybody who walks through the door.
Weimadog
If I am a customer in a store, and somebody asks me a question, I'll answer it, and then defer to the store owner. It's their store, and they don't need every (expert, novice, regular shooter, wannabe, wacko) coming in and spouting opinions.
If it looks like the store owner, or employee isn't interested in the conversation, I'll talk with my fellow customer.
The owner of the store pays for rent, taxes, merchendise, and should have every opportunity to voice his advice or sales speal to anybody who walks through the door.
Weimadog
cxm
Member
Confronting Bangers
Not having actually been at the scene of the incident when it went down, my comments are a bit speculative. But some thoughts may be of interest.
In Texas, if you provoke a confrontation, you loose the ability to claim self defense if the incident escalates. I suspect most other states are similar. Calling someone out is risky in the extreme. If the slime ball had actually accepted the inviation and had a weapon Ivan would have been in deep kim che with the law.
I don't think I disagree with Ivan up to the point he called the boy out... at that point he was in great jeopardy. What would he have done had slime ball said ok? Go out and fight? Back down? It has become a no win situation at that point... and no win is the best outcome.
No question these slime balls are obnoxious... and Ivan was surely provoked... maybe the kiddy would have further escalated had Ivan tried to avoid further confontation... who knows? In fact Ivan may have prevented more escallation... but his action at the end seemed risky in the extreme to me.
FWIW
Chuck
Not having actually been at the scene of the incident when it went down, my comments are a bit speculative. But some thoughts may be of interest.
In Texas, if you provoke a confrontation, you loose the ability to claim self defense if the incident escalates. I suspect most other states are similar. Calling someone out is risky in the extreme. If the slime ball had actually accepted the inviation and had a weapon Ivan would have been in deep kim che with the law.
I don't think I disagree with Ivan up to the point he called the boy out... at that point he was in great jeopardy. What would he have done had slime ball said ok? Go out and fight? Back down? It has become a no win situation at that point... and no win is the best outcome.
No question these slime balls are obnoxious... and Ivan was surely provoked... maybe the kiddy would have further escalated had Ivan tried to avoid further confontation... who knows? In fact Ivan may have prevented more escallation... but his action at the end seemed risky in the extreme to me.
FWIW
Chuck
cdbeaver
Member
Tamara:
Your remark about people from "big, fat, square, Yankee states" is a bit presumptuous. In fact, it was really out of line.
Your remark about people from "big, fat, square, Yankee states" is a bit presumptuous. In fact, it was really out of line.
Revolver
Member
My input may mean little to everyone, but I'm not your average teenager myself. I listen to metal and bluegrass (not at the same time obvisously), I don't dress like most of my class mates. My wardrobe consists of mostly grey T-shrits with muscle cars on them and jeans and cargo pants, but I've never been disrespected in gunshops becuase I conduct my self appropriatly unlike the Fellow Ivanimal encountered. I realize that not everyone likes my music so I don't force it upon them. I have had several comments made to me and behind my back about how I don't dress very colorfully, but these comments have usually been made by narrow minded sheeple I mean ummm people. I think that Ivanimal conducted himself appropriatly even down to the physical challange, because thats the only way you can get through to some people is to punk them to make them leave quietly.
"[Tamara's] remark about people from "big, fat, square, Yankee states" is a bit presumptuous. In fact, it was really out of line."
I think Tamara was referring to the states themselves being "big, fat, and square" (Colorado? Wyoming? Pennsylvania?) instead of being more irregularly-shaped like Louisiana or Florida.
That said, for my money any moderator who posts jpegs of her "waistband carry" as a thinly-disguised excuse to show off her butt in tight blue jeans can say anything she wants about me or my state, with complete impunity.
The above comment is relevant to this thread as it is the corrolary to the adage about first impressions: Some people make REALLY GOOD first impressions, and then they're likely "in" for good.
JR
I think Tamara was referring to the states themselves being "big, fat, and square" (Colorado? Wyoming? Pennsylvania?) instead of being more irregularly-shaped like Louisiana or Florida.
That said, for my money any moderator who posts jpegs of her "waistband carry" as a thinly-disguised excuse to show off her butt in tight blue jeans can say anything she wants about me or my state, with complete impunity.
The above comment is relevant to this thread as it is the corrolary to the adage about first impressions: Some people make REALLY GOOD first impressions, and then they're likely "in" for good.
JR
12-34hom
Member
Happy New Year from Iowa.
Again, Tamaras comments about us "Yankees" are = typical.
Bwhahahahahaha.. Ok Art I'm waiting..
12-34hom.
Again, Tamaras comments about us "Yankees" are = typical.
Bwhahahahahaha.. Ok Art I'm waiting..
12-34hom.
Revolver - please see my previous posts. My hat's off to you for your respect for your elders and your way of dealing with people who would judge you harshly because of your tastes in clothing. And obviously you do have some good taste if you appreciate both metal and bluegrass, as I do But the notion that punking maybe the only way to get through to someone really has no place in mind of a responsible armed citizen, at least in my opinion. The way that Ivananimal chose to deal with this problem only reinforces the worst principles of the gangsta culture - that I'm right not because I'm right but because I can steal your grill if you so much as question if I'm right.
Not to put all that on Ivananimal. But really, I am reading Don Gwinn's reply and I am just wondering if he has even read Ivananimals post. I've quoted it below but have removed anything that is not a direct description of the youth or his behavior.
No where in Ivananimals' post does he even so much as suggest that the youth's body language is intimidating or threatening. Nor does he really say anything that indicates that there was any kind of situation to get control of. If anything it was very very low level smack talk. Of course, I guess one could automatically assume that anyone flying these hip-hop cultural indicators is a villain just as one could assume that anyone with a 4x4 truck and a dixie flag is something that they might not be.
In short, this is a whole lot of bluster and a great opportunity for some folks to jump in and say, "Yeah, way to go man. Way to tell that punk off." And to me it just sounds like a great way for somebody to get shot. Unnecessarily. I think that it's best, when not on the internet, to meet rough manners with polite and stolid deference. Sticks and stones man, but words.....nah.....
But the notion that punking maybe the only way to get through to someone really has no place in mind of a responsible armed citizen, at least in my opinion. The way that Ivananimal chose to deal with this problem only reinforces the worst principles of the gangsta culture - that I'm right not because I'm right but because I can steal your grill if you so much as question if I'm right. Not to put all that on Ivananimal. But really, I am reading Don Gwinn's reply and I am just wondering if he has even read Ivananimals post. I've quoted it below but have removed anything that is not a direct description of the youth or his behavior.
No where in Ivananimals' post does he even so much as suggest that the youth's body language is intimidating or threatening. Nor does he really say anything that indicates that there was any kind of situation to get control of. If anything it was very very low level smack talk. Of course, I guess one could automatically assume that anyone flying these hip-hop cultural indicators is a villain just as one could assume that anyone with a 4x4 truck and a dixie flag is something that they might not be.
In short, this is a whole lot of bluster and a great opportunity for some folks to jump in and say, "Yeah, way to go man. Way to tell that punk off." And to me it just sounds like a great way for somebody to get shot. Unnecessarily. I think that it's best, when not on the internet, to meet rough manners with polite and stolid deference. Sticks and stones man, but words.....nah.....
carpettbaggerr
Member
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- Nov 13, 2003
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Where exactly did she post these pictures? I can search, but sometimes that takes a while, and I really,really need pointers on my carry technique.
Chuck Dye
Member
California Penal Code found at:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment and fine: (1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight. (2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise (Emphasis added HP.) (3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
Avoid it, evade it, escape it, deal with it, but at all times be prepared to suffer or enjoy the consequences of your actions. Escalation? Likely to have more consequences than any of the first four choices.
Ivanimal was in the right until he made the situation mutual, though I doubt any city cop or county deputy would have gone past lecture mode, had one appeared on the scene.
What I find interesting, and dismaying, is how much so many posters read into Ivanimal’s original post. I found genuine comic relief when Ivanimal identified himself as Hispanic and the irritant as white. I will not ask Ivanimal if he carries, with or without a permit, and if I have missed other threads in which he has made the answer known, I apologize to those who posted about the folly of CCW permit holders challenging anyone to a fight, but where in the thread’s original post did that consideration come into play?
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment and fine: (1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or challenges another person in a public place to fight. (2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another person by loud and unreasonable noise (Emphasis added HP.) (3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.
Avoid it, evade it, escape it, deal with it, but at all times be prepared to suffer or enjoy the consequences of your actions. Escalation? Likely to have more consequences than any of the first four choices.
Ivanimal was in the right until he made the situation mutual, though I doubt any city cop or county deputy would have gone past lecture mode, had one appeared on the scene.
What I find interesting, and dismaying, is how much so many posters read into Ivanimal’s original post. I found genuine comic relief when Ivanimal identified himself as Hispanic and the irritant as white. I will not ask Ivanimal if he carries, with or without a permit, and if I have missed other threads in which he has made the answer known, I apologize to those who posted about the folly of CCW permit holders challenging anyone to a fight, but where in the thread’s original post did that consideration come into play?
asianthug47
member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2004
- Messages
- 9
???????s are what we call them around here
These people should never own a gun. Unfortunately, they will and they're the ones that make our gun rights go away. I can't blame people for fearing guns when there are tons of these poorly brought-up parasites in society.
These peanut-for-a-brain youths love to dry fire into the crowd from their car, thinking that they prove a point of being in charge. It is dangerous when they the the round that the just chamber previous suppose to magically disappear when they take out the "clip". When someone gets hurted, they suit the gun makers for wrongdoing.
I say we send them back to Liberia to learn how to handle guns before granting them citizenship.
Note: My opinion target all groups of people ranging from a for asian, b for black, l for latins, and all the way to p for palestindian.
These people should never own a gun. Unfortunately, they will and they're the ones that make our gun rights go away. I can't blame people for fearing guns when there are tons of these poorly brought-up parasites in society.
These peanut-for-a-brain youths love to dry fire into the crowd from their car, thinking that they prove a point of being in charge. It is dangerous when they the the round that the just chamber previous suppose to magically disappear when they take out the "clip". When someone gets hurted, they suit the gun makers for wrongdoing.
I say we send them back to Liberia to learn how to handle guns before granting them citizenship.
Note: My opinion target all groups of people ranging from a for asian, b for black, l for latins, and all the way to p for palestindian.
Marko Kloos
Moderator Emeritus
This one's done, methinks.
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