Gun store loser

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In my opinion, Ivan and Tam are both right. As well as everybody else who posted here. Nobody has any obligation to try to change a kid's outlook on life, just as nobody should judge that kid for looking like a kid.

It looks to me like this kid will end up one of two ways:

1) Gangbanger/youthful offender on to jail time, probation, eventually a series of prison stays.

2) Eventually, the kid will have somebody (adult) reach him in just the right way to connect. He'll find the common interest that lets him talk to the adult, in an adult way. He'll learn adult ways, and mature. If tat common interest is guns, then great.

To be that adult is a lot of work, and takes a lot of patience... but the reward is well worth it.
 
To accuse Ivananimal of not "takin' one for the team" is way off base.
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No one's demanding that he do any such thing. I think most of us would have been okay with him if he had said, "Look, bub, I'm just trying to look at guns. Would you leave me alone?"

Not especially nice, but not rude, either. Just a simple request to be left alone, as we are all entitled to.

But the one place where he went plain wrong was to suggest that they fight over. . . what? not wanting to talk to him? The guy's impression that he's got a contentious attitude about the guy? (and thereby proving that impression to be true!)

The point is, there was, as detailed here, NO reason to suggest a fight. [Reminds me of when I was little kid in the park, playing on the monkey bars, and a big older kid, a stranger to me, came up to me and asked me if I wanted a "knuckle sandwich." I explained that, no thank you, I had just eaten a cheese cracker that my mama had given me. When he made clear to me what he meant (I was four), I was confused. He was bigger than me. Why did he want to beat me up? Had I annoyed him?]
 
What if there were nine more "bangers" just like him outside ? That's where these types find their strengths. This is probably why he declined the invitation, he WAS alone.
 
with the exception of asking him outside, i think Ivanimal handled it just fine. i do not feel any obilgation what so ever to try to put a misguided youth on the right path, be his friend, answer his question, or even acknowledge him at all. when i'm a shopper, i'm a shopper, not a store clerk. i do not feel its my duty to even speak to anyone i don't want to. i'm usually poilte, until its time to not be polite. i don't go out of my way to blow sunshine up someone's rear when i'm out and about. refering the youngster to the salesman was perfectly acceptable. the kid then tried to push it. its then time to either say "yes, i am too good" or perhaps, "do you have a problem with me?"

"you too good to talk to me den?" with that comment, he just made it so.

anyone that talks to me like that is not good enough for me to talk to. sound snoobby? it may be. but i'm certainly not going to waste my valuable time on someone that chooses to speak to me like that. respect is mutual. i show it everyone, until they give me a reason not to. the kid gave a reason to not be polite or show him respect. it started when he walked in with music blaring, subjecting everyone to his noise. thats disrespectful to everyone around you. i don't care what kind fo music it is.


i keep to myself most of the time, and quite frankly, i don't really appraciate people sticking thier nose in my business. when strange people start asking me questions, i usually just politely say "i don't know".

we all like to say that we don't judge people by their clothes or mannerisms, but the fact is we all do it. whether you admit it or not. and thats ok, its natural. the fact is, that stereotypes exist for a reason. if they weren't at least somewhat true, they wouldn;'t exist in the first place, and, in my experience, 75% of the time, they're true. people dress a certain way, act a certain way, and just BEG and PROVOKE people to notice it and goad them into saying something to them, then blame the person for judging, stereotyping, etc. i see it everyday where i work.

as was stated earlier, some people go about their lives just BEGGING to be made an example of. whether it be by getting their butt handed to them, or gettin gthemselves killed, there is always someone out there that is willing to oblige them. some day, that kid will mouth off to the wrong person and get himself killed. he will have brought it on himself, and i feel no sympathy for him.

i understand theat some kids don't get a proper upbringing. its a sad thing to see. i also acknowledge that the same kid eventually has a choice to make. perpetuate the kind of treatment, or mistreatment, that was inflicted on him, or rise above it and become a better person.

i would never invite a confontation while carrying a gun, which is always, though.

Bobby
 
I agree that the situation could have been handled better. I'm no fan of hip-hop culture, but I guess I'm still young enough to look past the silly music and clothes. If someone wants to talk about firearms, I'm ALWAYS willing to engage. If someone were to call me at two AM wanting to know "what 'cho think 'bout them Glocks," I'd talk. One of my favorite encounters at a gun store was when a "gangsta" type with dark skin asked the clerk how to get a gun license. The clerk was confused, and I interverned and explained that you did not need one in Alaska. I then discussed the merits of various small arms with the fellow.

I guess I just have a certain messianic zeal in these matters.
 
He was dressed in a way you didn't approve of, listening to music you didn't like, and didn't know as much about guns as you did, so you blew him off rudely. When he was less than polite in return, you threw your bulk around and challenged him to a fight in the parking lot
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Asking to step outside is just plain dumb, even if you won. The aftermath all too often leads to way too many "difficulties". HOWEVER this "rapper" was looking for attention/trouble at someone else's expense. Thats how many of them get their thrills and rebel against society. He was treated in a civil manner yet thats not what he was interested in. Gun stores like country western bars are known to be somewhat conservative in nature. The "rapper" knew what he was doing, he wasn't from a different culture. I'd be happy to talk guns with him, as long as he showed a little common sense and pulled-up his pants and turned the boombox down or off. I'd even spring for a good belt if he's short on cash, hell I'll give him mine!
 
As far as Tamaras comments go = typical

Suggesting to step outside was wrong.

Other than that, if i or anyone else don't want to talk with someone, a stranger in fact i'm going to let them know it.

Rude? perhaps, but some people just don't get it and need to be reminded of that fact.

Perhaps if this young man had approached and said, led off his premise with...Excuse me sir,..... is that to much to ask in todays society?

12-34hom.
 
Some people are beyond help. And their parent(s). It's not our responsibility to try to raise a person once he's grown. :scrutiny:
 
This is really a fascinating question, with a boatload of cultural implications (even though the kid was white). As I sit here in the safety of my home, I'd agree with everything Ivanimal did, up to the "let's step outside" thing. But to be fair, I've behaved badly myself in analogous circumstances (skateboarder blocking my car on a public street, flipping me off, and swearing at and taunting me--I could have driven away, but it was a bad day, so, after giving him several chances to get out of my way, we partied). The "better" parts of me think that it's best to give everyone a chance, and maybe spend a little more time trying to talk to the kid (after asking him to turn down the music). But at the same time, when a dude cruises in sporting serious attitude and tunes, he cannot seriously expect to recieve the same respect as someone without those liabilities. And that's a lesson the dude needs to learn.

I think sometimes you've just got to be there to know how to react. I wasn't there, and Ivanimal was. I'm guessing that his "step outside" comment went too far, but, again, I wasn't there.

Just curious: Would your answer be different if the dude was black or white? If it was in a "good" part of town or a "bad" part of town? If it was in a K-Mart instead of a gun store? It's an intriguing question, and I don't pretend to know the answer.
 
12-34hom,

As far as Tamaras comments go = typical

(...)

Other than that, if i or anyone else don't want to talk with someone, a stranger in fact i'm going to let them know it.
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I don't have a problem with that.

However, there's no call to be rude about it, especially when carrying a gun.

Must just be a difference in mentality between the South and those big, flat, square Yankee states. :uhoh:
 
Tamara,

Personally I think Ivanimal acted with remarkable restraint when confronted by a GRC who hadn't the common courtesy to unplug the Ghetto Blaster he was carrying from his ear prior to initiating his inquirey, As to his mode of dress, while having ones underwear on public display might be deemed appropriate in the 'HOOD", the same does not hold true in a place of business. Couple that with the GRCs seeming inability to conduct a conversation using words containing more than two syllables, and I applaud Ivanimal for his ability to limit his actions as he did.

Personally, if you wish to converse with me on any subject, it had best be in English as I respond poorly to Ebonics.
 
I have no problem with kids expressing themselves, differently. SO LONG, as they affect me personally.
It is all about attitude. Anyone who treats me with respect gets respected back.

Some little punk who speaks to me in the manner described does not deserve any respect from me and won't get it.

He sounds as though he may destined to be a prison b'tch in the future unless he grows up.

This particular kid definately has an attitude problem.

A buddy of mine calls this " A Social Defect looking for 3 hots and a cot".




:scrutiny:
 
I'm a little older than Ivanimil but not by very much at all. I have kids in their late teens and early 20's. They don't always act like I want them too. I'm quite sure my parents didn't approve of the way I acted for many years.
That is the way of the world and will be until it spins into the Sun. Seems to me many of the posters have not figured that out yet. When this kid gets older he will say the same thing about the new crop of kids being born now.

From a brief encounter at a gun shop, I doubt anyone could know what this kid was about or judge him. He may have been rude after he percieved rudness directed at him. I have been rude to people that I thought were rude to me in the past. If you haven't you lie.

Relax a little. There are more prescient things to worry about.
 
That must be the difference in mentality between the south and those big fat square yankee states
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Courteous behaviour and respect towards others while interacting and speaking is something all of us should strive for.

As far as those : big fat yankee states : Iowa is Gods country.... ;)

Happy New Year!!

12-34hom.
 
Yeah, sure. I did things my parents didn't approve, everyone did. I did not, however, follow adults around stores and work them into rages worthy of challenging me to fights.


This is not PC, but the truth is that some animals only back down when challenged. Attempts to de-escalate are seen as opportunities. Maybe this kid was one of those and maybe he wasn't, but people are talking as if Ivanimal challenged him to step outside because the kid asked annoying questions or because his DVD was too loud.

That is not the situation as Ivanimal related it. In his account, the child was actually following him around the store and challenging him in a threatening manner. Unless you've dealt with a gangsta wannabe who thinks you're afraid and thinks he's been diminished in some way by your lack of respect, you don't know what it's like. Some of these kids want the world to think they'll fight to the death if someone doesn't genuflect. With some of them, the only way to defuse the situation in a hurry is to make it clear that you will give them what they're asking for if they really want it. This can sometimes cause them to assess whether they really want to fight this guy or just wanted to make a lot of noise.

I'm not saying it's the best thing, but it worked for Ivan. I've had to use the same technique when I had smaller charges in tow and could not have fled. It focused attention on me and away from them, and there was no physical confrontation once priorities were reassessed.
 
I can't fault Ivanaimal for how he handled it. Even calling the kid out wasn't that bad since it was obvious there was about a 99.995% chance the kid wouldn't take him up on it.

Learning that you can't just strut around throwin' your 'tude everywhere is not a worthless lesson.

I also do agree with others who would have tried to "educate" and make nice with the kid. It would certainly have been my tactic, but I'd have to be honest with myself as to my motives.

Were I approached at a gun store by a younger man dressed and acting like that, I would have gotten all giddy and "Gun-Nut Cliff Claven'esque" on him and prattled endlessly about the 1911, John Moses Browing, the .45 ACP, and the army's earlier switch from .38 to Colt SAA's durning the Moro insurgency in the Phillipines... and totaly would have ignored his attitude and music.

In reality I would have really just been passive-aggressively attacking him with a careful mix of talking him to death while ignoring "him" at the same time, all merely veiled in overexuberant gun enthusiasim.

The hope of "reaching" him would have been a very, very, distant second at best. I'd have been prepared to exploit it further if I saw an opeing I could wedge into, but my primary motive would be to bore him, and deflate his ego by pretending to be oblivious to his little display.

Third would be the hope of at least exposing him to the enormous ammount of historical and technical minutia, which would perhaps take the "forbidden fruit" edge off of the "allmighty gun" in his eyes.
 
ok

So this kid accepts your invitation to step outside. One thing leads to another and a battle ensues.

You end up with a law suit, a police record and no concealed hand gun license. If you are convicted, in some states it would be a felony, you would be prevented from owning guns at all, or voting, gee this gets more and more rewarding all the time.

Yep, small price to pay to be the Big Man in the gun shop when confronted by a teenager who may have had some real questions but no tact.

DM
 
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