Gun store loser

[Edward429451]

I read about this incident and couldn't help but get flashes of my youth. No I didn't wear my pants down around my ???, but I remember when I was a little man in a big world and trying to stand as tall as I could, and youthfully stupidly exceeded reasonable attitude bounds and came off crass to people sometimes. Being young is being unsure, but you can't let it show so lets overcompensate and walk like a man. Ah, youth.

At least the kid was asking questions. A lot of kids are so insecure that they know it all and will try to tell you what it is and wont let you teach them. I would've been nice to the kid and talked for a few minutes. No offense, but it almost sounds like the kid intimidated you by playing the tough guy and you called him out for it so kicked in his youthful defense mechanism smart aleck comment on his way out. Walked out like he owned the place...I see that as a good thing.

So the kids got spirit, shouldn't beat on him for it. We need those kids for the future of America. Should'a had a little patience, planted a seed or two of wisdom to help him along. I'm always nice and helpful to the young shooters at the range. Or don't you remember being young?

 

[mummac]

If I was in a gun shop and asked someone how many rounds a gun they were looking at holds and that person told me to ask the sales guy, I would think he was a snob too. Of course, my pants would probably be at an acceptable level and I wouldn't be playing rap music so maybe the person would have just told me "seven, it's a single-stack mag" or whatever. The bottom line is that people are a product of their environment. A person can't change where and how they grew up. People can however change their attitude/behavior. Asking someone to fight isn't a good way to achieve that. I think it would be better to learn about guns and possibly safety from a positive environment like a gun shop rather than some guy down the street with some Sat. night specials in his basement. I'm not saying that it's anyone's responsibility to change the world and who knows maybe even looking at the guy could be a waste of time, but sometimes tolerance is a good thing.

 

[BluesBear]

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

 

[cracked butt]

I guess if a guy wants to learn about guns, he has to wear flannel shirts, tight blue jeans, a giant belt buckle, and listen to country/western music.

 

[Matt G]

Alternate reaction opportunity:

"I guess you don’t wanna talk to me, den."

"It's not that-- it's just that this is the man with the answers about the guns, and he could probably sell you one or tell you about it better than I can."

"Too good to talk to me, huh?"

"Not at all-- I thought that I would give you and the gun salesman some room to talk about the gun, while I checked out the rifles. Also, I must confess that the music you've got playing isn't really my kind of stuff. Maybe I'm getting old. Wanna turn it down, and we can talk guns?"

* * *

Instead, your response to his last statement was to challenge a smaller guy to a fight outside? ("I turned to the young man and said I really had nothing to say to him but if he liked we could go outside and settle his issue any way he liked.") This is NOT the way we need to be projecting ourselves as responsible gunowners.

 

[eatatjoes]

what about this?

I don’t normally judge people that is better left to a higher authority. Today I went into a particularly open-minded shoe store today and was looking over a pair of boots I have been lusting for. The sound of a movie catches my ear as a young adult with his pants half on his ??? comes walking over with a portable DVD playing some rapper video. The question he posed to me was "is dat a pair of timberlans?" I said in my most unnanoyed voice ( I don’t like scaring off a future enthusiast) that in fact they were wolverines and a mighty fine pair at that. He then asked how many sizes it came in. I turned to the counter person and said these are questions for you bro. At this point he says I guess you don’t wanna talk to me den. I said no I don’t work her I am just a customer like you, we are on the same side of the counter. All this time the music or video is still playing and is kinda annoying. I handed the boots back and walked over to the tennis shoe racks for a look see. As I was walking away the guy says "too good to talk to me huh". At this point the store owner says what’s your problem, leave my customers alone and take that noise your listening to out of my store. I turned to the young man and said I really had nothing to say to him but if he liked we could go outside and settle his issue any way he liked. Being that I am 6-300 and in decent (not great) shape he passed. This kid walked out of the store like he owned it. I don’t know where these people come from but a better job of parenting should have been done somewhere along the line.

i see nothing wrong with the way the situation was handled.

 

[redneck2]

Real simple...

I dye my hair purple cause I wanna be different

I wear my pants around my butt cause I wanna be different

I get 900 tatoos cause I wanna be different

I listen to "music" REAL LOUD that I know will annoy the crap out of people cause I wanna be different


so...why don't I get treated like everybody else???

Now, if you wanna be "different" that's your program. I've worked the counter at a gun store. Don't matter how you're dressed...your money's green just like everyone elses.

BUT...give me your attitude, and you'll get attitude back.

Matthew said it 2,000 years ago "As ye sow, so shall you also reap"

 

[mummac]

eatatjoes, I don't know about you, but I generally don't have many conversations in the shoe store. A gun shop is totally different. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Border]

I'm 100% with Tamara et al. There was no point there were you shouldn't have remained courteous. Even if someone was quite rude, the wise, MATURE and safe response is to remain polite. What if this guy was some grade A whackjob? Let's take it to an extreme and say that it escalated to the point of violence-weapons even? Size is not much of an advatage there but let's say you prevailed: "Gee, officer, I didn't like his manners so I basically invited him to step outside and fight and then THIS happened! Wasn't I right in threatening to kick his butt because I didn't like his attitude?!" Please tell me that I don't need to tell you how screwed you would be! You give gun owners a bad name when you are so ready to "get busy" because you don't like someone's way of relating! You give people a bad name actually. Ready to beat a guy up because you didn't like his attitude? Unbelievable! You're not safe to carry if you think every diss, even a significant one, is reason to challenge somebody. In my state you'd lose your carry license if you got involved in a fight that wasn't SOLEY about defending yourself from a direct attack where every witnesses would say that you did NOTHING to escalate the conflict!

 

[eatatjoes]

eatatjoes, I don't know about you, but I generally don't have many conversations in the shoe store. A gun shop is totally different. You're comparing apples to oranges.

i generally do not have conversations with other customers in gunshops. so what? the issue taken here is how one chooses to treat their fellow customer. if you do not wish to speak to someone you do not have to. there is no reason to cop an attitude because someone referred you to the proper outlet for your questions.

 

[StuporDave]

I agree with most here that asking the kid to "step outside" was a bit overboard. At the same time, if the kid dresses/talks/acts like a gangsta/thug/punk why should he be surprised or angry when people treat him like a gangsta/thug/punk?

Dave

 

[BluesBear]

Ivanaimal,

Actually I was right there with you all the way up until you let your mouth overload your ??? with that "I turned to the young man and said I really had nothing to say to him but if he liked we could go outside and settle his issue any way he liked" horsehocky.
At that point you let all of us down.

Being that I am 6-300 and in decent (not great) shape he passed.

Are you bulletproof or just bragging?

This kid walked out of the store like he owned it.

No, but he had taken control of you and your emotions.
Face it, he won, you lost. You should have quit while you were ahead.

And you owe the shop salesman an appology.

 

[Blackcloud6]

"Kill 'em with kindness" my old insurance district manager used to tell me.

When the young man said "I guess you don't want to talk to me den." A good response would have been. "I am more than happy to talk to you about this firearm but could you please turn off the music and treat me with the same respect we both deserve."

I watched a similarincident in a gun store just North of Detriot. The owner and his assitance handle two younones from the city who were looking at pistols and rifles. They were gang bng dressed and showing some of the attitude. The two shop folks treated them politely. But when the two were about to leave, the owner looked them squarely in the eyes and said; "You are welcome to come back when you are old enough to buy and serious about doing so." He didn't raise his voice, act mean or be disrepectful, but he was effective.

Take and hold the moral highground (but don't be arrogant) and keep you rtemper in check.

 

[mummac]

i generally do not have conversations with other customers in gunshops. so what? the issue taken here is how one chooses to treat their fellow customer. if you do not wish to speak to someone you do not have to. there is no reason to cop an attitude because someone referred you to the proper outlet for your questions.

I'm not a chatty person either, but if someone asked me a question and I didn't want to answer it, I would probably advise they ask the clerk not ask the clerk to answer it then turn my back to them. That's pretty rude no matter what kind of pants you wear.

 

[XavierBreath]

You know, on an intellectual level, I have to agree with Tam.

But at the counter I too would have been put off by the kid, and wondered why I was being asked these questions. While I would not have invited him outside, I would not have wanted to play instructor to him either. I may have answered a question or two and refered him to the counterman. Of course, that is what was tried huh? How about answering the questions wrong so he must go to the counterman for advice? How about asking some questions of your own after engaging him in conversation?

I dunno guys, this is a hard one to armchair quarterback. While I welcome most people into the shooting enthusiast arena, I don't think potential criminals help our sport. It's hard to judge a person over the net. I would have had to be there before I would know what I would do.

 

[W Turner]

Except for the "step outside" comment I dont think he handled it badly.

I would not have handled that way, but I wasn't there either.

My perception is kind of skewed on this though b/c I work with kids like this every day and see that most of them have the potential to be decent people, even if they do choose to go out in public looking like $#!%.

Someone mentioned Eminem a while back, but a line from one of his songs kinda fits here:" How can you grow up when you ain't been raised."

Mino

 

[XLMiguel]

OK, civility is the lubricant of society, and maybe someone might have cut this 'kid' some slack, but OTOH, I wouldn't appreciate some [uninformed dweeb] person insinuating themselves into a business conversation, he can wait his turn like anyone else. And God gave you two ears, but only one mouth, because it's twice as important to listen - there might be some benefit in it for you.

Load music - yeah, keen appreciation for noise polution in a commercial environment (NOT). I can sorta handle it a t Tower Records, I don't want to hear it at the gun shop. Inflicting your 'taste' in music on others at volume in public is just plain rude.

Appearance? Should be irrelevant, but as several have pointed out, if you dress like xxxx, and act like xxxx, don't be surprised if you're treated like . . . xxxx

I would like to think I would be polite about it, and I generally don't go around offering to 'adjust attitude by force', but it all depends on the day

 

[ScottS]

I might have stopped before asking him to "step outside," too, but up to that point, let's recap.

1. He claims to have politely answered the first question, and even spoke of not wanting to "scare off a future enthusiast."
2. He referred further questions to the guy behind the counter, and even went so far as to explain "I don’t work her [sic] I am just a customer like you, we are on the same side of the counter."
3. Far from being simply a neophite in non-traditional garb, looking for friendly advice in the store, Gangsta-guy was making enough noise/hassle that the owner asked him to "leave my customers alone and take that noise your listening to out of my store."

Suddenly, Ivanimal is a bad guy for not engaging in some kind of community outreach program. Again, I agree he stepped over the line with the "let's discuss it outside" comment, but I disagree with nothing he did up to that point.

Good job creating a future anti-gun voter, man, my hat's off to you.

I laughed so hard at this I was wheezing. You figure this guy's demographic represents a big voting block, do ya'?

Scott

 

[Bruce H]

6 feet and 300? Does Pizza Hut hide the buffet when you show up? Thying to have a conversation with someone listening to a walkman is irritating. Both of you could stand some decent parenting.

 

[harpethriver]

I agree with Tam-to a certain extent. Ideally it would be great to attempt to reach out to a person like this, however some rationale and common sense must be used to size up each situation. To respond to an "attitude" with an "attitude" may be to invite confrontation, and just might imply that someone other than the young man has a chip on the shoulder. The young man may have indeed sparked a little fear due to his attitude and demeanor-if so, I hope it was for that and not because he was "different". As thinking human beings who are fighting for a cause we deeply believe in we must pick and choose our battles with care. Was this a situation in which there was a possibility of showing a little kindness and maybe getting through to this person? I don't know, I wasn't there. It sounds like this guy didn't make it easy, and I'm not sure how far I would have gone in attempting to help him out. One thing is for sure, I would not have invited him to "settle this outside". Who knows how many of his friends were waiting outside, what weapons they may have had and what their attitude was?It sounds like a confrontation was not only avoidable but unnecesssary. Discretion truly is the better part of valor!

 

[Ivanimal]

Up until the point he started following me and got my defense mechanism going I was playing along. I never said I didn’t like his music I only said it was annoying to have it playing while shopping for a firearm. I don’t particularly like it when someone comes into my place of business and starts telling me all about my products I leave that to the professionals. I was not by any means ignoring him I was letting the salesman do his job. I was minding my own business in a safe place. If this person were to do the same thing in a Safeway store I would have reacted the same way. I don’t like to be accosted and having grown up in the inner city I don’t feel its necessary to have to take it. He was in fact a white male and I am a Hispanic. Changes nothing. If a person goes out looking for trouble that just what he will find. Tammara I respect your views and opinions on this, I feel you are out of line; you weren’t there so I guess you will never know. Once I showed this person I had no fear of them they left me alone. I really don’t like to show that side of me, I have had to use my size before and I feel it is a sign of weakness rather than strength. In a fair fight I prefer it to the alternative. I go well out of my way to introduce people to hunting shooting and outdoor activities. As far as judging this person you decide, I volunteer at a center for recovery that caters to young adults, I have seen people just like him so full of anger then so full of fear. Confusion is no excuse for being a jerk. I really don’t need a great deal of praise to know what is right. Its what you do when no one is looking that makes you who you are. I am OK with that.

 

[Knife_Sniper]

Drives me up the wall, I thought that "lifestyle" had passed. Just think in a few years this young American will be qualified to vote. Jefferson was dead wrong!

What makes you think he cares about anything political enough to vote?
Those who can vote but are stupid, lazy, or a darwin candidate generally dont vote for anything. Its a great system, and it keeps the flak on the ground. Its the system and the system works.

thank god

 

[Smoke]

Just think in a few years this young American will be qualified to vote. Jefferson was dead wrong!

Qualified, yes....but will he?

You never get a second chance to make a first impression.

...and the kid blew his.

I try not to judge people by looks or dress, yes some things annoy me, but I try to overlook them. But someone that dresses as described, won't turn the music down long enough to have a polite conversation, and has an attitude, is not going to get my repsect or attention.

....Ivanimal is a bad guy for not engaging in some kind of community outreach program

WELL SAID! I think with the exception of asking the kid to go outside, Ivanimal handled the situation better than I might have, and acted as he should have.

Smoke

 

[manwithoutahome]

This is one of the reasons all the gun shops have a sign posted that states:

"No one under the age of 18 allowed without parent or guardian present".

And yes, they will check your ID.

It just helps to solve any problems with underage wanna be gang bangers or punks.

M

 

[QuickDraw]

I've re-read this post a couple of times and can't walk away from it without comment.
To accuse Ivananimal of not "takin' one for the team" is way off base.
I challenge those who think that Ivananimal somehow damaged the RKBA by putting this punk in his place,to go to the inner city and recruit for the
NRA,voter registration,etc.............I didn't think so.

QuickDraw