Weapons Possessed by the Branch Davidians

[orangeninja]

I thought this was an interesting read.




SUBJECT: Weapons Possessed by the Branch Davidians
In total, the Texas Department of Public Safety, led by the Texas
Rangers, recovered more than 300 firearms from the Branch
Davidian compound. In addition, a number of live grenades and
more than 300 grenade components were uncovered. Hundreds of
thousands of rounds of ammunition were also seized.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms investigated David
Koresh for conduct involving: the illegal manufacture of machine
guns and the illegal manufacture and possession of destructive
devices. The FBI report provides evidence that the Davidians'
arsenal did indeed include weapons unlawfully manufactured. The
weapons listed include semiautomatic firearms illegally modified
to fire in full automatic mode, as well as grenades and
silencers. All of these weapons were unlawfully possessed.
I hope you find these documents useful as you review Treasury's
report on ATF's role in events at Waco.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

ILLEGAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
Machine guns
The FBI determined that 46 semiautomatic firearms had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode:
22 M-16 Type Rifles
20 AK-47 Type Rifles
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
2 M-11/Nine
The FBI also determined that two AR-15 lower receivers had been
modified to fire in full automatic mode.
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades

The possession of lawfully manufactured machineguns, silencers,
or grenades requires the owner to register the weapon with the
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms. None of the compound's
residents were registered to own such a weapon, therefore it
would have been illegal for them to possess these weapons.
WEAPONS RECOVERED FROM THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND:
TREASURY SUMMARY OF REPORT PREPARED BY THE FBI FOR PROSECUTORS
AND THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

TOTAL WEAPONS RECOVERED
(Including Weapons Mentioned on Previous Page)
FIREARMS
Rifles and Rifle Components
61 M-16 Type and 2 M-16 Lower Receivers
61 AK-47 Type
34 AR-15 Type and 2 AR-15 Lower Receivers
13 Shotguns -- 12 gauge
11 7.62MM FN FAL Type
10 Mini-14 Type
7 37mm. Flare Gun/Launcher Type
6 .30 Carbine Calber US Carbine, Model M1
6 Assorted Rifles
5 M-11/Nine
5 M-14 Type
3 Galil
2 Heckler and Koch SP-89
1 Air Rifle
1 Heckler and Koch MP-5
1 Sten submachine gun

Pistols and Revolvers
23 Beretta
13 Glock
8 Assorted Revolvers
6 Safari Arms
6 Assorted Pistols
5 Sig Sauer
5 Walther
2 Taurus
EXPLOSIVES
Hand Grenades
4 Live M-21 Practice Hand Grenades
100+ Modified M-21 Practice Hand Grenade bodies; the bodies
of these had been threaded and plugged but lacked a main charge
or fusing system.
11 M-69 Practice Hand Grenades; the bodies of these
grenades exhibited indications of attempted modifications.
219 Grenade Safety Pins
243 Grenade Safety Levers
Rifle Grenades
200+ Inert M31 Practice Rifle Grenades.

FIREARMS ACCESSORIES AND PARTS
Silencers
21 Sound suppressors or silencers.
Flash Suppressors
18 Flash Suppressors.
Firearms Barrels
17 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)
8 M-16/AR-15 Type (9mm caliber)
3 M-16/AR-15 Type (.45 ACP caliber)
1 M-16/AR-15 Type (5.56mm)
2 Ruger. 22 Caliber
1 M-60 machine gun
1 12 Gauge Shotgun
1 Taurus, Model 92, 9mm pistol barrel
1 Sig Sauer 9mm pistol barrel
Pistol Slides
1 Sig Sauer Model
Revolver Parts
1 .38 Special caliber cylinder
Bolt Carriers
39 M-16
24 AR-15
2 MP-5
2 AK-47
1 FAL
1 Unknown
Bolts
15 AK-47
7 .22 LR conversion
3 M-16/AR-15
1 FN FAL (1)
Bolt Assemblies
3 M-11/Nine
2 M-16
1 AR-15
1 MAC-10
1 Shotgun
Recoil Springs and Guides
3 Glock
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
1 M-11/Nine
Stripper Clips
29 Stripper Clips
Accessories
6 .22 LR Caliber Conversion Kits
Hammers
31 AK-47
18 M-16
12 AR-15
4 M-11/Nine
2 Sig Sauer
1 Beretta
Hammer Springs
3 AK-47

Buffer/Recoil Springs
36 M-16/AR-15
4 AK-47
Selector Switches
9 M-16
3 AR-15
1 Unknown
Sears
1 M-11/Nine
Auto Sears
8 AK-47
4 M-16
1 FN FAL

Auto Sear Springs
12 AK-47
Disconnects
7 AK-47
1 M-16
Trigger/Trigger Mechanisms/Trigger Housings
17 M-16
6 AR-15
3 M-60
3 M-11/Nine
2 MP-5
2 Sten
1 AK-47
1 Heckler & Koch
1 M-14
1 Smith & Wesson
1 Beretta
1 Shotgun
Ammunition Magazines
289 7.62 x 39mm AK-47 Type
248 .223/5.56mm M-16/AR-15 Type
108 Sten Gun Type
88 .308 Caliber FN FAL Type
72 M-14 Type
61 Beretta Model Type 92
58 .308 Caliber of Unknown Type
28 Ruger Mini-14 Type
22 .22 Caliber
17 UZI Type
16 USAS-12 Type
13 .45 Caliber
11 Glock
11 MP-5
11 Sig Sauer P226/P228
9 Unknown Type
7 .308 Caliber Galil Type
6 Walther PPK
5 9mm Unknown Type
4 .50 Caliber
3 .30 Caliber U.S. Carbine
3 .380 Auto Caliber
2 9mm Smith & Wesson
1 AK-74 Type
1 Grendel
Ammunition Containers
220 Metal Boxes (Various Calibers)
15 Wooden Boxes (Various Calibers)
4 Buckets (Varioius Calibers)
1 Cardboard Boxes (Various Calibers)
Magazine Springs
360 M-16/AR-15
42 FN FAL .308 Caliber Type
35 AK-47
28 9mm Magazine Springs of Unknown Type
15 Unknown
10 M-14
6 M-1 Carbine
3 .50 Caliber
1 Mini-14 Magazine
1 Glock
These lists do not include dozens of other items recovered from
the Compound such as dust covers, extractors, front and rear
sights, gun cleaning equipment, bolt release levers,
compensators, .50 caliber belt links and numerous other parts.

 

[cfabe]

Now THAT was an arsenal, wow.

 

[Darkmind]

Sounds like they had good taste to me.

 

[ny32182]

They pulled all of that from the burn compound?

Surprised it didn't melt...

 

[GoWyo!]

Where are the .50 BMG's?

I've read the list twice and I don't see any .50's listed. I distinctly remember the media and the G-men stating that the helo's were taking fire from .50's in the towers of the compound. Or am I dilusional?

 

[Jim K]

When was that report released? Last I heard BATFE was keeping all the Branch Davidian stuff in a sealed warehouse and would not let any outsider, even the Rangers, near it. The result was that there was no objective evidence that any illegal weapons were in the compound. I am not normally given to government conspiracy theories, but with the "Coverup Clinton" administration involved ("Would I lie to you?"), I wonder if this report can be trusted.

I do note the "piling on" by listing every tiny gun part and by listing guns and gun parts that were and are entirely legal to possess. It is just another version of the "tables full of guns" that Higgins wanted to show on TV to make Clinton happy and get more money and power for his bureau.

Jim

 

[LiquidTension]

After researching the Waco incident for several research papers, I don't put any faith in the government's "findings" related to the incident. After that debacle they'd say anything to try to save face. Watch video from the senate hearings afterwards - they hold up an AK that supposedly came from the compound. The same compound that burned to the ground, and burned so hot that it melted various metal fixtures inside. The AK they displayed was in PERFECT condition, including polished wood and perfect bluing. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

Even if that whole list were correct, it still didn't justify the killing of over 75 people. Tax violations, nothing more.

 

[50 Shooter]

GoWyo,
The .50 BMG myth is just that, a myth.

I'm not sure where it started, probably by VPC or Frankenswine, Bradybunch.... Take your pick.

 

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Well, if these people had guns like that, which only evil people have, the good, never self-serving, government and always honest ATF had perfect reason to go and kill all of those people.

G_d bless the ATF.

 

[CentralTexas]

Try a FOIA request

I don't believe the list, I've never seen any credible evidence of any of the charges yet. A great book debunking the whole thing is "This is not a seige" I think was the title, well documented also
CT

 

[Preacherman]

Errr... I don't think the .50 BMG thing was a myth. One of the FBI HRT snipers at the scene mentioned, in a book he later wrote, that they spotted a Barrett .50 BMG sniper rifle, and mentions that there were believed to be two of them in the Davidian's possession. However, I don't see them listed in the inventory at the beginning of this thread. Wonder if some LE type has a Barrett "souvenir" of the siege?

 

[50 Shooter]

And they never fired any shots in anger either or started the fire.

When they can produce 1 .50 from the compound they might seem to be more credible. Heck from my vantage point I saw Koresh holding an RPG, didn't everyone else?

 

[Diggler]

No 1911's?

 

[feedthehogs]

I'm sure in all ways possible that this list is true and factual, signed Janet Reno.

 

[molonlabe]

And I beleive in pristine bullets too.

And they picked all this crap out of the bulldozed and burned crime scene?

 

[kfranz]

By my calculations, the BD's owed less than 15k worth of taxes, plus a bit for associated licensing fees. Wonder how much the seige set us back, dollar wise?

 

[cordex]

The book Preach is talking about is Cold Zero. Darn fine read.

The scariest thing on that list is the one cardboard box of various calibers.

The events at Waco are a good example of what happens when one group of heavily armed crazies is confronted by another group of heavily armed crazies.

 

[cerberus]

Now were all paying for it.

All us honest firearm owners are now paying the price for all that bad press. Crazy people and firearms just don't make a good mix.

 

[Psssniper]

I dont remember how many people lived at the BD's place but I would guess that if you add up all the guns and divided by the number of people it would only average 3-4 per. Whats the average THR's gun count?? Most likely much higher than the average BD's

 

[WT]

I believe the list is a myth. The defense attorneys were not permitted to review the firearms evidence. They could not bring in their expert witnesses to confirm the accuracy of the list.

 

[HankB]

This is a list produced by the same government that swore up and down no flammable tear gas shells were used on the Davidians.

This stood up until expended flammable tear gas munitions were found in the evidence gathered after the fire.

Some credibility.

 

[mack]

As it stands we will never know if the Davidians really had "illegal" weapons or not -

"Your Honor the defendents were in possession of these illegal weapons - but the defense cannot examine the evidence - just take our word for it."

Kind of like charging someone for forgery but not allowing the defense to examine the allegedly forged document that is the basis of the case against them.


Amazing, but then they somehow lost the front door too.

I remember when it happened and I recall the assertion that the Davidians had 50 caliber weapons - guess not.

I'm not really a fan of the Davidians or their choices - but there were children in the building - families - and one might expect more from one's government than a cheap publicity photo-op lethal force assault to garner publilc support for an struggling agency (when they could have simply walked up to the door - talked - delivered a warrant and taken away anyone they wanted to talk to and then later charged or arrested them) rather than a military style assault on a building filled with innocent women, chidren, and families - followed by an even more disasterous assault by pumping in lethal amounts of disorienting and disabling gas in a confined space with the risk of fire and which ultimately lead to the death of the majority of the men, women, and children. I don't know if the government started any fires or wanted to cause the deaths they did - but I can see why some believe that they did - because it is readily apparent that there was/is a cover-up and attempted whitewash of facts and evidence in the case. All I can say is that the more I have learned about what happened at WACO the more disgusted and appalled I am - still no serious government investigation has ever taken place and no serious independent investigation has been allowed, (through some good people have tried like hell to do so and have gotten access to more evidence than was initally accessible) - as much key evidence has been locked away, lost, or deliberately destroyed.

Sorry for the rant - when the whole thing happened I bought the whole media and government spin on the story - and it took alot for me to begin to see the other side. I just don't abide being lied to very well - by people in positions of public trust.

On the list of weapons - my attempt at a lighter note here - I can't say I like their choice in firearms - too many light to medium size calibers in rifle and pistol and not enough heavier - 45 pistol and 308 or above rifle calibers. Also not enough JMB designs - 1911's, BAR's, Ma Duece's, ect...

 

[JamisJockey]

I'm still confused. Why was the ATF there for a child abuse warrant???

 

[molonlabe]

and one might expect more from one's government than a cheap publicity photo-op lethal force assault to garner publilc support for an struggling agency (when they could have simply walked up to the door - talked - delivered a warrant and taken away anyone they wanted to talk to and then later charged or arrested them)

Or even arrested him in town.

I suspect that is the crux of it and the rest is damage control.

And yes. Child abuse was on their warrant.

 

[Number 6]

I'm still confused. Why was the ATF there for a child abuse warrant???

This is because there was evidence that David Koresh was molesting children in the compound. A fact that is often overlooked in the debate. Why the ATF and not another agency was there I do not necessarily know, but I assume they just assumed jurisdiction because of the weapons violations.