What is the .25acp capable of?

[WestKentucky]

Every .25 I or anyone I know has seen is in the 2" barrel (or close to it) configuration with at least 1/4 of that being the chamber. What could the round do with more room to accelerate? Say 6" or so as the small cartridge capacity is so small it will max out pretty quick. With this being such a tiny cartridge it would be incredibly cheap to reload for and is a good substitute for 22lr in the power and price category. Any good ballistics charts out there for anything more than a pocket rocket?

 

[Bexar]

Beats a sharp stick but not by much. Something about that little bitty rascal in them little bitty pistols is kinda fun to play with. Didn't Browning or Berettatatat build a 4 or so inch barreled pistol?

 

[MedWheeler]

Fun, and little more. But, I want one for some reason, even if it's just a little Raven. I don't know why.

 

[MedWheeler]

(double-tap.)

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I have not seen guns with longer barrels chambered in .25. I have often wondered the same as you if we abandoned the round without fully exploiting it's usefulness but I feel the same about .32

VooDoo

 

[chicharrones]

What could the round do with more room to accelerate? Say 6" or so as the small cartridge capacity is so small it will max out pretty quick. Any good ballistics charts out there for anything more than a pocket rocket?

How about this?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/25auto.html

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/megraphs/25auto.html

 

[wally]

Every .25 I or anyone I know has seen is in the 2" barrel (or close to it) configuration with at least 1/4 of that being the chamber. What could the round do with more room to accelerate? Say 6" or so

The only reason for the .25ACP is specifically to be reliable in the little 2" pistols that .22lr can't. The story goes JMB invented the .25ACP after he couldn't make .22lr reliable in a pistol as small as desired.


If you go to a bigger gun where .22lr can be reliable, the .25ACP won't do anything the .22lr can't and will cost a whole lot more to shoot.

 

[Dframe]

I think the tiny cases' limited capacity would make it difficult to improve on it's performance with a longer barrel. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the calibre. It's just very small. A tiny (very tiny) bit better than a 22 of comparable barrel length but still quite limited. The 25 can be reloaded at about the same cost as other centerfires with perhaps a little savings in the tiny charges of powder used. Jacketed bullets are expensive though, and cast are somewhat hard to find.

 

[wally]

How about this?

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/25auto.html

Yes and compare it to the .22lr table they have as well. Should prove my point that it won't do anything a .22lr will at a significantly lower cost per shot. There is a reason nobody makes "long barreld" .25ACP other than that old, long out of production, 4" Beretta Jetfire (which I've only seen in books).

 

[Deaf Smith]

What is the .25acp capable of?

A serious threat. Threat to do harm.

Like the little NAA .22 revolvers no one USUALLY wants to get shot (meth and heroin addicts might not think that way or care but most folks don't.)

So it's a credible threat. Might even kill the person you shoot.

But the .25 is not a stopper. Low shock power, low practical accuracy, low speed of employment.

And now days with such as the Kel-Tec P32/P3AT, Ruger LCP, Taurus TCP, etc... I think of the .25 more as a curio than anything else.

Deaf

 

[Ed Ames]

I knew someome who carried around a 1950s-era Beretta .25acp on his 20 acres of land. It was a tiny thing straight out of an early James Bond book. He used it to shoot snakes. He killed more than a few, for reasons I never quite understood. I guess he liked rats?

I'll give him one thing: it was lighter and easier to carry than a shovel.

 

[MikeJackmin]

The .25 is no manstopper, but I think that people underrate it nonetheless.

Imagine that you were armed with nothing but a phillips-head screwdriver. Not an ideal weapon, but if you got a few good shots in, you could probably hurt somebody with it pretty bad.

Take a screwdriver and a hunk of good solid 2x4. Set it on the ground and hit that 2x4 as hard as you can a few times, and note the depth and diameter of your holes.

Now shoot that same 2x4 a couple of times with a .25 - unless you're an awfully strong guy, that gun is likely to put your best work to shame.

It's not a stopper, but it's more than people think.

 

[Onward Allusion]

The .25 ACP definitely has the potential of killing. One of the reason the .25 ACP of today is so anemic is that it was invented for tiny pistols back in the day when metal was a bit softer than present day.

As for the size factor, there is no .32 AP out there that is as small, dimensionally as a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket or the variety of clones. Sure, they are heavier than a P32 by 5 or more ounces, but you can stash them anywhere on your person.

Now, if one is a masochist, they can reload .25 ACP for defensive purposes. Out the window are the concerns of "loading your own to kill someone...etc" 'cause no one will believe you. Work up a load with Red Dot or Bullseye and you have the potential of a great BUG in a tiny package.

 

[Old Fuff]

Before World War Two there were a number of European manufacturers (Mauser comes to mind) that offered .25 (6.25mm) pistols made on their regular .32 (7.62mm) platforms. I'm told the attraction was accuracy, not power. In a context of shooting at targets the smaller round might indeed have a purpose.

While normally I'd admit that the .22 LR was a better choice for the purpose, these days when the little R.F. is difficult to find, and expensive when you do, using reloaded .25 ammunition in the right pistol might not be such a bad idea.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

Good point about "uploading" the .25.....I started playing with .32 and managed to get a 1000fps+ 75 gr. flat nose to deliver over 200 FPE out of a sub 4" barrel with not yet getting signs of excessive pressure.

15" of penetration in ballistic gelatine. Not incredible but maybe a bit hotter than most folks would give a .32 credit for and on par with many .380 rounds.

I do wonder what a hot rod .25 might be like? Too bad the Colt 1908 Vest Pocket .25's are so expensive....I might have some fun hand loading as I really find the smaller caliber center fire cartridges to be a lot of fun to reload and shoot.

VooDoo

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

While normally I'd admit that the .22 LR was a better choice for the purpose, these days when the little R.F. is difficult to find, and expensive when you do, using reloaded .25 ammunition in the right pistol might not be such a bad idea.

Yeah, I'm reloading 50 rounds of .32 for less than $6....I can't find any .22 locally at all let alone at <$6 per 50. More cost effective at present to plink with a .25 or .32 I'd think.

VooDoo

 

[Jim K]

Famous last words: "You couldn't hurt me with that little gun, babycakes."

Jim

 

[JN01]

Didn't Browning or Berettatatat build a 4 or so inch barreled pistol?

Is that the full auto version?

 

[pendennis]

There is also the factor, that the longer barrel lengths also provide diminishing returns. That is, after a certain point, the friction with the barrel and rifling actually retards the performance of the cartridge. And without larger capacity with which to experiment, it's unlikely that any type of load could be optimized for a barrel longer than 4", or so.

 

[Plan2Live]

Yeah, I'm reloading 50 rounds of .32 for less than $6....I can't find any .22 locally at all let alone at <$6 per 50.

I picked up 3 boxes of Federal 550 round bulk packs,copper plated this morning. I walked in and there was a whole case on the shelf. $26 per box out the door including tax comes to around 5 cents per round. It's out there, you just have to be diligent.

Sumter, SC about two years ago, bad guy A tried to shoot bad guy B with a 9mm and missed. Bad guy B pulled his Lorcin .25 and shot Bad guy A in the chest piercing his left ventricle. Bad guy A stumbled backwards and ran about 50 yards before exsanguinating. .25 is lethal, just not a DRT round.

 

[chicharrones]

I do wonder what a hot rod .25 might be like?

VooDoo

North American Arms gave that a try a few years ago with a small bottle necked cartridge.
http://northamericanarms.com/25naa-4.html

 

[5-SHOTS]

.25ACP has killed more people than .44Mag. It's not a one-shot-stops cartridge but with the right placement is capable to kill in few istants.

 

[WestKentucky]

The point of diminishing returns seems to be a moot point. Comparing it to 22short or lr is academic on this. Similar capacity, similar charge, similar bullet weight, a little more friction but not a ton more. So since all of these 22 rifles are in the 1200fps range, the 25 should be as well. Hot rod it and you should find 1500 fps easily out of a rifle. Take that back to a shorter barrel in a handgun and you should still be around 1000fps as long as your not in the 2" barrel category in which a portion of your powder leaves the barrel unburnt. 12-16 inches seems like it should be the sweet spot but your encroaching on sbr territory as well as pistol length most don't like (I do, but that's beside the point). A 6" target barrel is common on buckmark, ruger mk_, Neos, sw22a, etc. these all holster well, so why not. Cost is a point but so is availability. Reloading components would be cheaper in the long run if demand rose enough to get more players in component production. A longer barrel or hotter charge (or combo of both) put it on par with slightly larger cartridges and keeps size tiny. As small as most are, in a pocket, a 6" barreled .25 would look like an ink pen next to a wad of keys.

 

[Bexar]

Is that the full auto version?

If I had to ever be in a situation I had to shoot I'd make that little five shot critter have the aggressor thinking he had just been shot by a sewing machine. Plus.25 caliber might be small but five of em add up to an inch and a quarter hole.

 

[Tony50ae]

I have a 25 just to have in my collection. A lorcin at that. Fun little gun to shoot. I agree with a couple others that its main purpose is to threaten severe harm or death to the other person whom you might defend against. Like what was said, most people would rather not get shot, even by a little 25.

I had also wondered what if was loaded a bit hotter and shot in a longer barrel if it would improve performance and by how much? But then a longer barrel means a larger gun and you might as well use a larger caliber. I still think it should have been loaded a bit hotter though.