What is the .25acp capable of?

[PRM]

Vasili Mikhailovich Blokhin, Soviet Major-General who served as the chief executioner of the Stalinist NKVD used a Walther .25ACP to execute 7000 Polish prisoners in April of 1940 (300 per night).

http://www.ww2incolor.com/dramatic/untitled.html

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you're interested in a reloadable .22 (the Holy Grail for many, including Ross Seifried), it already exists -- the .22 Hornet. It can easily be loaded to match .22 LR ballistics all the way up to close to the .222 Rem.

 

[karlthev]

Usually not a "drop 'em in their tracks" weapon---better swing a frying pan but---correct placement will kill....You or Them...

 

[Onward Allusion]

If a company would produce a full(er) sized pistol chambered in 25 NAA with a 4" or 5" barrel, I think it would be a heck of a gun. Imagine 30 mags sitting flush in a duty sized pistol where each round has about 300 ft lb of muzzle energy. While probably not suitable for LE issue, it would make a great house gun. Little recoil and bottleneck cartridges eliminate pretty much all feeding problems - another plus.

 

[gripper]

Or...the same in .32 NAA.... how about a " convertible Stetchkin " concept gun:9x18 and .32 NAA?? And anything else we could brainstorm on??? Sadly, to my knowledge there are no Stechkin parts kits to build up a semi auto clone from...someone please correct me otherwise.

 

[dbmjr1]

I own a Raven, and a few others.

I shoot a fmj over 1 gr of Bullseye out of the cheap ones.

Same fmj over a whopping 1.1 gr in the good ones.

I get some split cases at 1.1 gr.

I found a company that sold a mold, but they went out of business before I could order one. Go figure.

Some shoot a buck shot out of them. I forget, . . . #4 shot? In any event, . . . It's about the same diameter. Roll it in alox before loading.

Beware the little crescent shaped wounds you will incur, on your index finger, whilst loading these critters, on your single stage press.

You can forget metering this small charge in a progressive.

As for it's ability, . . . John M Browning carried one himself.

 

[rcmodel]

The .25 ACP was a much more formidable weapon in 1905 when Browning introduced it, on through the roaring 20's, then it is now.

A belly wound, or 4 or 5, would result in a slow horrific death from sepsis / infection, up until the time the first modern antibiotic, penicillin was invented in 1928 and became widely available some years later.

People knew that, and avoided being shot in the guts at all costs.
With anything.

That's also the reason the .41 Remington Derringer was so feared, even though it was very very weak compared to the .25 ACP.

rc

 

[Swing]

Is that the full auto version?

hehe. Tangentially, I always thought the Italian Lercker would be a kick in the pants.



Alas, finding a transferable is probably pretty darn unlikely.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The .25 ACP was a much more formidable weapon in 1905 when Browning introduced it, on through the roaring 20's, then it is now.

A belly wound, or 4 or 5, would result in a slow horrific death from sepsis / infection, up until the time the first modern antibiotic, penicillin was invented in 1928 and became widely available some years later.

This is a bit off topic, but for those interested, I recommend the Irish Country Doctor series by Patrick Taylor. Taylor, like his protagonist, Fingal Flaharty O'Reilly, trained in the early 1930s, and his books are full of the frustration and hope of doctors in the days before antibiotics, when small infections could be deadly.

His research is very good, and gives you a feel for how dangerous any injury could be in those days.

 

[MICHAEL T]

I like the little 25 I still carry my Beretta 950 or my model 20 Now and then. They drop in pocket of my riding vest very nice. .

 

[Gun Master]

.25 acp

The Mauser 1910 Model has a 4 1/8" barrel, and is probably one of the larger or largest .25's.

I don't know which brand or type of .25, but an elderly man killed an attempting car jacker with one, about a mile from where I'm sitting.

I have a Bauer .25 (stainless steel copy of the Baby Browning), which I think is probably the smallest .25 made. Some people think of it as a "Girlie Gun", but it surely hides out easily, when needed.

 

[Blade First]

I've owned at least a half-dozen Armi Galesi pistols in .25ACP and probably will buy again. Rather than the cast-slide, dangerous trash that was produced here in certain states, the little vest-pocket Galesi is all steel, simple to disassemble if you know the secret handshake, and will actually fire more than one round at a time. True factory mags are scarce, most pistols have cracked grips from over-tightening, but they are cute little buggers.

Would I depend on a Galesi for self-defense? Sure...if that's all I had available. But mostly, I just like them as interesting, historical artifacts. The idea that predecessor pistols were actually used as vest-pocket arms by Italian Army officers in WWII adds somewhat to the cachet. The fact that they work is a real plus.

Could you load a +P round for it for extra performance? Sure...but as other posters have opined, why not upscale in diameter?

Otherwise, a pic thread would be most interesting!

 

[Gun Master]

.25acp capable of ?

hehe. Tangentially, I always thought the Italian Lercker would be a kick in the pants.



Alas, finding a transferable is probably pretty darn unlikely.

Made over a half century ago, only 150 produced, may have been the world's smallest submachine gun.

 

[rcmodel]

My 1967 Baby Browning.
6 + 1 rounds of of hurt.

I don't care who ya are!
Or, your point of view on how uselessly under-powered the .25 ACP round is!

The folks that keep saying that on the internet have probably never shot one into any type of target..

Still a lot better then a sharp stick in your watch pocket!



Next to my old school Nokia cell-phone.



rc

 

[hartcreek]

I worked on a Raven in .25 ACP for a gal that could not afford anything better. After I had it working I tested it against a windshield in a car that I was parting out. The bullet bounced of the windshield. You point one of these at the wrong person you may well be wearing it.

 

[TennJed]

As for the size factor, there is no .32 AP out there that is as small, dimensionally as a Colt 1908 Vest Pocket or the variety of clones. Sure, they are heavier than a P32 by 5 or more ounces, but you can stash them anywhere on your person.

Can't find the height of 1908 but the Seecamp and Masterpiece Arms 32 & 380 are shorter (4.25" vs 4.5") If they are taller than the 1908 it will not be by much. So you can get a 32acp and even a 380acp in just as small a package

 

[4v50 Gary]

Better to hit with a .25 ACP than miss with a 9 mm.

 

[rhinoh]

Years ago I bought, and still own, a Beretta .25, 950. I already owned, and still own, a similar Beretta .22, 21A.

First time I shot the .25 was at a 2x4 from about 20ft. It didn't even go through! I was astounded as the .22 had no trouble doing so.
This was 20+ years ago and I cannot recall what ammo I used, and I knew far less then than I do now about guns. I do recall being rather disappointed.

BTW the sole purpose of buying the .25 was it was about 5mm shorter than the .22- I had a hiding place under a console snap out cup holder that just fit the .25 when the .22 wouldn't quite go in there

 

[kBob]

The Walther PPk was available in .25ACP and I believe the PP as well back when they were new.

The Le Fancais had a longer than normal .25ACP barrel.

That 1910-ish Mauser was .25ACP and the gun a lot easier to hold than even a Raven and the sights while "Mimf" were better than most vest pocket guns.

First gun I ever Concealed Carried was a bernadelli .25 ACP and it was for ages my Dad's CC gun. For a bit I used an Ortgies. Dad sent his Bernadelli along with some chrome from a 53 Ford to his bumper guy unfortunately, but it does make it very 1950's what with the gold trigger and takedown button on an all chrome gun.

Didn't Beretta offer either the 34 or 35 in .25ACP for a bit in the way back?

I seem to recall that some of the European bicycle class revolvers were also in .25ACP.

My favorite .25 ACP story comes from an old girl friend. SHe was bicycling home one evening from work when a guy charged up and knocked her off her bike and announced she was about to be violated, though in cruder language.
She rolled to her back and extracted a Baur Stainless baby Browning copy which she carried with chamber empty and un cocked, pointed it in his direction, grasped the rear of the slide and began straining to charge the little thing. On seeing this the bad guy screamed like a little girl and fled the area....leaving Salli still trying to pull that slide back. She never did get it charged, but it was a 100 percent "stop" as the bad guy went away

-kBob

 

[David E]

Years ago I bought, and still own, a Beretta .25, 950. I already owned, and still own, a similar Beretta .22, 21A.

First time I shot the .25 was at a 2x4 from about 20ft. It didn't even go through! I was astounded as the .22 had no trouble doing so.

What was the barrel length of the .22?

I often read how the .22 outperforms the .25, then we learn the .22 was fired from a 6" barrel, or from a rifle.

A .25 will penetrate a 55 gallon drum easily.

 

[kBob]

RC,

Thanks for posting your Baby in hand and with the phone as it shows exactly why .25s were and are popular with some folks. It is what rattled the brain cells with Salli's story loose. I did in fact demonstrate to her the twisting rock method of jacking back a slide and showed her the advantages of starting with a cocked gun after this. I also talked her into a .38 snubbie (Charter Undercover) for that midnight bike ride home form the produce department.

My preteen daughter looking over my shoulder pronounced your Baby Browning "Cute!" Hmmmm, this week I found a guy on GunBroker making Franzite like grips for the Beretta 21A in colors like pink.... maybe that would get her out at the back stop.......

-kBob

 

[kBob]

PRM,

Interesting thing about the Soviet butcher.

The Soviets produced a .25 ACP of their own for police and security work called the TK. A good bit larger than the Browning designs for .25 Acp but not as big as a PPk.

one assumes they loaded their own ammo for them....unless some Armand Hammer type sold them ammo made elsewhere.

-kBob

 

[BSA1]

[QUOTEWith this being such a tiny cartridge it would be incredibly cheap to reload for and is a good substitute for 22lr in the power and price category.
][/QUOTE]

The 25 ACP is not even close to the power of a 22 LR. Factory 25 acp in short barrel little guns lack enough power to do little serious damage to the human body. I have seen it easily deflected by rib bones and the skull several times. Each time the bullets failed to penetrate and lodged just under the skin. The only reason the Doctor removed it was for evidence by the Police.

Reloading it is near impossible for me. My fingers are just too big and clumsy to manage seating that little case and bullet on my single stage press.

Now shoot that same 2x4 a couple of times with a .25 - unless you're an awfully strong guy, that gun is likely to put your best work to shame.

I did that one time. I shot a ¾” pine board twice. Both bullets completely penetrated the ¾” board. One bullet made a small dent in the 2/4 I had behind the pine board and was laying on the ground. The other bullet penetrated into the 2x4 just far enough to stay in place. Maybe between 1/8 – ¼ of a inch and was easily removed with my fingers. The first bullet was in perfect shape and could be reloaded. The nose of the second bullet was slightly bent.

My 1967 Baby Browning.
6 + 1 rounds of of hurt.

I don't care who ya are!
Or, your point of view on how uselessly under-powered the .25 ACP round is!

Of course there is always that one chance in 100,000 but it is very foolish to rely on it especially in todays age of small, much more powerful guns. One of the reasons so many bad guys survive their trips to E.R.'s in the lack of penetration of the 22's and especially 25 acps.

Your Baby Browning is cute and is a marvel of old world craftsmanship. But “cute” should never be heard when describing a self-defense gun.

On the other hand I have a Seacamp 32 acp with 32 acp Silvertips so there is a strong case for a small gun that simply disappears in the pocket of a pair of shorts in hot midwest summers.

 

[kBob]

This is what Dad's Bernadelli .25ACP looks like after the trip to the same folks that do stuff on his '53's chrome.

-kBob

 

[kBob]

Ortgies on the GO board. Sorry, no idea what the square size is.

Neat thing is it has a grip safety. Once it is depressed though it stays that way until that safety button is pressed again.

A bud insisted on calling it a Orgies pistol and my response was always "Where would you carry it?"

-kBob